Classic/Famous Horror Films You Don't Like

Discussion in 'General' started by Zombie Dude, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. othervoice1

    othervoice1 Well-Known Member

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    I was disappointed when I went to see Saw at the movie theatre years ago - I was also disappointed by Session 9 when I rented it several years back - but I may give them both a try again if the opportunity arises. I have never seen any of the Saw sequels due to my initial disappointment in the original. I have been known to watch a movie - especially a horror movie- a second time and have it click for me.
     
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  2. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    I've rewatched Saw, which has alleviated some of my hate for it. But don't watch it unless you want to watch a seriously stupid movie. It's all about the techno effect. Lots of flashy shots, buzzy editing, zippy pans that are sped up. The story and characterization are terrible. But it's perfectly watchable as stupid "entertainment." (I couldn't let go of the story and character problems. But that's just me.)


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    Couldn't agree more. This movie understands that a franchise has to come up with something new to stay alive.


    I was going to say something about that before- the Scream 2 and 3 to me aren't even really horror films. I mentioned in the other thread when this came up, about Scream 3 at least- being similar to Scooby Doo and Clue and Sunset Boulevard. (Which is very cool to me, but just not really horror. And that's more than fine- Wes Craven of all people should always have been trying to broaden himself. I think there were big chunks of New Nightmare that didn't really want to be a horror film.)

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    Of course, the in-joke thing? That was huge in the 2nd half of the 80's, we can't forget that Night of the Creeps did it, Waxwork did it, Sleepaway Camp II did it, The Blob remake did it. Every movie that added commentary like "oh, horror these days is all slashers and gore" (Fright Night, Ghoulies 2). Or every movie that had scenes at a video store or where characters talked about horror movies (The Dead Next Door, Psychos in Love). Or... spoofs? (Transylvania Twist has a ton of references.) Hell, go back a bit further: both The Howling and An American Werewolf in London did it too with all the songs with "Moon" in the title or all the characters named after directors who'd made werewolf movies. Or, what about The Evil Dead? We know that thing has some serious Exorcist, Night of the Living Dead, and The Shining vibes. (I know "influence" isn't the same as a callback exactly but I think to curb any kind of bad word / anyone thinking it was ripping off the style of anyone else or ideas of anyone else, it was intentionally a style horror buffs' movie. And every other scene at least was an outright reference.)

    But, yeah, I agree that at the time, it did make Jason Lives pretty special. Though I'm also down for any movie that talks about Jason like a mythic legend of the area of Crystal Lake and has the "teens / counselors" come in completely from the outside not really knowing anything more than maybe their parents brought "him" up a few times. Friday the 13th is a Campfire Tale kind of franchise and is very adaptable to being interpreted the way Jason Lives does. By turning him into kind of an even bigger, more unstoppable Hulk-type "monster," they made him very powerful in the movie.

    I also want to say this is why Jason worked in the 80's and why he doesn't work in 2001 or 2003 or 2009. You can't just keep making Jason bigger and more unkillable. How the hell would the survivors ever be able to stop him? Their defenses would just get dumber / more last-minute lucky and more unrealistic. I hate to say it, but maybe the only thing to do with Jason to revive him is re-write him. Change his backstory. Explain it so it makes sense that he spent his whole life living off the woods and he learned how to hunt people that way; etc. (To keep saying it's revenge over his mother's death might be one of the weakspots of all the rebooty movies. This plot point really wasn't even important to Jason Lives or The New Blood or The Final Chapter or Part 3, etc.) Besides, Jason was clearly not an original idea- The Burning did technically the same thing: "he's out there, watching us, sharpening his (weapon), waiting to get even- BOO!" And that was all without a mother.

    I also adore Part V too. But, more than anything, I feel like it exists to remind us about the healthier attitudes about sex that the characters from the first 3 movies had. (Before The Final Chapter played into every awful thing parents, religious groups, and, frankly, Siskel & Ebert were saying all along about the franchise. Why let filmmakers make a film in this franchise if they hate the characters so much?)

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    Women aren't party favors, douchebag! You don't possess them. You don't "play" with them. And, of course- not getting laid at a party? Lose your head. Start making threats. (What were we meant to think was going through his head with his anger turned up this high? That he only had one night to do it, or that he was going to die if he didn't have sex? Seriously: this movie is some nasty shit. There are literally dozens of examples exactly this screwed up throughout the entire film. Compared to this, Part V, no matter how much it has sex on the brain, is refreshing!!)

