Halloween "Resurrection"

Discussion in 'Slashers' started by Loced Out Demon, Jul 13, 2002.

  1. DefJeff

    DefJeff Franca Stoppi's #1 fan

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    3,112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Hamden, CT
    it seems like people are coming up with all these angles to this movie to make excuses for a lame flick

    "you mighta thought it was crap the first time!! there is more then meets the eye, trust me-- michael is really a robot, you just gotta watch it 2 more times and you will see that from a technological point of view it makes sense!"
     
  2. rhett

    rhett Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    9,395
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Canada
    It is funny, in the same thread we get one polar side of people complaining that people are dismissing horror as simplistic and without its social undertones and qualities. While there are others who are arguing that people are looking too much into the thematic elements of the film and giving the films more credit than they deserve. A diverse bunch, indeed. ;)
     
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    This isn't specific to this film (I haven't even seen it yet), but I hate, HATE, HATE when people read too much into things. It says more about the individual than the film. They're looking for a way to be clever, whereas the film (or whatever) was just out to entertain. I love when they get caught though, for example a movie critic when he spotted some "influential films" of Raimi's after viewing EVIL DEAD. Funny, he had never seen them...
     
  4. betterdan

    betterdan Guest

    Damn mcchrist that was an excellent way of describing things. You sound very well educated. Wish I could express myself in words like that seriously. Also fistfuck sorry if I offended you by saying screamy bopper. I just don't really care for any of the new horror that's coming out except maybe House of 1000 Corpses but if you enjoyed H8 then that's ok with me. I just won't be seeing it, but to each his own. Again no hard feelings as long as you recognize 70's and early 80's horror movies are THE best. :D
     
  5. Fistfuck

    Fistfuck Slowest to 2000 posts

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    S Philly
    eh

    ARGH! I'm not saying that horror films are simplistic or without any social relevance! I'm simply saying that they are to be judged by different standards than other movies. You can't compare a classical album to a death metal album!

    Jog, which theater did you go to? The one we went to, at the Lehigh Mall, was PACKED on Friday. Not sold out, but there was very little sitting room. I am aware that there is little gore in recent horror movies because they are being dubbed teen flicks, but it's not without blame. We can point it back to Scream, which IMHO is a fantastic movie, and it's influence. If Scream was a bit more hardcore, than teens might have been turned off, or been unable to view it. But unfortunately at that time the horror genre was nonexistent, and Scream is probably the reason Jason X and Resurrection were made. Regarding your statement about the MPAA worried about children watching gore, I once read that the board had such a good time with Jason X that the allowed to keep most of the gore intact and hoped that its release will prompt the return of violent horror films.

    Rhett, unfortunately I didn't see that theme. That doesn't mean it wasn't there, I just didn't pick up on it. Unless it's overly blatant, I usually pick up on theme in repeated viewing. But it is an interesting idea. You might also be able to see the struggle between Laurie and Michael as not only does evil never die, it also never ages.

    AndrewBBD, you're correct in saying that reading into a film, or any medium of art for that matter, says more about the individual than the piece. A person views and contemplates based on the sum of his prior experiences. You can see anything you want to in a film or book or painting, and it may or may not be there. It may or may not be a positive thing. But this is the basis of art. You're supposed to draw into a piece your views and your experiences and exit with a clearer sense of your own ideas. I always knew that greed was bad. But watching American Psycho showed me, through metaphor, the destructive nature of greed and saw that it was tantamount to murder. Now this is all the author and director's opinion, and you're not to take everything they say as Word of God, but through meditating on the film or book, it enhanced my own moral standings and beliefs, as art should do.
     
  6. rhett

    rhett Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    9,395
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Canada
    Re: eh

    I completely agree with you here Fist. I think that is the beauty of cinema and all art in general. Watching a movie or reading a book is a different experience for each person taking part in the viewing process. With math or science or whatnot, there is usually a concrete explination for everything, but with art, the interpretations are limitless, and still all valid and acceptable.

