Argento's INFERNO

Discussion in 'Euro Horror' started by Grim, Mar 2, 2003.

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  1. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    Well - most posts here are opinions (which you just proferred). To me, it is quite clear that Inferno is one of his best - and that Phenomena is a hunk of steaming crap. You, of course, might disagree - which is very much okay.

    My comments regarding it being a thinking mans film is due to the fact that once I applied some thought to the film, it gained a lot more depth - a LOT more than Phenomena, which frankly was not really worth the initial 90 minutes I gave it the first time around. The imagery in Inferno is extreme, and takes time to absorb. Too many people talk about the colors in Inferno, as though the colors existed just to make things look pretty. There is method in them, if only you could apply yourself. There is a scene midway trough the film - for instance - when the camera follows the voice wave into the ducts. The whole color scheme of that scene is just brilliant - and relevant beyond simple tones. I'm sure someone like yourself has figured this out though ;)
     
  2. EPKJ

    EPKJ Guest

    Not this again! Look, all posts are opinions. Get it? So, it is idiotic to ever mention this. Not all opinions are valid. Your hidden false premise is that they are, which is why you attempt to equate all opinions by repeating a redundant non-essential. Now, it is an objective fact, not an opinion, that Inferno has a weak plot. However, whether or not one enjoys Inferno is a matter of personal taste. Films can be held to objective standards of quality. It is also possible to love a bad film. The problem is that some people can't seem to admit that any film which they like can be bad or even mediocre. So, they want to use the disingenuous argument that everything is just an opinion. Inferno is a beautiful film rendered mediocre by a weak plot. I still love the film.
     
  3. Nasty Nate

    Nasty Nate New Member

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    I just tried to sit through Inferno the other night but I crashed out after an hour. :sleepy: It's definitely my fav Argento flick next to Suspiria though.
     
  4. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    Jesus, what a dope. Against my better judgment I will reply to your asinine response. I really am not surprised to see your pathetic reply - since recently you have made it a habit of fighting with other board members. I guess it's just my turn? Seriously dude, I think you might just need some sex.......

    --Not this again! Look, all posts are opinions. Get it? So, it is idiotic to ever mention this.--

    See - it would help is you showed some semblance of understanding my statement. Then it would not have to be repeated. However, it still has not sunk in. There is dialog, the exchange of ideas, and there is dictating. You're trying to dictate your view; I simply offer an opinion, which you are free to disagree with (half the fun of being here). Trouble is, you're a bit of an ass, and you whine like a little girl should someone disagree. Might work in your part of the world, over here, well, it's just hot air. As others have pointed out on this very board - you just like to fight over petty little things. That indicates a rather fragile ego. But then, that's your problem, not mine.

    To summarize - I agree, it is idiotic to mention it - but then, you're clearly a bit of an idiot, so I think it was pitched just about right. Apologies if I should have aimed lower.

    -- Not all opinions are valid.--

    Complete and utter nonsense. Are you the arbiter who will decide what is valid and what is not? Should be all bow at your feet begging for you to give judgment? You're a little boy with a superiority complex - trust me on this - I doubt if I'll be taking any guidance from someone so clearly afflicted with personal problems. I'm sure the members of this board sit by, eager for you to let them know if their opinion is valid or not. What a chump. Dude, you’re no-one, nothing. You’re a member of this board, just like me, just like everyone else. No more, no less. Your OPINION is no more valid, nor less so. So, if you want to discount some opinions, I guess you’ll have to settle for ridicule.

    -- Your hidden false premise is that they are, which is why you attempt to equate all opinions by repeating a redundant non-essential.--

    I never did any such thing. You just made it up to make some fictitious point. I said that I have an opinion, you have an opinion. Everyone else also has an opinion. I did not assert than ANY opinion is better or more valid than anyone else’s - that is all YOUR thinking. However, regardless of whatever value system you want to apply, on horrordvds everyone’s opinion is valid, whether I happen to agree with it or not. Validity - and my agreeing, are two very different things. When we are talking about our enjoyment of a film, ALL opinions are valid. When we come to facts, that is debatable. But an opinion on the value of a film, can NEVER be fact. It’s an opinion.

    EXAMPLE FOR THE IDIOTIC: “I like this film, it rocks” and “I don’t like this film, it does not rock” – is an opinion, and every opinion is debatable.

