Black Christmas (1974) vs. Halloween (1978)

Discussion in 'Reader Polls' started by vampyr789, Dec 26, 2008.

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Black Christmas (1974) vs. Halloween (1978)

  1. Black Christmas

    17 vote(s)
    31.5%
  2. Halloween

    37 vote(s)
    68.5%
  1. dave13

    dave13 Well-Known Member

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    i haven't seen black christmas in a few years, but could it be that halloween seems to have lost some of its punch simply because its been seen by the general public more often than black christmas? if black christmas had been sequelized to death while halloween was slowly forgotten about by mainstream filmgoers, only to be "rediscovered" every few years by a new generation of fright fans, perhaps the perception would be reversed. I'm not saying black christmas is obscure by any means, but its definitely something that people outside of the genre are not terribly familiar with.
     
  2. Body Boy

    Body Boy Well-Known Member

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    I knew Halloween would win this poll. It was inevitable.

    But as much as I love both films, I think Black Christmas easily takes the cake. With the exception of the main characters, Halloween's acting in comparison is cheesy and average. The score dies in impact, probably due to the sequels, but still...BC's music is just darker and more effective. Black Christmas develops extra characters, where Halloween has...Laurie, Loomis, and Michael. I love Lynda, but she, Annie and Bob are so plain. In BC, we have the crude drunk, who is actually quite hilarious. The ugly best friend, who can't cry worth beans but still manages to make us feel for her emotion. And the abortion storyline tops anything the people go through in Halloween. Halloween is so serious, it actually gets boring. BC's humor doesn't detract, but enhances itself.

    But...I'm going to stop myself here, because really...it depends on the viewer. And I think it's better to debate posts that are shorter. Hehe, bring on the hate. :p Bah!
     
  3. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    But wouldn't you agree that Halloween pretty much invented most of those cliches? Therefore, if people laugh at the film just because of the imitators running those cliches into the ground, their opinions can pretty much be disregarded entirely? I mean, if we're going to talk about how people today see horror- none of the young people really like Dawn of the Dead, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Evil Dead, The Hills Have Eyes, Black Christmas, Suspiria, or any number of classics. Why? Because they've dated. Anybody can laugh at anything they want, out of context. Maybe they're just using what has been accepted as horror by today's standards to insult films from earlier eras. I don't care what kids today think of the 70's and 80's in horror. Just like I don't expect people to care about the fact that I clearly don't appreciate the classic era of horror as much as I should. I admit that I'm biased and that I think horror peaked in '68 to the mid 1990's and then went downhill. So I could say Bava and the Universal classics and Val Lewton and Hitchcock and Hershell Gordon Lewis and Peeping Tom and Night of the Living Dead have lost much of what made them effective. But would I be right?



    It's smart of you to bring up The Last House on the Left. I agree it's out of place. But I honestly think now it does make the killing and brutalization scenes more shocking, even if viewers cringe every time the cops come back on the screen. Plus, the movie was only 84 minutes. Take the cops out and you don't have a feature-length movie anymore. You don't have a movie at all, then. Black Christmas is about 98 minutes and the degree to which, for example, Clark was probably pissing his pants and drooling all over himself over these stupid jokes while making this movie is because it is in fact, far more juvenile than Last House. It isn't amusing to me. And I know for a fact that it's not amusing to other people I've watched the film with.

    They also hate the ending and are not as impressed with the film overall than they are with Halloween. I've also found people outright dislike Black Christmas with a passion. Just cruise on over to The Horror Debate (. com) for a mere taste of how that film has paled for people in ways Halloween has not. In fact, I'll link ya right to the review.

    And just so I don't have to repeat myself - the point is: I don't agree with them when they talk down Black Christmas (unless they share my same observations). So, why would I trust anyone when they say Halloween has lost anything?



    Matt, you're very smart. Which is why it almost amazes me when you turn in such a clueless response. (Have ya even bothered to re-watch Henry yet?)

    There is no progression. There's no "slowly" about any of this guy's calls. One call is, "lemme lick it," and a very concentrated, "I'm going to kill you." All the rest are the same high-pitched squealing and screeching "where's the baby?! baby all right, mommy" nonsence. One call is done with no regard for who is calling. It's all about the girls. Clark wasn't even thinking about how he was portraying the caller. So, it defies the character of the completely insane person who is calling as the family during whatever Agnes-baby crisis is going on in their head. The first call is of a completely different nature. It's manipulative and goes against the story. It's abusive of the audience. And I found it extremely distasteful, especially since it's paired with that shot of all the stunned girls' faces.

    Your example at the end of that post is all the more clueless. For the fact that this doesn't take place in a Convent, the girls' faces in that shot couldn't be signaling any more purity or doe-eyed innocence.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  4. Kim Bruun

    Kim Bruun Resident Scream Queen

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    Halloween by a hair or two. Black Christmas is excellent, permeated by an atmosphere of dread, but Halloween sustains the suspense longer in its finale, and it gave us Michael Myers, probably the creepiest of the iconic slasher villains. Halloween also has one of the best themes in horror, scratch that, film history.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  5. maybrick

    maybrick Well-Known Member

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    Anybody who thinks Halloween is completely serious and without humor is simply not seeing the same movie that I am. There's a ton of intentional humor in HALLOWEEN, it's just not an "in your face", stupid type of humor like fart jokes or having a character who is obviously meant to be comic relief. What about Annie's snarkiness or when she gets stuck in the window? What about Linda's continued use of "totally"? How about upon the discovery of a dead dog in the Myer's house Dr. Loomis dryly comments "He got hungry"? There's a lot of other moments, too, and I don't think any of them have to do with the film being dated or the script being poorly written. They're supposed to be funny and if modern day audiences still laugh at those parts then that's great.
     
