Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Reader Polls' started by ThisEvilBastard, Jun 25, 2013.
Well no thats just Bruce and the guys bullshiting you
I went with Cabin in the Woods. Evil Dead was a fun gore soaked ride, but other then the gore there wasn't too much to it. Cabin in the Woods was a fresh comedic take on the genre with likeable characters and one of the coolest final 20 min. I have ever seen. I don't see how any horror fan can hate that part of the movie? I had a blast with both in the theatres but Cabin made me excited to watch it again right away, Evil Dead not so much. And I agree, I don't think Cabin is an Evil Dead remake at all.
Not a big fan of Cabin in the woods. Thought Evil Dead was very good.
I LOOOOOOVED Cabin in the Woods - but I am also a big Joss Whedon fan and love his humor and writing. I also enjoyed Evil Dead but not nearly as much.
Cabin in the Woods all the way.
I liked the Evil Dead remake okay, but it was only an average movie.
It hardly did so without ripping off a few other important movies along the way. I mean, when you scrape off the "gee, we've seen an Asian schoolgirl film before" type stuff they did, you basically have The Truman Show and Network. I consider that to be a little lazy. Actually, a lot lazy. More proof of this can be found in the fact that they also ripped off the remake of 13 Ghosts to get their big Monsters in Class Cages subplot. Maybe even Hellraiser and Resident Evil too.
I was more than a little miffed when I read this the first time and you brought up Scream to brand it inferior. But the fact is that you're just way off. Not necessarily about CITW being superior. As much as I hated it, I can't really say your view isn't valid to you. But Scream was a 2 hour film, back when filmmakers actually used those 2 hours to do things, with a hell of a lot more going for it than naming off clichés. #1: It did so to characterize the teenagers as arrogant rather than hip (hipness being the charge so many of the people who hated try to hold against it when Craven and Williamson weren't doing a damn thing in the movie to - let's say - push Ghostface as a merchandisable figure, make smaller faces like Rose McGowan and Jamie Kennedy into stars, or manipulate audiences with anything phony to get the teens to like it), ignorant, naïve, and jaded. #2: The film was actually more about how the media affected the teen characters than clichés in horror. #3: It was in no small or hidden manner about how certain authority figures use the genre as a scapegoat to blame the bad behavior of teenagers. You really should go back and rewatch it.
The Cabin in the Woods may be the most clueless, blind, unperceptive horror film to come out since Slumber Party Massacre III. Literally, since Scream, every single year we've gotten an entirely self-aware horror film meditating on the clichés and trademarks of a certain sub-sect of the genre. Has anyone taken a look around lately? Wishmaster, Bride of Chucky, Urban Legend, Cherry Falls, The Dead Hate the Living, Disturbing Behavior, Halloween H20, Children of the Corn V, The Faculty: and these are just in the 3 years following Scream. Every single one of these movies were self-aware, from cameos to name drops to endless examples of areas where the filmmakers were expecting viewers to know what movie they were borrowing from. And not just a Jason mask here or Freddy sweater there. Entire situations were copied, and from movies as varied as The Stepford Wives and Westworld. Which weren't nearly as recognizable to young audiences as Children of the Corn was to the viewers who forked over money to see For Richer or Poorer in its theatrical run.
What happened after The Blair Witch Project? Not a thing. The self-aware trend kept on going. Only, it spawned careers: Rob Zombie, Eli Roth, Alexandre Aja, Ti West, Lucky McKee. Each and every one of these directors made their own Mr. Potatohead horror movie. But how did they get careers? Not because they ripped off other movies. At least... that's not how the fans look at it. For the love of GOD, just look at The Devil's Rejects! How was that movie received? As a subversive, substantial self-aware grindhouse survival flick. Playing with convention. Blahdy blahblahblah. Meanwhile, how did it evolve as a form of storytelling incorporating its influences? Artless regurgitation. The scene where Sheri Moon does her rendition of Krug from Last House on the Left (and, way to go Zombie making her more "threatening" than in Corpses: pattern her after male characters because fuck forbid women be intimidating by their own nature). Bill Mosely doing a version of Leatherface which involves wearing a face mask... and that's all. And that truck death scene was clearly a wink to Bride of Chucky. Which no one else is willing to recognize. (This is why that irritates me.)
CITW was already made 10 years ago. It was called: Cabin Fever. I'll be the first to say it wasn't a successful experiment. However, it was anything but a stupid movie. And, it was as genuine and dedicated to trying to be unique and original as The Return of the Living Dead. With which it shares some surprising, seemingly incidental, parallels. CITW recreates a scene from Cabin Fever, under the assumption they're borrowing from Texas Chainsaw Massacre. For their sake, they'd better be copying from the latter. Because one of the things Cabin Fever did beautifully was making the group of college teens self-righteously PC to a flaw. In a way that actually related to the way teens were starting to turn out in the era of Girls Gone Wild: if you offend their morals (that's not to say they're actually open-minded when it comes to everything), you're a dick. Which is exactly why CITW is so damn clueless: they did the same thing - in a much less nuanced and intelligent manner - without realizing Cabin Fever already did it. And without the payoff CF had at the end when we realize they were wrong about the store owner. The only novelty the film has with characterization is Whedon's doing: this group of "teens" would easily fit in in the Buffy TV universe. (Sorry, but much like with Rob Zombie's movies, I never bought that series as authentic in its' trying to be smart with believable teen characters.)
As for the continued fandom for Carbon Copy sequels of the 80's... it was a better time for entertaining-bad filmmaking. Are we too hard on movies like Cabin in the Woods? I don't think so. I think what's much worse is that the makers of CITW are getting credit for ideas they didn't have.
