Chaos vs Roger Ebert

Discussion in 'General' started by KR~!, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. MrVess

    MrVess Guest

    Why in heaven's name did Roger Ebert willingly step in something apparently resembling the dog pavement surprise, but made by organisms much less intelligent, productive and useful than dogs?
     
  2. RyanPC

    RyanPC Guest

    I think he means that today is really no more violent than the 70's. Violence has existed far beyond the birth of film... it is one of the most primitive actions we as humans can take, if you think about it. I support films like Last House on the Left and I Spit on Your Grave because their messages are simple: we live in a violent world and no amount of sugar coating can change that.
     
  3. Cydeous

    Cydeous Axxon N

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    I don't think that's what he meant (see his last post). However, I agree with you guys about the art imitating reality but LHOTH and ISOYG both have "happy" endings. Anyway, I don't think that Ebert meant for the film to be like that but he just stated that there was no point to it. His comment only said that if our world has become as grim as that movie then we need artists, ..., to help us cope with it all. I don't think he meant to say that we should be watching Disney but said that the filmmakers have a responsibility to help us realize something in all this crap. After all, a movie that only shows one aspect of life with no alternative really doesn't have much to say.

    I haven't seen the movie. It sounds like it's pretty bad. I'm not even completely agreeing with Ebert, by the way, but I do believe that the statement in question is valid.
     
  4. RyanPC

    RyanPC Guest

    Yeah, I guess you're right. I really shouldn't comment on the movie until I've seen it. ;)
     
  5. Agentsusp

    Agentsusp Member

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    I think the biggest thing that makes this movie suck is that it appears to be a blatent (and not very good) retread of Last House.
     
  6. CubeOfTheDead

    CubeOfTheDead Member

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    And Last House on the Left was a blatent retread of The Virgin Springs. So saying it sucks because its a rip off Last house isn't justified.
     
  7. SaviniFan

    SaviniFan I Have A Fetish

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    It's justified when the director is passing off as wholly origonal.
     
  8. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    --However,I should point out that he is taking a risk in loudly denouncing a picture like this,because that will often encourage rather than discourage people to see a picture--

    I don't think it's the job of a critic to either make people see a movie, or not. I don't even think that is what Ebart was trying to do. He's just giving his opinion is all. While that might influence some people, I also think there are a lot of people who are just itnerested in what he thinks, because they respect what he says, without it defining what they do and do not watch.

    The win here is that Ebert seems to have thought it through, whether we agree with his words or not. The filmmakers in this case just don't seem to have much to say of any weight.

    Now, I don't think a film has to offer any salvation or hope. This point of view seems to be taught in film study courses these days and then held up as an absolute - as though a film MUST offer this or its flawed. Chaos is, at the end of a day, a horror picture - and it's more in the vein of a Toetag film - by the sounds of it - than a Universal Horror or some such. If I totally follow Ebert's line of thinking, then films such as the Guniea Pig series would also be brought into question. Yet i think those have "value" - albeit not a moral value.

    Spectacle has been part of cinema since the beginning. An spectacle has become a dominant feature in much cinema these days - with effects becoming easier and cheaper to do. If I take, for instance, War of the Worlds, the spectacle was the only bit that worked - because when Spielberg tried his hand at human emotion he portrayed it in the same fashion as a 1950's soap opera. Is it, therefore, a better film? I don't think so.

    So Chaos sounds like spectacle, dark, brooding and mean spirited. Sure usually we're used to these films have a more predictable structure - we EXPECT some way out - but if it doesn't come maybe we should deal with the film in those terms. Of course, this still might make it a bad film, I guess we'll all see when the DVD hits.

    I reckon Ebert is great, and we're all talking about it, so it's all good.

    As I said, by the sounds of it this film is similar to the ToeTag films. What pissed me off about those was that the filmmakers apparently cared nothing about movie-making. I'm hoping the filmmakers of Chaos arn't only trying to make us puke. We've seen a lot, after all, and it's unlikely to work....
     
  9. KillerCannabis

    KillerCannabis Slow, Deep & Hard

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    Its a review and follow-up like that that makes me respect Ebert. The man knows good film and Chaos sounds to be just the opposite of that. De Falco sounds like a mongoloid devoid of any insight into what makes a film work. The lines he was reported to be shouting out during the recent screening only reinforce the fact that he's trying more to make a "shocking and brutal" film than a good horror film with some brains. I'll admit I want to see Chaos, but only so I can (more than likely) jump on the bandwagon of those who want to see De Falco make a good film, not a half assed ripoff with no intelligence.
     
  10. Agentsusp

    Agentsusp Member

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    At least Last house did something different with Virgin Spring (ie updating the setting etc). This looks like a blatent rip, right down to that still included in the Ebert pience looking just like a similar famous still from Last House.

    I don't really think the filmmakers (and I hesitate to use that word) can really defend this movie at all. It not only looks like garbage, it looks like wholy unoriginal garbage. I love when people try to pass of complete derivitive filth as some sort of art.