    ANOTHER EXAMPLE FOR THE IDIOTIC: “Argento used blue a lot in Inferno” and “Argento used black and white film stock for Inferno” is a disagreement of FACT. Both of these statements are not correct – and therefore, not all views here are equal.

    -- Now, it is an objective fact, not an opinion, that Inferno has a weak plot.--

    BS - utter and complete. I can assure you that I accept that your limited critical abilities do not allow you to see Inferno for what it is. I can even accept that, you might have looked at this film and formed a different opinion - but please don't try to tell me what *I* think of this film. You think Phenomena is a better film - good for you. I think you're wrong. Big deal. Watch what you want, I'll watch what I want. Based on what you’re saying, any film that does not comply to your own defined plot structure (anything linear and American, I suppose) is a “weak plot”. Do you like ANY Italian horror films? If you do (I know you’re going to claim to watch a lot, but to make the comment you made just downgrades just about any Italian horror film I’ve ever seen.) You’d be better off watching something other than US made flicks.

    --However, whether or not one enjoys Inferno is a matter of personal taste.--

    Woo-hoo. An ounce of common sense. And expressing your personal taste is - AN OPINION. There is hope for you yet.

    -- It is also possible to love a bad film. The problem is that some people can't seem to admit that any film which they like can be bad or even mediocre.--

    Huh? As long as you're not talking about me. I have posted several times, for instance, about Pieces - a film I enjoy very much, but is, in every regard, a bad film. Inferno does not, for me, fit into the same mould. You disagree, not only is that okay, but I could give a rats ass. Inferno is not a bad film, not for me. Is for you? Go buy Ice Age and knock your heart out :)

    -- So, they want to use the disingenuous argument that everything is just an opinion.--

    --LOL-- No, YOU are doing that by acting like a complete twat. I never tried to dictate a view to you – but you are to me and everyone else reading this thread. Frankly, you have not demonstrated you have any insight into this film. Do you have any comments of substance to make? Of course an opinion about whether a film is good or bad is just an opinion. What else can it be? Could you EVER get it to the level of FACT? Of course not! It’s an OPINION.

    -- Inferno is a beautiful film rendered mediocre by a weak plot. I still love the film.--

    Your opinion. I do not agree. That's because, for me, you're wrong. Get used to it – for me – you’re WRONG. Not RIGHT. MISTAKEN. You're happy - I'm happy. What's the problem, guv? Did I forget to bow at the altar that is the EPKG?

    Now – I have wasted ten minutes of my life answering your stupid shit. If you can’t just get along with the members of this board, maybe you should double your dose of prozac?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2003
  5. Latency

    Latency Guest

    LoL, I just bought this today and came here to see if anyone had comments on it. Who would have thought it would be the very fist topic on the page! Maybe it's a sign .... muahahahahaha :)

    Anyways, I am a huge fan of Suspiria (the only Argento film I have seen) and am hoping the rest of Argentos work is similar. I will let you guys know what I think after I watch it tonight.
     
  6. Grim

    Grim Well-Known Member

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    My personal fave is Opera, I suggest you atleast rent it or buy the vhs, because you, like many others, might not like it like me.

    Oh, I'm ordering the two Dario Argento collections with Tenebre, Deep red, Phenomena, and Inferno. I already have the one with Demons and Demons 2. The only one I've seen out of the four is Deep red so I can't wait.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2003
  7. EPKJ

    EPKJ Guest

    DWatts, the bottom line is that you posted a long diatribe and said almost nothing. You have essentially denied objective standards of valuation in your post. You deny that an individual must make judgments based on facts. You base your entire argument on the notion that dialog consists of mutually valid assertions made on all sides, which is absurd on the face of it. You apparantly cannot read, as you did not grasp that my complaint about you is that you argue that all opinions are equally valid. I never argued that you claimed one opinion was better than another. That is my position. Yours is the utter nonsense of equally valid opinions. For anyone to argue that Inferno does not have a weak plot is absurd. It does. That is a fact, and not an opinion. Is it just an opinion than Plan 9 From Outer Space has a weak plot? Of course not. Yet, saddled with your logic, one would have to state that it is open to debate whether or not Plan 9 From Outer Space has a weak plot. Stating that a thing is open to debate is to acknowledge that both sides have valid points supporting their respective propositions. This is not always the case, as my example demonstrates. You castigate me for "fighting with other board members", while fighting with me. Thus you stand condemned for doing what you criticize me for doing. This makes you an idiot. I will argue with those with whom I disagree. If you think that inappropriate, then why did you respond to my post? You are just interested in ad hominem attacks and attempting to paint me as a common enemy to others. Next time try actually addressing the issue in dispute. Your long winded nonsense does not impress.
     