    But, anyway, why dwell on a shitstorm when A New Beginning is so relentlessly fun? I could watch that final scene at the hospital 10 times in a row, easy.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
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  3. Anthropophagus

    Anthropophagus Well-Known Member

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    Great post, though I think we're agreeing way too much recently, perhaps it's a sign of the impending apocalypse? Lol.
     
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  4. Natas

    Natas ....on the warm side of the dooooooor

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    I always thought the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre was extremely over rated. Aside from a sequence or two, I find it very boring. Besides "The Next Generation" I enjoy every other TCM film more than the original. (I haven't seen the 3D remake from a couple of years ago though)
     
  5. Anthropophagus

    Anthropophagus Well-Known Member

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    To address your very valid criticisms of the rampant misogny inherent in Part IV, I always try to remember the context of when the film was released (1984). Remember at this point that the teen sex comedy as pioneered by 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High' (1982)was dominating the box-office as much as a sub-genre is capable of doing so.
    The teen sex comedy was predicated on the notion of horny young men 'scoring' nubile young females, something I always thought the makers of Part IV consciously injected into this sequel. The more overt themes of sex driven humor, 'the dead fuck', the eye candy provided by the twins, the teen party atmosphere, the viewing of the stag film, Glover's over the top dancing. This film broke with tradition in that the teens were not going to be working at a Summer camp but rather renting a house to express their hedonistic desires whether alcohol or sex fueled with the principal goal of getting laid, similar thematically to Part III, but more pronounced. I think that this theme of increased sexualization is also the basis for Jason's increased violence and fury in this film, the goriest entry thus far, and the one that takes the 'cautionary tale' to the furthest extreme consequently. The theme of casual sex is established from the onset with the young intern trying to lay the nurse in the morgue. The random and meaningless sexual encounters of the new sub-genre and it's box office success was to be inevitably tied to a horror sub genre essentially based on teens punished for promiscuity.
    I think it's no coincidence that one of the main male stars, Lawrence Monoson, found previous fame in 'The Last American Virgin' (1982) certainly one of the most vulgar and extreme teen sex comedies of that period (1982). Glover would later go on to star in one of the most nihilistic teen films of the decade, The River's Edge (1986).
    Not sure if it was meant as a nasty piece of work, which for this franchise it is, or just really emblematic of the times.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
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  6. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    It's definitely a bigger issue than that. Because that would only apply then to the male members of the cast (and Tina, of course). No: the whole film's outlook on sexuality is damning, judgmental, darkly sleazy, and outright hateful. For every character shy of Trish and Rob.

    It's actually the first Friday the 13th film without any atmosphere of the setting of "a house / cabin / lodge / 2 houses next to each other on Crystal Lake" because of this. (And last until New Line took over.) You get no special vibes from the woods or the water or the season. It has no pervasive feeling of "Jason's out there"- instead, it's all about the sex. And the running commentary starts from a very bad place (I say it starts with the rescue team, others will say it starts with Mr. Necrophilia, Axel the morgue worker) and ends on a scene that wasn't filmed- Barney Cohen (the guy this can all be blamed on) wanted Jason to grope Trish during that scene "I'm gonna give you something to remember us by!" Well... that sure as hell would have taken away that 30 seconds of empowerment the film gave her where she splits his hand open down the middle. (I know she was no match for him, physically. I'm no fool- I've even gone out of my way to complain right on this board that her being able to fend him off on the ground with light kicks and slaps while Tommy finishes shaving his head and running down the stairs was absurd.)

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    Now... I'd have to be born yesterday to think all the other Paramount movies were purely respectful to their own ideal of free love / anyone (straight) can hookup. They managed to slip in a few horrible people doing horrible things. Melissa's entire storyline in The New Blood is just there so we enjoy her death even more. But we weren't meant to like her as a character. Nick literally says "I don't like you." Not interested. Unlike Paul in Final Chapter, he's sending a clear message that we don't approve of what she's doing- which is exactly what Tina's doing (in Final Chapter). But when Tina's death comes up, we're meant to be horrified. And before she dies, we're meant to be titillated by her. But there's no subversive text to anything she's doing. She was written as a one-note troublemaker using sex to break up Samantha and Paul, and the movie celebrates this. Except, when Terri leaves in a huff and before getting on her bike shouts, "you slut!" Making her look like a sex-shaming prude. So: you see the pattern. It all goes around, everyone is made terrible.