    If film was the same for everyone there would really be no point in these forums, as we would just be reiterating the same points over and over. That is why I think people's interpretations of possible themes and questions are all valid contributions. True Andy, there are times when people reach for some extrordinary meaning that just doesn't really suit the film, but I think such questioning is admirable. Because it shows they care about the film and they want to perhaps examine it on another level. I'd rather someone say "I think this movie was going for a commentary on society, blah blah" than just simply put "this film sux". ;)

    For me personally, I enjoy reading all opinions, because I think they give a better scope to the film's meaning. I am starting to bore myself though, so I will stop, but I just wanted to throw my $.02 in on another interesting topic. :)
     
  7. novaguy2000

    novaguy2000 Guest

    Am I going crazy, or did Tyra Banks disappear in this movie until we see her dead body? In the commercials on TV, there's a scene with her looking scared outside the house, and many publications (print and online) show a still from the film with her sitting down, with Michael coming up behind her. I don't remember any of this from the movie. Did I sneeze or somthing, or was this all cut? (C'mon, DVD extras!!!)
     
  8. Jog

    Jog Guest

    Re: eh

    I went to a Cinemark in Moosic. There are other theaters around, but everyone usually goes to that one, as it is far and away the best in terms of size and AV equipment. Many seats filled!

    As for Jason X, it's nice to see that the MPAA enjoyed it. But I've seen too many earlier gore films. Jason X had that neato head smashing scene, but (wide release) movies today never have anything as insane as say... Maniac or Sleepaway Camp. Then again, the definition of "wide release" was very different then... maybe the market itself is to blame (not wanting to offend/disgust too many people to maximize profits)...

    And as for theme... hmmm... I dunno guys. Considering there is a huge speech made on human darkness by the psychology professor near the beginning, which is then propped up in the various character introductions, and added to the fact that Michael is ONLY beaten by technology, I frankly don't think I'm stretching too much. And I'm pretty sure I said that the theme was only attempted... I openly admit there's not enough support given in the movie to fully realize such feelings. They went for the easy-ass "OH MY GOSH THE MEDIA IS MANIPULATING US AND THEY'RE VULTURES DOOD!!!" route.

    And if I may be philosophical, I'd rather err on the side of reading too deep, than taking in art too shallowly. Not that I want to insult anyone here... and hell, I get pissed when people go too far with this too (have you HEARD some of the theories about the "meaning" of Tim Burton's "Planet of the Apes"? WOW)...
     
  9. Jog

    Jog Guest

    Didn't the movie go through some serious post-production fiddling? Buster giving Michael the location of Tyra really suggests that there was a death scene for her... maybe it was cut? Some of Buster's dialogue seems to have been re-dubbed too...
     
  10. kiddvideo

    kiddvideo New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2000
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
  11. mcchrist

    mcchrist A new breed of pervert!

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2001
    Messages:
    7,998
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Keepin' the dogs away...
    I appreciate it, honestly. Just doing my job.

    In regards to the following statement:

    This is where I disagree with you Fist, because as with film and art in general, film is film. The only difference between one and the other is the overall vision. You cannot pidgeon-hole a film just because its horror, or a drama, or a comedy the same way you can't pidgeon-hole people for their ideals or views or race or whatever.

    You can compare cross-genres through editing, lighting, etc. That's easy. You can also compare them through directors, actors, that's also easy. It is challenging, however, to note similarities across the board, but in all honesty you can. For instance, in this thread Jog mentioned a theme of "human darkness vs. technology" in Halloween 8. Why not write a comparison with 2001, which also has a similar theme? Or let's abandon the "human darkness vs. technology approach" and let's compare Halloween 8 to Citizen Kane, I wouldn't compare the technical merits between the two, because Halloween 8 is just not going to cut it (no pun intended). But there is a budding character analysis:

    Michael Myers has felt disillusioned with his family, in particular his sister, at childhood. Perhaps through jealousy, perhaps through lust, or according to part 6 an evil cult drove him to madness.

    Kane cries out for "Rosebud" in his dying words. This man has been driven into pain and emptyness through materialism. Rosebud represents his longing to have his childhood returned.