  8. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    Funny – I read your reply, but I must have the wrong language pack installed! See, it read like this…..

    Blah blah blah Blah blah blah.
    Blah blah blah Blah blah blah.
    Blah blah blah Blah blah blah.

    I’m surprised you never added a “nana nana boo boo” on the end. :)

    --You have essentially denied objective standards of valuation in your post.—

    Does it make you feel big using mumbo jumbo? Especially when criticizing someone else for saying nothing. Really, it is quite funny. What “objective standards” are you talking about? Enlighten us all – I’m sure the entire board could benefit from an English translation of the words from the mountain of ego that is the EPKJ.

    --You deny that an individual must make judgments based on facts.—

    No I didn’t. But if I say I like a film, that IS a fact, I actually DO like it. It could be the biggest turd of a film, say, like Phenomena, but if I like it and say so – well THAT IS A FACT. If you don’t like it, well that’s a fact too – but it neither invalidates nor takes away from my OPINION, or the fact that I like something. It’s really very simple.

    --You base your entire argument on the notion that dialog consists of mutually valid assertions made on all sides, which is absurd on the face of it.--

    Huh? What is absurd is the idea that your view is any more valid than anyone else’s. You’re no-one, nothing. You are on the same level as every other person on this board, including myself. Not higher, not lower. Your view is no more valid, nor less so, than the views of someone else. Liking a film is personal OPINION, there is no universal description or criteria of why a person should like something. It just is – get used to it.

    --You apparantly cannot read, as you did not grasp that my complaint about you is that you argue that all opinions are equally valid.--

    Huh? I read it. I replied directly to it. YOU failed to read it. Therefore, according to you, *I* cannot read. Seriously, you sound like a Fulci movie. At first I disagreed with you, now I’m beginning to feel sorry for you. I have grasped what you’re saying, I simply don’t agree with it.

    --I never argued that you claimed one opinion was better than another. That is my position.—

    Right (how could you have missed that was what I was saying about you??????)! And perhaps you could get to the point and tell me (and everyone else) why your opinion is more relevant than anyone else’s?

    --Yours is the utter nonsense of equally valid opinions. For anyone to argue that Inferno does not have a weak plot is absurd.—

    My mistake. You are the God here – only your opinion counts. We’re all minions who should have waited for you to call down from the heavens and tell us what to think. –LOL-- Serious ego problem here. I am not in a position to posit my views against those of someone else – I merely have an opinion. It is you that wants to put a hierarchy in the range of opinions. Perhaps you could explain to everyone what the hierarchy is – just so we know where we fit (I will assume you’re at the top of the tree).

    --It does. That is a fact, and not an opinion.—

    Wrong. Not worth explaining why. You have offered no evidence to the contrary other than simply saying the plot is weak. Most every film released today has a weak plot – but the plot does not define a movie. I find the art of cinema to be a tad deeper than that. You’re welcome to your one-dimensional view though.

    --Is it just an opinion than Plan 9 From Outer Space has a weak plot? Of course not.—

    Are you confusing threads? I’m talking about Argento’s Inferno – you seem to be confusing it with something else.

    --Yet, saddled with your logic, one would have to state that it is open to debate whether or not Plan 9 From Outer Space has a weak plot.—

    No – I have not said a word about plan 9. What logic are you talking about? Better critics than I have analyzed Argento films and found a lot of imagery I missed. Not read much about Plan 9. But really, it is not relevant here – it’s a red herring. Nice try though, bud.

    The problem seems to be one of two things: 1) You seem to want to talk in absolutes, which is complete nonsense. 2) You don’t know what a paragraph is, and what it is for.

    --Stating that a thing is open to debate is to acknowledge that both sides have valid points supporting their respective propositions. This is not always the case, as my example demonstrates.—

    Why? Because you have already made up your mind, and therefore everyone else must make up their minds and agree with you? --LOL-- Honestly, I see no evidence that you know what you’re talking about – why would I listen to you? In this case, both sides DO have valid points. I have no problem accepting that - you do.