    A New Beginning is the only film that almost compares- due exclusively to the Pete and Billy characters, one of them calls his date for the night a "cunt" and the other makes a lewd gesture to Pam- who the movie makes us free to like as a character. (Even though she totally botched that "stop it" line after Matt says he's upset that Tina and Eddie have run off again.) But, even then, the movie's formula dooms them both to die for being bad people- rather than forcing them to stay onscreen because they're awful. Pete is killed right off, sitting in the same seat he made the egregious comment. Billy may be a violation of policy for the movie, however, because he's allowed to stay long enough to get an entire scene playing around with the drugs, showing off his motormouth / sound effect / vocal impression skills. Meanwhile, I was at least half-impressed that he didn't treat Lana the same way he treated Pam. (She was into the innuendo talk.)


    Until Valley Girl came along the next year (1983) and completely reformed that dynamic. Nic Cage may have started out as a guy looking to score, but that's also why he was brutally evicted from the Val party.

    There's more to that, obviously: the previous scene with Michael Bowen sleazing E.G. Daily over in the upstairs bedroom of course says that that's what the "sophisticated, rich Val dudes" were up to at the party as well- but they hid it intentionally like wolves in sheep's clothing and kicked Nic Cage and Cameron Dye out for dressing like wolves when they were both much more sweet and romantic. (Like gentle, but boyish, lambs.) Hence: subversion of formula / cliché/trope.


    Hardly casual in her eyes:

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    In fact, I could almost have given the movie credit for her snark and her just overall treatment of him after he makes that crack about one of the victims from Part 3. If it weren't for her horrendous acting. And, of course, when Jason's hand falls down (which is baggage all its own- that's a file I think best to leave unopened) and "ruins the mood," naturally Axel goes into Rage Mode and freaks her out. No, it wasn't the hand that made her realize "I must be nuts"- it was Axel. The unspoken SUPER RAGE at not getting laid. (But, again, because the shitty writing- he already tried to "lure" her in with women's aerobics on TV - something I doubt even lesbians found arousing at the time - and thought the corpse storage room was the ideal place to "get it on".) So, again, any context of "oh, it's just guys being guys" is taken way over the edge and destroyed- I don't know many guys this stupid. Already, in Part 3, we had a clear and perfect/concise example of a woman telling a man she's not into it: Debbie = "Not now, I'm cold." Andy = "How about a little roll in the hay?" Debbie = "Go play with yourself."

    See? That's what I mean. This franchise is way smarter than that.


    I think it's clearly emblematic of the filmmakers' self-satisfied preoccupations. Which just also happen to be nasty.
     
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  7. Zombie Dude

    Zombie Dude Well-Known Member

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    Tried to give Near Dark a watch yesterday after not having seen it in quite some time and seeing it mentioned in this thread. I found it very slow and pretty boring this time around which was a surprise as I used to enjoy it. Jenny Wright was probably the best part about it as she was extremely beautiful back then.

    Also tried House by the Cemetery again and found it pretty darn boring and all over the place. I had a few laughs and some of the gore was good but it's not a film a really care to watch again.
     
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  8. Body Boy

    Body Boy Well-Known Member

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    Dude, you're better than that to read so much into my comment. Seriously Twister. My opinion is that it is one big joke, so of course I will say "Do you even horror?", since it feels like a comedy. And considering it's supposed to be a fun, but mean slasher series, I don't get how that is praised as number one. I never said "Jason Lives lovers are stupid and can fuck off" did I? Don't be so defensive because somebody slugged a film you like. If somebody said to me, "Why would you place Part 1 as your favorite? Is it because you blindly always like the 'original' first?", I wouldn't go off on them. Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  9. Anthropophagus

    Anthropophagus Well-Known Member

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    I recently had the exact same experience with House by the Cemetery and actually wound up selling it.
    I used to love it, but I found the pacing intolerable and was irritated by much of it the last go round.
    Fulci was always more a party with a group of drunken friends type experience in the last few years anyway.
     
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  10. Zombie Dude

    Zombie Dude Well-Known Member

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    Haha, I'm currently trying to sell my DVD too. It's also funny you say his later movies are more party friendly as the first time I saw this one was drinking with a mate. I mean it was still bad then but more enjoyable than this time around.
     