    I'm totally with Ebert on this one.

    This looks like a total shit sandwhich.
     
  11. SaviniFan

    SaviniFan I Have A Fetish

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    I just want to go on record again in saying that this film isn't total shit. It is just fucked up that Defalco hasn't given credit where it is due. He always trys to play it off as a completely origonal idea. He needs to lay off "the most brutal film ever" schtic too as I know for a fact I and most on these messageboards have seen worse. If he want's to get the respect of fans he needs to be a bit more straight forward about what it is he is bringing to the table, not sell it to us like we are a bunch of morons.
     
  12. allmessedup

    allmessedup It's beer time.

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    It still doesn't sound much different than a lot of the hype surrounding the cannibal films. CANNIBAL FEROX, for example, wasn't exactly the most original film in the world.

    I generally don't expect originality in most horror films--I think most horror fans have this magic period where they first see all their favorite horror films, and for the rest of their lives they try to find movies that bring back those memories. So I don't really care if a movie is original.

    So many of the most beloved horror films were ripoffs in one sense or the other that it'll be hard for me to hold that against CHAOS, no matter how blatant.
     
  13. Erick H.

    Erick H. Well-Known Member

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    Certainly,you have some valid points ,Dwatts,in the end,no review will stop me from seeing a film that I'm truly keen on seeing.It just seems to me that Ebert had a particularly visceral reaction to this film and has,willingly or not,been drawn into a debate with the director who will almost assuredly use Eberts' response to promote the very film that Roger Ebert has decried.Ebert's job was to review the film,he's done that.Getting sucked into a public debate with the director of CHAOS is just gonna help sell tickets to a film Ebert wanted to warn us away from to begin with.Like a lot of recent horror pics,the film sounds rather unimaginative on the surface(I can't review it,I haven't seen it),if it truly is a total steal from LAST HOUSE,then maybe the man to step into the fray is Wes Craven(or even Bergman).Ebert is meant to provide a professional criticism,he shouldn't be getting into a personal(and public) debate,it can only bring attention(and patrons) to a picture that would likely disappear if he didn't bring attention to it.He's just giving the movie free advertising.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2005
  14. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Craven has said nothing about this film, right? One wonders why. In this day and age where lawsuits seem to fly back and forth, why no mention of concern here?
     
  15. SaviniFan

    SaviniFan I Have A Fetish

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    Lo and behold, an excellent review at monstersatplay.com:

    Chaos Review @ Monstersatplay.com

    DeFalco is an ass and should apologize to the horror community....'nuf said. :fuck:
     
  16. old-boo-radley

    old-boo-radley They stay the same age...

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    Imagine if all horror films were original... we'd have a wide array of films. About 20! ;)

    Needless to say, Night Train Murders is also a very close rip-off of LHOTL and it is generally considered (and is) quite good.
     
  17. CubeOfTheDead

    CubeOfTheDead Member

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    The first insult is found on the film's poster, with a credit that reads, "based on an original idea by ...",

    This made me laugh. Who the hell puts that on a poster, even IF the idea is original. I think the director's trying to be an asshole.
     
  18. zombee

    zombee Guest

    Chaos vs. Roger Ebert?

    My moneys on Roger Ebert.
     
  19. KR~!

    KR~! The Apocalyptic Kid

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    Great review, I want to post the intro, people can click on the link to read the rest:

    The chances are, if you're a reader of this site, that you might have some interest in, or curiosity about, this movie. You may also be familiar with the zero star review given to it by Roger Ebert and the pissing match the filmmakers have tried to stir up by responding to Ebert with a full page ad in the Sun Times that states a rationale behind what writer/director Davis DeFalco was trying to do.

    Their response certainly raised my level of interest in seeing the movie, since I am a firm believer in the cathartic power of violence in drama and a great many of the horror films that I (and you, dear reader) tend to love have gotten an unfair dismissal from most "serious" film critics, like Mr. Ebert for example.

    But I am telling you, as a fan of this genre, that you need to stay away, very far away, from this movie. I will go to my grave defending the artistic and social merits of Herschell Gordon Lewis, Lucio Fulci and several other directors of splatter films but to even attempt to put "Chaos" into the same gory cinematic pool as these other directors is an insult to them and anyone else who wants to make real horror films. This movie is complete and utter horseshit through and through, a seventy minute "fuck you" to anyone who loves horror films or just films in general.

    The first insult is found on the film's poster, with a credit that reads, "based on an original idea by ...", because up until the last few minutes of the movie the film is a scene for scene lift of Wes Craven's "Last House On The Left" (another work whose artistic and social value I would defend to anyone, any day of the week), which in itself was lifted from Ingmar Bergman's film "The Virgin Spring", which was itself based on an old Swedish folktale. The fact that the filmmakers actually have the balls to try and pass off their bit of plagiarism as an original idea tells you right there what kind of respect they have for you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2005
  20. RyanPC

    RyanPC Guest

    Great review, but it makes me wanna see the film even more. :D
     

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