  6. spawningblue

    spawningblue Deadite

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    I went with Halloween. Michael Myers as an icon is one of the best killers out there, and the franchise itself is one of the best horror series of all time. John Carpenter's direction is perfect, even if the film itself isn't very scary. Oh, and the music is great, even if it has lost its edge over the years, and has been heard way too many times to make it scary anymore. Hell, they even played it too much in the first movie.

    Black Christmas is definitely the scarier film though. There are still some scenes in it that while watched alone make the hairs on your neck stand up. My girlfriend won't even watch it, where as she watched Halloween and didn't think it was scary at all. The calls are just downright creepy for their realism. Crazy people aren't meant to make sense, but if someone called yelling profanities at me, I would probably be a little weirded out, especially because it doesn't make sense at all. Michael Myers has just become an icon next to Jason and Freddy, that I love mind you, but because of that it's hard to find him scary anymore. Black Christmas is the more effective film, but Halloween has a place in my heart as an icon and a slasher series favourite.

    As for people's opinions that Black Christmas doesn't work because of it's humour, are you guys on crack!? It's realistic! Sorority girls would be, and are, like that! Do you think all girls are prissy Brady Bunch type, no! I don't want to get into name calling, but DVDFanatic, wow... sometimes you just kill me! Do you live in a box? The humour is not out of place, it's there because that's probably what a sorority house would be like. And as for they offensive dialogue from the killers calls. He is crazy and messed up. He is just trying to be offensive and scary and I think it works on many levels. If a bunch of young girls got a phone call like that I'm sure they would be shitting bricks! The humour works on all levels because it's true to heart, realistic, and yes, funny! It's too bad you or any of your friends find it funny, it's probably because you guys are LAME! I'd hate to see how you guys have a good time. Pass the tea and crumpets please...
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  7. Body Boy

    Body Boy Well-Known Member

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    I do catch the humor, and find it quite amusing. "Totally" Lynda is classic.
    The who needs their books or not thing feels like filler, but it's part of Van der Klok's personality. "Lonnie, get your ass away from there..."
    There's a lot of funny things, but I do find...hmm...maybe I shouldn't have said it's 'so serious.' I should have just said that it's 'dull' in my opinion. My bad. Especially my bad since I love dark horror films the best, so spiking it for being serious is not a complete thought. I'm siding with Halloween just not being my personal 'Halloween' at this point.
     
  8. thrashard76

    thrashard76 Guest

    Halloween
     
  9. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    I disagree. I think Freddy Krueger is far creeper. He's so disgusting that if real- I doubt it would be easy to look at him, he has a sexual vibe about him and physically he saunters a lot, he was a child murderer and potential pedophile before he was killed, he invades your dreams and can get inside your head, he can be seen hiding in peoples' bedrooms, he digs around in your past and manipulates your perception of reality, and his voice is sonically irritating. Overall, all things considered- he's much creepier.
     
  10. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Krueger STARTED OUT creepier, but he quickly lost his sense of imposing fear as he began to get very smart-mouthed. I found it took away from his persona, and made him a joke. (In the original, though, FUCK he was one creepy bastard.)

    ~Matt
     
  11. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    Okay, point taken. However... Compare him to Chucky.

    Tell me what you come up with. ;)
     
  12. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Chucky's a doll. No comparison. Barbie could fucking beat his ass. :D

    ~Matt
     
  13. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    I'm talking about his dialogue. Which one was used more for comic effect?

    And for that matter- what about The Leprechaun? And, Wishmaster? Compared to all of them, Freddy was much more serious and creepy.

    I dunno. Guess you just have to think about it. :p
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  14. Cardiac Tom

    Cardiac Tom Guest

    Black Christmas for me...No heavy reasoning...I just prefer it over Halloween...

    I do like Halloween as well and recognize it as an important film in the horror genre...Overall, I really think it suffers from overexposure though...
     
  15. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know I was just being an ass, but nah I agree. Krueger was one of the most terrifying killers ever put on screen. He is (or was, in the original) the sole definition of "sinister".

    ~Matt
     
  16. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    And Barbie would be too busy talkin' on her car phone to even recognize Chucky's existence. I imagine she'd run him over. But he'd survive.



    Overexposure?? Is that something to do with photography? Cameras?
     
  17. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    What I find with Halloween is that many people are too afraid to pinpoint its faults. It's not a perfect film, but so many people say the movie is great while they know nothing about it. It's as if they do it because others say its good. They just go along with it. By no means is Halloween a bad film, it's an absolutely brilliant film, but there are many people who say it is while really not knowing why. (If you asked them, they probably wouldn't be able to back up their opinion.)

    One guy at my work: "Oh man, that new Halloween movie was fucking great!"
    me: "Well, it's a remake. It's not nearly as good as the original."
    guy: "....yeah the original was...like, SO much better, though..."

    :rolleyes:

    ~Matt
     
  18. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    Same could be said about any number of older films though.
     
  19. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely.

    ~Matt
     
  20. Cardiac Tom

    Cardiac Tom Guest

    No...think about how many releases there are...how many Top Lists of Horror Pop Culture it is on...that kind of thing...it is just everywhere and everyone knows what it is, whether they are horror fans or not...
     

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