  11. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    TCM doesn't do much for me either. I got swept up and bought the Blu-ray in the early days of HD but rather regret that now. I never bothered with the sequels. But recently I heard some things about TCM2 that make me want to see it after all.

    I'm just not a fan of hillbilly horror in general though.
     
  12. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

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    Man, all the TCM hate. Like I said after this thread was originally began, I might have to put some of you on ignore!

    Seriously though, two things stand out for me about TCM. One is the reputation its garnered over the years as being far more graphic in the violence depicted that what is really shown. If you can find someone (this will be rather difficult) who saw it in the drive-ins way back when but hasn't seen it since, I can almost guarantee that they'd say today's Blu Ray or DVD release is "cut", and that the version they saw showed so much more. It's not true, of course, it's just one of those things you think you saw, and your mind plays tricks on you. And that's a credit to the film.

    The other thing is that it's one of the few films to actually scare me as an adult. I'm old, but not old enough to have seen it on its first run. I had to wait for VHS, I was around 19 I think. As Sally is getting tortured at the dinner table, I could only think of people who'd been kidnapped and killed by psychos in real life, and I imagined their last moments were something similar. The crazy visual style, the closeups of the eyes, really sold the whole thing for me.
     
  13. Natas

    Natas ....on the warm side of the dooooooor

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    I'm not saying I HATE TCM, I just think it's over rated. Doesn't have a lot of rewatch value, isn't fun at all. "Scary" is a stretch in my opinion. The dinner table scene and the chase sequence was pretty cool but not enough to save the entire film, in these eyes.

    TCM2 is really fun. It's weird, very entertaining if you ask me. I found it at a flea market on vhs about 10 years ago for 2 bucks.
    I also think the remake from 03 is awesome. One of the best remakes there are. The prequel was badass too.
     
  14. Zombie Dude

    Zombie Dude Well-Known Member

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    Tried to watch 30 Days of Night last night and found it pretty boring. I seem to remember this film getting a lot of positive buzz when it came out but I couldn't even get through it this time. A lot of whispering and not very likeable characters. Also found some of the vampire dialogue pretty bad.
     
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  15. MisterTwister

    MisterTwister The Schlock King

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    I remember the opinion on it being pretty mixed. The hype for it was strong but the final product was a mixed bag at best.
     
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  16. MisterTwister

    MisterTwister The Schlock King

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    LMAO.

    I never went off on you. Hell I was perfectly respectable I thought. Sounds like you're the one being "defensive"

    It was a big joke anyways so....later!
     
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  17. Harry Warden

    Harry Warden Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more. TCM to me (strictly my opinion) is so classic. What scares the shit out of me is how close it could be to reality. The fact that it isn't gory scares me all the more, because a lot is left up to your imagination. The scene you mention of how Sally is being tortured in the house is god awful in all of the right ways. When I first watched TCM, I truly felt he fear and how she was nearly going out of he mind wondering how on earth she ended up in such a nightmare. The rural setting and Sally's utter feeling of overwhelming despair makes the ending all the better when she gets the fuck away from her tormentors. Her screaming and maniacal laughter at the end was spot on. That's how I would have felt realizing that I just escaped death by the skin of my teeth. What a film. I was so relieved to see her escape. The mental anguish that she suffered is the most terrifying part of the film, IMO. For those who grew up in the 80's or later, I certainly understand why some viewers feel it's boring, but as a child of the 70's, it was more like "HOLY SHIT".
     
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  18. Body Boy

    Body Boy Well-Known Member

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    You said that I insulted the people who enjoy Jason Lives. That I was "better than that", implying that I was out of line. So yes, you went off on me Twister.
     
  19. Anthropophagus

    Anthropophagus Well-Known Member

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    Try having a few Heinekens and checking out 'The Sweet House of Horrors' by Fulci.
    Nothing can prepare you for this, nothing!! Lol.
     
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  20. Anthropophagus

    Anthropophagus Well-Known Member

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    Man, superbly expressed.
    There was so much hype about this film when I was growing up that when I finally got my hands on the VHS I was fully expecting non stop chainsaws cutting through skulls and limbs with copious amounts of blood and gore spurting everywhere.
    What I got was an altogether more subdued film, one with lasting impact, that never ceases to terrify in its realism.
    Of course, the impact of the original has been diluted by some abysmal sequels, and fans that came into the franchise by watching Texas Chainsaw 3D are apt to find the whole thing laughable but that original film still holds up for me like few can.
     

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