Deep Red overrated?

Discussion in 'Euro Horror' started by zombi3, Nov 21, 2002.

  1. Cydeous

    Cydeous Axxon N

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    It's funny that people are complaining about the long version of <B>Deep Red</B> on this forum. I thought the people here disapproved of studio tampering of films. Aren't films an art form or are they just for entertainment? Would someone tell Michelangelo to chisel off David's dick? Absurd. I feel the same way about altering films.

    Dario Argento obviously intended the longer version to be his film. A few of his other films were Americanized, incidently. Does anyone remember the removal of the roaming crane scene in <B>Unsane</B>, and the severly hacked <B>Creepers</B>. Are they better in their abridged form as well? I think not.
     
  2. dvdasia62

    dvdasia62 Guest

    This is completely false as Dario himself has stated on numerous occasions that he prefers the quicker paced 105 minute cut and this is just plain fact he has repeated countless times as after the fact, he realized the extra dialogue was not to his liking. And trust me, the complaints about the longer version are not restricted to here, they are on forums everywhere as is the groundswell for AB to do a re-release with both the complete and shortened version of the film and if not AB, then BU. :)
     
  3. zombi3

    zombi3 Pure Evil

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    Well I agree, dwatts, but it appears that we're in the minority on this one. :rolleyes:
     
  4. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    --It's funny that people are complaining about the long version of Deep Red on this forum. I thought the people here disapproved of studio tampering of films. --

    Not to a degree that the film lurches along, dragging its heals on dialog that isn't even in the same language as the rest of the film - with pointless scenes that do nothing for the overall film.
     
  5. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

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    Well, I'm going to let Maitland McDonagh add her $0.02. This is quoted directly from page 103 of her book "Broken Mirrors Broken Minds":

    Of all Argento's movies, Deep Red seems to have suffered the most extensive editing for US release, losing some 20 minutes of its 115 minute running time. Most of the deletions aren't of violent material; they seem to have been made simply to bring down the running time. Though none of the deletions completely obscures a narrative point, they do seriously interfere with the development of many subtexts.
     
  6. dvdasia62

    dvdasia62 Guest

    One of the reasons I didn't care much for her book. Aside from disagreeing with much of what she wrote, her over psycho-analytical approach simply took the fun out of it for me. Still, whatever version you prefer, it's all a matter of taste and preference and either way, your seeing an excellent film. For me, the shorter version didn't hamper character developement or the developement of "subtexts" but to each his/her own. I'd love AB to release both versions in an SE so we could have the best of both worlds. :)
     
  7. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

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    Well, how bout that? We finally agree on something!

    Just to let you know, I definitely don't parrot McDonagh, 'cause she also thinks Tenebrae is a better film. But I still do agree with the assessment above, that the deleted scenes remove a lot of subtext. I also really enjoyed the way she took apart the first 10 minutes of the film, practically frame-by-frame. That section of Broken Mirrors is infinitely fascinating and informative, most everything else is dull and dry.

    On an interesting note on the same topic, in her dissection of Deep Red, she often cites the deleted scenes and how important they are. Then she calls the mini-car scenes (which were also deleted) unneccesary:
    Personally, I think that's exactly WHY those scenes are essential. Marc goes to some pretty far-out extremes in Deep Red, and for once in a horror film, the director makes it clear WHY someone would go to those extremes (instead of asking yourself, "Why doesn't he/she just call the COPS??")


    Paradoxically, I probably watch Tenebrae MORE then Deep Red, just 'cause Tenebrae is a quick fast-moving film, great for the second half of a late-night double feature. Deep Red is such a comprehensive exhausting film, it really requires a lot of the viewer. But again, that's why I LOVE it so much. It's one of the "Horror Epics" in my book.

    So to re-address the original topic, I do think it's underrated if anything. It's one of the most cerebral and complete horror films ever made.
     