    There are always similarities and contrasts, you sometimes have to think abstractedly about it. Remember, there are even similarities between a refrigerator and a cat.

    I could write an overblown thesis using the exact same methodology.

    Think of criticism in terms of mathmatics, according to the first rules of calculus, look at the wall closest to you, in my case that would be about four feet away. Look at a stray object near to you, I will use an empty coke bottle for example. According to the first rules, if you were to throw the bottle, it would never hit the wall. the reason behind this is that first the bottle would have to travel half that distance, then with the remaining distance it would have to travel half that distance again, and with the remainder we have another half. It would be a curve, the bottle would never hit the wall. Not the later rules of calculus would explain how the bottle can hit the wall. "Fuzzy logic." In some instances, 2+2=5. Nothing can ever be absolute, Fist.

    But what really struck me, however were your comments on classical music and death metal. I hate to tell you, but there are more similarities between metal and classical music, than any other form. In classical music, there is a split in categories, such as: waltz, symphony, concerto, fuge etc. etc. You then have, power metal, heavy metal, NWOBHM, doom metal, metal core, black metal, death metal. You could begin from there. You could also compare expression, you can even compare technical merit and skill, try Wagner and Edge of Sanity:

    [​IMG]

    vs.

    [​IMG]

    You will find more similarities between the two than you wouldn't. There are similarities between style, tone, delivery, emotion, attitude, and even story content.

    I understand your point, but you gave a bad example, classical and metal are easily cousins. I think it would have been more appropriate to say classical vs. gangsta rap, but even then you could do it if you chewed it over long enough.

    Anything possible, anything permissible.

    Five tons of flax.
     
  12. Fistfuck

    Fistfuck Slowest to 2000 posts

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    S Philly
    mcchirst, of course you can compare anything based on any set of standards, but that's from a technical standpoint. I'm speaking through an intentional standpoint. The director of a horror movie and the director of a timepiece are going to have two seperate sets of goals in making their respective movies.
     
  13. mcchrist

    mcchrist A new breed of pervert!

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2001
    Messages:
    7,998
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Keepin' the dogs away...
    As with everything else, agreed. But what determines a horror film and what determines a "timepiece"? The individual, as as you are saying that most horror films are mediocre and sophmoric, compared to say something like Chinatown or Dr. Strangelove. I will disagree with you because you cannot hold the standards of one genre by the whole of its tripe. Horror is abused, it seems the intentions are the cheap thrill and the laugh and the good time. I support horror because it seems it is very rare for something fantastic to come are way (coincidentally, I hold the same for drama and comedy and science fiction as well, I'm not buying the weepy flowing John Williams soundtrack and the lead actor busting into tears routine. An "oscar quality" drama is a dime a dozen, and critic and money driven, and in turn becomes more shallow and meaningless than horror.) Horror directors, the good ones, are more dedicated to the material than some manufactured Tom Hanks epic. The horror director creates films that they themselves would like to see, not the masses. To jump on the oscar band wagon, in my opinion, is in your words "lowering your standards" because its all contrived. And that's the tragedy of horror is that there's too much tripe to deal with before you find a quality cut, I would much rather see Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer or Texas Chainsaw Massacre (a much better Vietnam movie than anything Oliver Stone could vomit forth.) anyday instead of A Beautiful Mind.

    Any 3 year old can work at the corporate think tanks and come up with a "timepiece". And even then it becomes ephemeral in nature.

    Good horror takes skill.

    Its bullshit to think that lowered standards have anything to do with horror. Its only because the industry is diluted with bad sequels, and fake-ass sellouts who's only background in directing have been Gap commercials and Britney Spears videos.
     
  14. thrashard76

    thrashard76 Guest

    A side note...

    Edge Of Sanity's Crimson album totally rocks mcchrist. ;) One track 40 minutes long and all story...a great masterpeace indeed.
     
  15. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Shit, sorry for this, but I need to just sneak something in. I haven't read this whole post, so I could've missed something, but if you'll allow me to backtrack a bit...