    --You castigate me for "fighting with other board members", while fighting with me.—

    Erm – well, the alternative is to let your bag of hot air stand as fact. It is not fact – and you have the argument of an infant mentality to make your case. I’m not fighting, really, just letting you know what a vapid perspective you have – and that as far as I’m concerned, nothing you could write would change my mind. I think the short form is – “dude, you’re full of it, and you’ve been found out.” But really, I could give a fig.

    --Thus you stand condemned for doing what you criticize me for doing.--

    Thus? Thus I stand condemned? :) And whom is going to come knocking on my door to burn me for witchcraft? Thus I stand condemned? You’re nothing, no-one. Hate me, dislike it – condemn me. Both here and elsewhere on this board you have shown yourself to be a pompous windbag. But condemn me if it makes you feel better. Thus, I am silenced :)

    --This makes you an idiot—

    Woo-hoo! This from the man whose opinion, I have been clear, means nothing to me. That cuts right to the quick, my friend. I seriously doubt I’ll be able to sleep tonight now. Bummer.

    --I will argue with those with whom I disagree. If you think that inappropriate, then why did you respond to my post?—

    I have noticed that. You argue. I’d prefer to debate, to have an exchange of views. But twats like you must argue. Why? Because you are insecure about your own views. So insecure are you – that you must argue with anyone who disagrees with them, trying to force them to agree with you. Me – I’d rather say, we have a different opinion.

    Mind you – if this is your version of arguing, aren’t you concerned that you might make yourself look like a screaming three year old?

    --You are just interested in ad hominem attacks and attempting to paint me as a common enemy to others.—

    Well, it’s fish in a barrel, isn’t it? Oh, and did I mention that everyone loves you here, man. They can’t wait, every day, for you to log on and tell them if their opinion is valid or not. We all slosh around in this big fish tank of a web site, just waiting for master fish to come and bless our words, and to turn opinion into fact. It’s like turning water into wine or some shit like that – same thing! That’s just brilliant! Bravo! You turn your own uneducated opinion into fact that we must all agree with, or we’re half-wits. Thanks man - I, and I am sure everyone else, loves you for it. Seriously. No shit.

    --Next time try actually addressing the issue in dispute. Your long winded nonsense does not impress.—

    Oh shit. You’re not impressed. Shall I go sit at the back of the class, facing the corner with a big pointed hat on then? Impress my ass. I’m not trying to impress anyone, all I’m saying is – all opinions on the value of a film are valid. That isn’t hard is it? Well, except yours, because you’re a blowhard who only posts here for the sake of arguing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2003
  9. EPKJ

    EPKJ Guest

    This is really quite hilarious. Why don't you try explaining why you believe that Inferno has a strong plot? That is what you claim, isn't it? Instead of addressing the issue, you post another lengthy and nonsensical diatribe. If you don't know what words mean, try a dictionary. You prove yourself an idiot with the following:

    "No I didn’t. But if I say I like a film, that IS a fact, I actually DO like it. It could be the biggest turd of a film, say, like Phenomena, but if I like it and say so – well THAT IS A FACT. If you don’t like it, well that’s a fact too – but it neither invalidates nor takes away from my OPINION, or the fact that I like something. It’s really very simple."

    Pay attention! I never said that one's like or dislike of a film was open to debate. I stated that the quality of a film is separate from one's enjoyment of a film. Apparantly this concept is too deep for you. I understand that you like Inferno. It still has a weak plot, whether you like it or not. Your enjoyment of Inferno will not make its plot strong. In other words, your wishing a thing won't make it so.
     
  10. betterdan

    betterdan Guest

    At the sake of upsetting someone I also liked Inferno better than phenomena:lol:
    oops sorry about that darned smilie:D damn did it again...
     
  11. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    Mr. EPKJ - you have said nothing about this film. I can only repeat, your view ain't but a mosquito bite on the ass of a cow. If you want to know about Inferno - go read about it. I neither say I'm right or wrong - only that your dictating one way or the other makes you a pompous ass. I think that's about settled now.

    If only I could get you to understand paragraphs. They're really quite neato burrito. The fact you find them impossible to use further illustrates your ignorance. Thus – you are condemned.