  8. dvdasia62

    dvdasia62 Guest

    This is very well put and right on the money IMHO. Whichever way you enjoy the film is the most important thing. While I view those mini-car scenes as comical, I don't take too much more away from them such as indicating Marc's weakness whereas the arm wrestling scene(also in the shortened version)may give one that idea. My preferance for the shortened version is it's breathless pace and probably a little personal because I saw this film for the first time upon it's original US theatrical release in 1976 and that was the infamous 100 minute version. :)
     
  9. Blue Holocaust

    Blue Holocaust New Member

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    I'd like to say Deep Red is my favorite Argento film, definitely the one I revisit the most. I find it to be alot richer than other Argento films. The style and direction are beautiful and solid throughout, the mystery, psychology & motives are really intriguing and the investigation alot more interesting than in most gialli.
    It's got my favorite Goblin score as well. The groovy tune during the murders, the excellent main theme... I get excited just listening to the music.
    I don't like the cut version too much... I don't mind films that build slowly, especially when they're as great as Deep Red. The cut version just takes too many shortcuts, dialogue but also little details and chunks of story I find important personally. I also find Daria Nicolodi, David Hemmings & Gabriele Lavia characters to be the warmest and most likable Argento characters ever, so I have no problem getting to see more of their scenes. I don't agree that these actors don't have chemistry, but well...

    Deep Red is the ultimate giallo to me! And I really think the praise for this film is well deserved.
    I like Tenebrae a great deal too, but visually I find it a little dull and overlit, especially between the murder scenes. Also, I don't care for the characters like I care for the characters in Deep Red... My first viewing of Tenebrae was a real shock but the film was not as effective on subsequent viewings... It doesn't excite me the way Deep Red does.
     
  10. Grim

    Grim Well-Known Member

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    I dont really think Deep red is overrated. I think Suspiria is. Grant it, Susperia is good, infact it's very good. But it's not the Holy Grail of Argento films. I personally think Opera is his best. But these are just my opinions, their like asses.....everybody's got one.
     
  11. Cujo108

    Cujo108 Guest

    I disagree. SUSPIRIA is Argento's best if you ask me, and is far from overrated. As for PROFUNDO ROSSO, its not even in my Argento top five, and while great, I don't think its as great or complex as most say it is.
     
  12. Grim

    Grim Well-Known Member

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    Well thats your opinion. I dont think that any Argento movie is above the other. I think it is based on what the viewer prefers, some will say Suspiria, some Opera, some Tenebre, some even Deep Red, its all up to the viewer. Ya know what I mean.
     
  13. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    -I dont think that any Argento movie is above the other.--

    Didn't you just say Opera was the best? --LOL--

    Deep Red just didn't do much for me. But my theory goes, we each seem to prefer the FIRST Argento film we see. Mine was Tenebrae, and the impact of that film was enormous. I like almost all of them to a degree, but Deep Red doesn't race out ahead of the rest.
     
  14. Grim

    Grim Well-Known Member

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    All I'm saying is that these are just our opinions. We all have different favorites, but that doesnt bring any movie above the other. I think the only one who can truly decide which is better is Dario Argento himself.
     
  15. zombi3

    zombi3 Pure Evil

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    Actually, I don't think Dario likes ANY of his films. Didn't he say once that he never watches them because it makes him want to go back and reshoot them all differently? However, I also remember reading that his personal favorite is Phenomena, so who knows? :confused:
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Nah, cuz he hates CAT O' NINE TAILS, and I love that movie :D.

    DEEP RED kicks ass. It was the first Argento movie that I bought, so it'll always be one of my favorites. However, I did rent SUSPIRIA awhile before, and while it was a cut, P&S VHS, I still loved it. I still don't know what my favorite is. DEEP RED, SUSPIRIA, BWTCP, or TENEBRE, but I can't pick one.

    EDIT: zombi3 must've posted as I was typing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2002
  17. AceRimRat

    AceRimRat Guest

    You know, that's interesting, because the first Argento I saw (Phenomena) holds a warm spot in my heart and I agree that its impact showed me a whole new kind of horror film (I am a slasher fan, generally speaking), but is not my favorite.

    Tenebrae, the second one I saw, is probably my favorite (I waffle on this, and I can't remember what I posted before, and now I'm too lazy to look), but I remember when I got to Deep Red, I was so impressed because (to me) it was so much better than Tenebrae, which I loved.
     
  18. EPKJ

    EPKJ Guest

    Deep Red is the template by which gialli are measured. It is the finest example of the giallo film of which I am aware, and it certainly is Argento's best film. It is a masterpiece which made Argento a name director.
     
  19. dvdasia62

    dvdasia62 Guest

    Agreed.
     
  20. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Actually he was hailed as the director of the film that "out-psychoed Psycho" based upon his first film alone, and BIRD was released 6 years earlier than DEEP RED.
     

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