    Mr. Fuck (like Jog said, no offense, just like the name :) ), Rhett, I in no way meant that films mean nothing more than the obvious on screen. Hell, I'm the last person who would, which you could find out from my various posts and several reviews. Everything has a deeper layer, and no matter what, I feel any good film tries to hide something from the audience (whether it be obvious or not, it's there). I simply find it amusing when people make connections when there simply aren't any (like the Raimi thing). Maybe it wasn't the best thing to say, I just knew it was something that bothered me so I mentioned it. I suppose it didn't come out too well. But I completely agree, watching films as carefully as we all do, it'd be pretty hard to not look beyond the obvious limitations of what we see on the screen. If we don't think about it, what's the point? :D

    P.S. - Anyone else think it's hilarious that a post about HALLOWEEN 8 starring Busta Rhymes and Tyra Banks has generated three pages worth of verbose posts delving deep into the underlying means of how horror films are judged based on other art? Hehe...:D.
     
  16. KillerCannabis

    KillerCannabis Slow, Deep & Hard

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    5,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    So Cal
    Yea, this ongoing thread really should have its own post. The fact that all this intellectual conversing is on a thread for H8 almost makes it sound like the movie actually had underlying themes. Well, maybe the running theme that it absolutely sucks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2002
  17. Mikass

    Mikass Guest

    What i think they should of done is either two things:

    1. Have the internet shit thing at the beginning of the film and the ending should of been with Michael killing Laurie and handing the knife off and walking away then credits roll...

    or...

    2. Have the entire film based in the mental hospital and have Michael stalking Laurie ala halloween 2..this would of had lots of suspense seeing how it was Rick who directed the second and he would know what too be doing...i know it may of seemed like a rip-off of 2 but still would been better then this internet shit...plus instead of michael being killed at the end it would end the same as before, him killing her and handing the knife off and retiring..
     
  18. Fistfuck

    Fistfuck Slowest to 2000 posts

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    S Philly
    Is it just me or did this last post seem totally out of place? hehehe..

    mcchrist, I feel that the majority of horror is sophomoric and even less than mediocre. Horror is my favorite genre, but I feel that very few films go beyond the norm of what most horror movies are. I feel that horror movies can be just as contrived and economically-motivated as an Oscar picture can be, which is why many people from my film school want to start out by making horror films (though I can tell that they're not really fans). Horror is often times the springboard for a director to jump into the mainstream. Look at Raimi. He created Evil Dead, and now he's making 3 really lame blockbusters back-to-back.

    If a film does manage to go beyond the norm enough to really engage me, I believe this is what true horror is about. Hellraiser and In the Mouth of Madness made you think and made you wonder. It created worlds within worlds and shared the horrors and fantasies of its creators. It "moved" horror forward. The majority of horror is drivel that repeats the same formula because it was successful before. That was the sole reason behind the creation of the Friday the 13th series, inarguably one of my favorites. I read an article in Fangoria where Sean Cunningham stated that they attempted to repeat the Halloween formula in hopes for similar success. Now guaranteed every horror director is not like Sean Cunningham, but then again not every horror director is like Dario Argento or Clive Barker.
     
  19. mcchrist

    mcchrist A new breed of pervert!

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2001
    Messages:
    7,998
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Keepin' the dogs away...


    ***McChrist intent on his purpose, laughs maniacally, his hands gleefully playing across the keyboard...***

    heheheheheheheheMUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

    Indeed... :p



    Agreed! I'm retiring from this thread, but my whole point is that the very statement you made above does not apply strictly to horror. (There are more fantastic horror films out there than you think...) In fact, the above statement doesn't apply strictly to anything. And that's why things are fucked up.

    But alas, I must bid you all a fondue...

    :D

    Hail Eris!

    J.H. "Did you know that they put Menudo on DVD?" McChrist
     
  20. Mikass

    Mikass Guest

    Sorry i was just posting in the topic that was Halloween Resurrection didn't read the last few pages..hehe...:)
     

Share This Page