    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    :banana:


    ps: Betterdan - EPKJ wil be getting back to you real soon - to let you know if you have the right to feel as you do. Probably not, but only God can say. :lol:
     
  12. betterdan

    betterdan Guest

    I hope he says I have the right to feel this way dwatts. I really really do:rolleyes: :lol:
     
  13. EPKJ

    EPKJ Guest

    Well, it is nice that your boyfriend has joined you in acts of sheer stupidity. I have said that Inferno is a beautifully photographed film with a weak plot. That is something. You, on the other hand, have just stated that you won't say whether you are right or wrong. This makes you an idiot for arguing the matter. Now, you and your boyfriend betterdan can go play with one another.
     
  14. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    Oh crap - you mean you're breaking up with me, dude? I don't remember giving you permission to do that. Thus, you are condemned. :glasses:

    ps: And please don't talk about my new boyfriend like that - it makes you look very jealous - makings of the green eyed monster there? You knew I was a pig when you met me, after all.

    Pps:

    --I have said that Inferno is a beautifully photographed film with a weak plot.--

    Christ, after that deep analysis what else can anyone say? I mean, what can you add? I mean, it's like beautifully photographed (albeit with a camera that makes MOVING pictures). On just about anyone’s scale, it's like, all beautiful and shit.

    And then the plot, I mean, it's weak right? That's like, well, summing it up in like, just a few words. On the other hand, those words say a lot! I'd say, what those words mean is - well - this film is like, beautifully photographed, and it like, has a plot that is, like weak and shit.

    I know I owe you a lengthy discussion of why I disagree, but well, your analysis is so well thought out - I'm speechless. No - really. Those few words counter anything I, or anyone else, might say or feel about this film. You convinced the crap out of me, dude. With those words, you've changed my opinion, like, totally. I’d have to say, without hesitation –Inferno is, well, beautifully photographed and all that – but, well, the freaking plot is weak. Game over. Done. No doubt.


    :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2003
  15. betterdan

    betterdan Guest

    EPKJ so do I have your permission to feel that Inferno is better than Phenomena or not? :lol: Your opinion or as you say facts mean soooo much to us here on the boards:rolleyes: I don't know how we ever watched movies and figured out which ones were better until you came slithering onto this board. You are truly GREAT.:eek2:
    Now let's kiss and make up. You can start with my ass:D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2003
  16. _pi_

    _pi_ Peace, bitch

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    Not that I want to get involved in this "arguement" between EPKJ and dwatts, but my god ... this is perhaps the most pointless, vapid forum-arguement I've ever read ...

    Inferno is great. Like all of Argento's films, it just keeps getting better every time I see it. Even Trauma and Phantom improve on repeated viewings!
     
  17. Cydeous

    Cydeous Axxon N

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    I agree about "Trauma" but "Phantom" sucks! There's no way that anyone can think that it has any redeeming qualities whatsoever. Just kidding! :p

    I love Argento and "Inferno" in particular. I think that its stroy is deeper than what is actually on film. Alchemy is supposed to be hidden and alchemists don't talk (silentium) about their "religion". Argento hints at it with his wandering camera movements, hidden spaces, and his obvious portrayal of Fulcanelli (a true alchemist who's true identity is unknown). Anyway, "Inferno" is pure genius and it gets better with each viewing.
     
  18. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

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    Hmmm...I've only suffered through Phantom twice. Trauma I've given at least 4 viewings, and it hasn't gotten any better. I've even read the script, which has many scenes that were eliminated, and it still doesn't work for me.

    That's real interesting (as we try to steer this thread back onto the merits of Inferno...). I have to admit, what I DON'T know about alchemy could just about fill the Grand Canyon. But I've always gotten a "hidden" and "secret" vibe about Inferno, and now that someone mentions that those are crucial elements of Alchemy, it starts to make even more sense...
     
  19. Latency

    Latency Guest

    okay, finally got a chance to sit down and watch Inferno for the first time.

    Good-bye Suspira and welcome Inferno. Inferno is my new favorite italian horror flick. Argento did amazing things with this film. I think partly due to the fact that the Bavas helped him with it. But damn this movie was brilliant. The atmospere was superb and the death scenes (especially the rat scene) were nail biting! I know alot of you didn't like the score but I thought it fit the movie perfectly. I loved the score so much that I ripped it from the AC-3 audio stream via DVD-ROM and converted it to mp3 :)

    Anyways, just wanted to give my 2 cents ... my 2 cents being THIS MOVIES KICKS ASS! :)
     
  20. Latency

    Latency Guest

    Some need multiple viewings to like this movie ??? C'mon guys, this movie is a work of art :) You can tell alot of blood and sweat went into it.
     
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