First look at Rob Zombie's version of Michael Myers

Discussion in 'Slashers' started by broadwayrock, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. Let's be fair, just because someone likes Rhett's review doesn't make them a tard. Maybe they're drunk.
     
  2. rhett

    rhett Administrator

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    Movies speak to a universal audience and are the most powerful and popular beacons for influencing (and reflecting) society's opinions. I'd like to think that the people making them would realize the great responsibility they have to tell stories that, at the very least, don't promote hatred or prejudice. Ask the teenager who eviscerated a small boy he was looking after because of imagery he saw in WARLOCK (of all movies!) if it's all "make believe land".

    I assume you mean gender, and I certainly hope that's not the case.
     
  3. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    Like it or not it's called freedom of expression and either way I have never blatantly heard Rob Zombie preach I'll will against women. This is YOUR conclusion. What happened to that boy was unfortunate but you can't make rules that take rights away from the majority in hopes of preventing the 1 in a million actions of a unstable mind. There is more violence in film today then ever yet the murder rate is 3-4 times lower then it was in the 70's. Why that is, is anyone's guess.

    Yes sorry gender, and yes most people do hold certain prejudices they just don't always act on it. I'm not sure if your disputing this claim or not.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2007
  4. Agent Z

    Agent Z "Get to the river...

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    So, going off of Rob Zombie's writing and filmmaking, you have come to the conclusion that he is a misogynist?

    Fair enough.

    Using your same approach, and seeing how you dip into the sludge bucket to bring up crude and tired labels for women (and their anatomy) in your reviews, I would have to conclude that your opinion of women is pretty damn low as well.

    On a sidenote, while I agree with many of your points about the film itself, I can't help but wonder if you would have bumped your rating up a tad more if Michael Myers was a war vet, coming home to an apathetic Haddonfield?
     
  5. rhett

    rhett Administrator

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    MANSION OF THE LIVING DEAD is a terrible film, and Franco's portrait of women is so sexualized, depraved and unrealistic that I thought I would write with the same blaise disregard to illustrate that point. My labels there are, indeed, intentionally as tired as Franco's perverted perspective towards women. "Birth canal" is a tired label for women's parts? You're really searching there, man.

    Even if you ignored my obvious sympathy for Grace in my review for THE HITCHER, and assumed these two reviews were misogynistic (they're not), then that would be two of over 150 reviews I've done for this site. In a majority of the others you'll find me championing them and their positive or progressive depictions in other films. Compare that with Rob Zombie, who has made three films and has exhibited misogyny in all three. Considering I never raped a woman with a pistol, had them hit by a bus while flailing around helplessly (only to laugh at it afterwards) or threatened to skull fuck them in any of my reviews, I'd say I'm at least a slight step above Zombie here. Will you give me that, Cody?

    Still dwelling on THE HITCHER, huh? Real mature, at any rate. Films have no subtext whatsoever. Silly me for trying to look deeper. Give me a break.
     
  6. RyanPC

    RyanPC Guest

    Is it really fair to suggest that because Zombie includes scenes of rape and violence against women in his films, he is a misogynist? By that card, you might as well lump Dario Argento and Brian De Palma in with the misogynists. I don't think the viewer should assume that filmmakers find pleasure in the things they put in their films--they might be things that interest them or they find some sort of aesthetic pleasure (filmically) in it, but just because a filmmaker puts a murder or a rape in their film does not mean they condone murder or rape.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2007
  7. Agent Z

    Agent Z "Get to the river...

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    For starters, and to clarify the obvious, I don't think you actually believe the objectifying/stereotyping comments from those examples I gave, and your obvious offense at my post and subsequent reply in defense of proves my point that we should not judge an individual wholly by their art.

    You don't appreciate your individuality being judged by merely your written reviews, do you rhett? By the same token, I can't be convinced that Zombie deserves to be personally attacked from just his art alone.

    Now, if you want to say that Zombie's films and music have misogynistic themes in them, that's fine and it's your interpretation of single, self-contained, entities of art. I can live with that. However, to say that the man himself, whom you have never met, nor have any other experience with other than hearing his music or seeing his films, is a misogynist?! I'm sorry, I see that as a form of prejudice, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that particular method of evaluating individuals.


    I tried to give you a break. I deleted my one comment about the review a few minutes after it was posted, because I made it in half-jest, and because I felt it was too meanspirited in tone and unfair to you....but then you go ahead and cold pm me about it several hours after it was taken off, like you "caught me!" with your top secret super fancy email alert of the original message. :rolleyes:

    So, if you want to complain about keeping a tangent going, remember that you're the one who went out of his way to pick up what I tried to drop in the first place.

    [/The Hitcher (2007) review nonsense]
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2007
  8. rhett

    rhett Administrator

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    No, it's not fair to say that just because there's rape or violence against women in a film it is misogynistic. I'd never be so shallow as to suggest such a thing. DEATH PROOF is filled with violence against women, but I'd call it one of the best feminist statements made in cinema in years. Similarly, Altman has often had misogynistic characters in his films, but by his own accord, he makes films about misogyny, not misogynistic pictures. Him, Tarantino, Argento and De Palma are all directors who have gone out on a limb to present progressive portraits of women, breaking away from the cliched depictions of women in genre to present developed and nuanced female characters as well as challenging films about femininity.