Paranormal Activity, its sequels, and all of the "found footage" horror that was popularized by BWP disagree with you.
Did you read what Paff said in his original post?:
His point wasn't about Blair Witch Project spawning a trend that CITW identified. It was about the film and its success showing the industry that fans valued new and original concepts over Carbon Copy plots from franchise to the next wannabe franchise.
Love both but felt CITW was more entertaining.
Actually, my point about The Blair Witch Project is that it is a divisive film among horror fans. VERY divisive. Heck, we had a "worst horror ever" thread here in the last couple of weeks, and at least one person cited BWP, yet several others cited it in their "best of all time" lists. And what I was saying is that BWP definitely bucks many of the trends in horror (no pretty girl, no likeable characters, everyone dies, it doesn't follow the "blueprint" of so many horror films, etc) and a lot of horror fans despise it. They won't admit it, but I think a good chunk of BWP haters don't like it simply because they LIKE the established trends and rules of horror films and can't handle it when someone breaks those rules.
Now, about Paranormal Activity? I've mentioned this in other threads, but I truly don't think it was inspired by The Blair Witch Project. I think the "found footage" genre has more sprung up due to the heavy influx of "reality-based" entertainment we see nowadays. Why? Simple. Look at the time between BWP and all the found-footage films. It's a good 10 years. When filmmakers want to capitalize on a surprise hit (I.E., rip it off), they jump on it IMMEDIATELY. Literally, it would be the same if we never saw the slasher film craze of the 80s, and didn't see one until 1995 or so, and conclude, "oh, they're just capitalizing on the popularity of Halloween". Wouldn't make sense.
Blair Witch Project is a turd. No other way to say it. And there's a difference between unlikable characters (*cough*, American Psycho) and non-characters speaking non-dialogue while non-things don't happen in a non-film. Which is BWP in its best moment. At worst, it's an I.Q.-sucking cultural void with a hundred "fuck"s where its brain ought to be. Literally. Its only value is in the parodies it spawned.
I tend to despise stupid, pointless excuses for movies too.
If those are my options, then I'd have to pick Cabin In The Woods!
There have been a ton of found footage flicks between the time Blair Witch was released and Paranormal Activity came out!? And even a handful made before Blair Witch!
Would you say BWP is the proto-found-footage film the same way Bay of Blood and Black Christmas are considered the proto-slashers?
Cabin in the Woods - had a blast 8/10
Evil Dead (2013) - huge letdown 4.5-5/10
Well who actively enjoys watching any movie filled with characters not to like? That's going to turn off audiences no matter what the genre. I wouldn't blame people for overall not liking something that's actively trying not to be liked. "It's trying not to be liked; therefore like it" is not persuasive.
And it's not out of the norm to have horror movies without pretty girls, where everyone dies and it doesn't follow blueprints: NotLD, The Thing, Cannibal Holocaust, Evil Dead (original), Nosferatu '79, more I'm sure. That's not exactly "worst ever" list material. Horror is one of the few genre's where potentially anything goes. Plus Heather Donahue isn't all that homely, just wasn't a very flattering movie and didn't have a shower scene.
Which go back to the main problems of BWP: Dumb unlikable characters who acted irrationally. That was a major complaint in many reviews. What's not to admit?
NOTLD - Barbara survives.
The Thing - Childs and MacReady are still alive at the end.
Evil Dead - Ash is still alive.
I would assume he's referring to the original NOTLD. And while Childs, Macready, and Ash are all technically still alive the last time we see them, I think the implication is very clear that they're all about to die (regardless of what happens in Evil Dead II). And since this is all revolving around a discussion of BWP, Mike is technically still alive the last time we see him, too. But the implication is that he's going to die.
Well, I kinda wanted to avoid another BWP discussion. Obviously, it is not the ONLY horror film that avoids the "template" suggested by Cabin in the Woods, but it's one of the more obvious examples. And yes, we horror fans can embrace films that buck the trends, but I do think there's a LOT of "cookie-cutter" horror films that are slapped together. And this has been true since the beginning of the genre, whether it's Universal monster movies, Godzilla movies, Hammer horror, slashers, et al. I'll even be the first to admit that many horror movies that I love are "cookie-cutters", and I'll bet a lot of you would too. That's why I find CITW to be a biting commentary on us as fans, and true in many ways.
DVDF9, you actually prove my point a little about BWP though, when you refer to "non-characters", "non-dialogue", and a "non-film". I agree with you on all three counts, and that's why I find it so damn disturbing. It's all a little too real for me sometimes, (well, at least it was the first couple of times I've seen it....it does lose a bit of it's impact on repeated viewings), and I feel sometimes I'm watching three annoying people get killed. It feels very different from a "film" as we've come to expect it.
I'll talk more about Scream and CITW a little later (I'm at work now) in regards to your other comments.
I really like BWP and think the hate probably derives most from all the hype it received. If it came and went with little fanfare, I doubt people would hate it so venomously. It reminds me of Picnic at Hanging Rock with the creepiness in it's enigmatic understatedness.
I also thought the way they made BWP was really creative, using the GPS and notes for the actors as well as providing them with less and less food as they continued to film and by not allowing them to shower or leave the woods during filming. I think that only heightened the feeling of "reality".
I definitely enjoyed Cabin more than Evil Dead as I found Evil Dead really unremarkable. I would have liked to seen Cabin become a little darker and the ending with Weaver left me kinda cold.