    And I don't hold them all on a pedestal either, I think Argento still has old age sensibilities of women as either the virgin or the whore (which I point out in my review of THE STENDHAL SYNDROME, which, onebyone, I loved). Yet even with that, Argento still demonstrates a willingness to explore and address his own predispositions about women. CARRIE, STENDHAL, NASHVILLE and JACKIE BROWN are some of my favorite movies, and all have terrible scenes with women, but they do to illustrate the struggle women must often undergo in a mean and unfair society. These are movies that promote positive change.

    I still think calling Rob Zombie a filmmaker is a stretch, but if we are to compare his films with those other directors', it's pretty evident the motivations behind what he does to women is completely different. There's no tragedy in their death like there is in BLOW OUT, where Travolta is torn apart because of what happened to Nancy Allen. There's not even sympathy, like when Asia Argento's character cries rape at the hands of a pack of men at the end of STENDHAL. Rob Zombie isn't making any grand statements about anything, let alone anything about women's issues. He's simply demeaning, exploiting and demoralizing his female characters because that just seems to be what he likes to do. I'm sure someone will come out and praise Zombie's feminine touch by turning Michael's mom into a weak-willed stripper, or turning Laurie and her friends into vulgar, naked, quasi-nymphos. Or that the female patient really deserved that rape (or even that it was really integral to the story). Or that William Forsythe's antics in any of his films aren't just extensions of Zombie's deranged world-view. But to me the writing is all there right on the wall.

    Maybe he's not a misogynist. Maybe, like Altman, he's making films about misogynists. Maybe laughing at that woman getting hit by a bus was his way of dealing with post-Iraq apathy (right, Cody?). If that's the case, then, he's guilty of poor storytelling, since his films don't beg in the least bit for any sort of subtextual reading. He wears his stories on his sleeve with his diarrhea monologues. So whether he's a terrible man or a terrible filmmaker, he's still just terrible.
     
  9. rhett

    rhett Administrator

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    Oh, you can judge me on my art alone, but you better take a representative sample. If Rob Zombie made thirty films, and his body of work included movies like THE PIANO, L'AVVENTURA, WHEN A WOMAN ASCENDS THE STAIRS and CAMILLE, and I singled out his first three films and called him a misogynist, then yeah, I'd be slandering. But when every single film he has made has contained (to me) unavoidable demonstrations of misogyny, I don't think I am in the wrong at all in coming to the conclusion that he's probably a misogynist.

    If every single one of my reviews mocked women or saw them as lesser or vile, then yeah, I'd say you'd have every right to label me a hater of women.


    Thanks for the show of compassion. I can't say that I've ever had second thoughts about posting a mocking response to your thought-out reader reviews before because I'd never do that. If I ever did though, I'd try to treat you with the same courtesy.
     
  10. JW77

    JW77 Support Halliburton

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    I don't whether or not Rob Zombie is a misogynist, but judging by Devil's Rejects, he seems to take some measure of glee in showing women be sexually brutalized by the film's protagonists. The two main female victims in that movie are humiliated, raped, and gruesomely killed. And the narrative is set up to generate sympathy for the rapists and murderers.
     
  11. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    True, but he also on the other hand portrays his wife and Mother Firefly as strong, albeit sadistic characters with strong personalities. Not to mention the male victims in his films are shown just as helpless and powerless as the women.
     
  12. Chunkblower

    Chunkblower Member

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    I’m kind of at a loss, here.

    Wow. Just…wow.

    I guess it’s not surprising that devotees of the crappiest, most derivative horror “filmmaker” working today wouldn’t be able to recognize what constitutes misogyny.

    If anything, Rhett should be criticized for not going far enough. Rob Zombie doesn’t just hate women, though he does single them out for the cruelest, most inhuman treatment possible.

    Rob Zombie fucking hates E V E R Y B O D Y.

    There isn’t a single likeable character in his entire oeuvre. Rob so obviously identifies with freaks and killers that he is seemingly unable to write normal human beings who, whatever faults they may have, are worth at least a marginal amount of interest. There’s never an entry point for the average person into his films so I’m kind of surprised he has any following whatsoever, much less one that so willing to stick its head in the sand when it comes to his vile and reprehensible portrayal of human beings in general, and women specifically.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2007
  13. Luna

    Luna Guest

    Rob should include a special feature on his upcoming Halloween DVD, a "Gallery of Outrage" just like the one on the Maniac DVD. It'd be completely awesome.
     
  14. rxfiend

    rxfiend Joe Six-Pack

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  15. onebyone

    onebyone Guest

    *Drools*

    The artwork isnt that great, but I love the UNRATED written across it, that's for sure. That is good news. Gimme that like now.
     
  16. Grim

    Grim Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what exactly is going to be different about the unrated version.
     
  17. fceurich39

    fceurich39 Well-Known Member

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    will probably have alot of workprint scenes included in this new version of the movie
     
  18. MorallySound

    MorallySound Mad Mutilator

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    I'll be picking up the unrated version.
     
  19. rxfiend

    rxfiend Joe Six-Pack

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  20. onebyone

    onebyone Guest

    What were you linking to, rxfiend? It comes back to this thread. If it is more information I want it.

    I wish they would put both versions in the same dvd release like they did 1408, I hate to buy both. If they go with the workprint cut, there's elements of both versions I want.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2007

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