Haute Tension (2003) VS Maniac (1980)

Discussion in 'Reader Polls' started by Ash28M, Oct 16, 2008.

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Slasher Battle

  1. Haute Tension (2003)

    36.5%
  2. Maniac (1980)

    63.5%
  1. Kim Bruun

    Kim Bruun Resident Scream Queen

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    Isn't it possible to have a minority villain whose evil isn't directly tied to his or her minority? I don't recall the exact number, but let's say that 1 person in 20 is gay. Wouldn't it make sense then that 1 movie villain in 20 would be gay? Or 1 gay protagonist in 20? Obviously, we don't have the 1-in-20 ratio, because popular movies seem to to adhere to the thought that a straight movie goer has more difficulty relating to a gay protagonist than a straight one (which I always found puzzling, as I never had any problem relating to straight protagonists). As for Haute Tension, I was always aware that one could read two pretty opposing messages into it, but I still have no problem enjoying it as one of my scariest movie experiences ever. I am outraged and disgusted by how blatantly the human rights of homosexuals are disregarded in, say, Russia, but I simply don't feel disenfranchised, vilified, or personally offended by a movie such as Haute Tension.
     
  2. Kim Bruun

    Kim Bruun Resident Scream Queen

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    That is an EXCELLENT point. I watched HT with a young straight woman, and when Marie sets out to rescue Alex, she said: "I don't care if Alex isn't a Lesbian, she had better want Marie by the end of this movie!" :)
     
  3. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    I don't love what I'm about to do, just once I'd prefer to take the road less bull-in-a-china-shop (this once I realize I'm mixing metaphors)...

    But if Dressed to Kill is indeed transphobic (I'm not challenging that opinion because I'm not trans), what does this do to Psycho, The Tenant, The Silence of the Lambs, Hatchet for the Honeymoon, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (and sequels), any narrative that includes cross-dressing, sexual identity "confusion" or trauma (Argento's Four Flies on Grey Velvet)?


    Even I don't think that. And not that I have to defend myself anyway (I know you're not the one expecting me to).

    What I said was that he used and exploited queerness to make a name for himself. To get attention. God knows there are enough people telling us no one should acknowledge the fact that the killer turned out to be gay to begin with, almost all of these people straight. Well, Mr. Aja got his fame and I think I'm well-within my right to put the spotlight on him and criticize him for it.

    Like I said- he's mostly famous for remakes anyway. What a legacy... (Sarcasm.)


    Don't tell other people what to do, think, feel, etc. You are not the only person on the internet. And nobody asked you to improve their lives, or are you too stupid to understand that? You can't control other people's conversations or argument styles and tell them what they are and are not allowed to say. What priorities they're allowed to have.

    It is amazing that some people need to be told this, let alone so many times.


    Because he didn't think of it himself.

    I don't know if we've all noticed, but these days: nobody knows what's offensive like straight white males. They're the experts on everything. Which is the only reason we keep them around. (Well, that and I assume most of the writers on BoJack Horseman are SWM's.)
     
  4. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    I really don't care What other people think about Haute Tension. Really don't. It's like with every post I make on this board expressing a dissenting point of view: try being gracious considering you have the majority opinion and that that won't change if I don't happen to agree with it. Stop getting antsy because you realize just how deeply someone believes that the majority is wrong and isn't in any mood to change their mind.

    I've said it time and again and it's true: people really are always looking for some truce-point that has to be made on the ground of "well, you know most people don't agree with you, so we'll also agree that you don't have as much evidence or substance to support your opposing minority viewpoint." No, I won't agree with that. If you think I make an argument poorly, that's all it is. Not a wrong argument but a potentially very indeed Right one possibly made poorly. And different people except different arguments anyway, there is no overriding standard. So, there's that too.

    Now, if you desperately want to define what's offensive and what isn't here, I'll throw you a bone and say: this movie is too stupid to take seriously. Me and Matt likely disagree here quite strongly. Nothing about this film offends me. I'm an adult. Most movies don't offend me, nor do I give a shit who has what opinion on what I think about movies. I've made this clear countless times on this board. I'm annoyed by the entitlement people like Aja feel with their usage of any subject matter they have no experience with. People's lives they haven't lived. Identities they can't guess their way through. Capitalizing and exploiting people for their own gain. Who the fuck said straight white males are the authority on everything? That annoys me.

    This movie annoys me and the people defending it 'cause they claim it's just a slasher annoy me too. I'm not going to apologize for it or take it back because it bugs stupid straight white men who think everything really is equal now because they say so and it's just the people who complain too much who ruin it for everyone else. (Funny how it's always up to the minority to change. If you're a woman, don't wear short skirts and tight tops. If you're trans, go the bathroom at home. If you're black, don't wear loose or baggy clothing, don't listen to rap or say the "N" word. If you're Muslim, don't wear head scarfs or face veils. If you're gay, don't kiss or hold hands in public. The majority is always right? Who the fuck said that?)

    It's an objective fact that the killer is a lesbian, she is portrayed as so threatened by the world's most reductive, spiteful reading of the killer from Audition's motivation of "if there are others in your life, you can't love only me," turning it into a typical viewing of lesbians as brutish, jealous, shrew-y, possessive, and vindictive. To say nothing of the fact that she is not taking no for an answer from this woman she's so obsessed with.

    But, if you thought I hated Haute Tension from the getgo so that's why I'm gunning for it so hard, you'd be right. I give a pretty serious damn how women in horror are portrayed (depending on how important it is to the emotional or intellectual integrity of the film) and the women in HT are portrayed as thought-free airheads from minute 1. Every word of their painfully superficial dialogue hurt my head. I don't know any grown women who talk like that, in fact I haven't heard girls talk like that since the 3rd grade. He downright infantilized these characters. Hence why the film's copious sleaze (reggae masturbation, shower voyeurism, blow job from a severed head) pissed me off. It's not a story, it's some guy getting his damn rocks off. One more example in a long line of men taking something about women and making it about himself.


    On this, we agree.
     
  5. Kim Bruun

    Kim Bruun Resident Scream Queen

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    You lost me here:

    How about taking your own advice? Matt and Natas may have disagreed, but at least I didn't see either of them calling the other stupid. It is possible to disagree or disapprove without being discourteous.
     
  6. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    Example?
     
  7. Natas

    Natas ....on the warm side of the dooooooor

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    DVD fanatic...........man..... you should really consider keeping your posts no longer than sentence or two. As soon as you get passed the 3rd sentence, you've made it quite obvious you have difficulty staying on track. I've said it before.....reading your post sometimes make me feel like I'm on hallucinations. Maybe next month if I'm in the market for some shrooms, think you can do me a favor and write me a few pages of your thoughts? Could save me a few bucks. :D
     
  8. Kim Bruun

    Kim Bruun Resident Scream Queen

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    Gracious as in calling someone stupid? You went after the person when you did that, not the opinion. However passionately someone disagrees with me, I'll listen to or read the line of argumentation so long as the subject interests me, but when someone switches the focus from the argument to the person making the argument, then the discussion is nothing but pointless personal stabs, and those aren't worth my time.
     
  9. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    Funnily enough, that mysterious occurrence might have something to do with the fact that THAT PART OF MY REPLY WASN'T DIRECTED TOWARD YOU.


    Don't even start on this board and who and who doesn't take their own advice. I'm burnt out on policing other fucking people's authenticity. I don't care anymore. I gave it a shot, tried to be fair but people were pissy that I didn't conform to their way of thinking (not arguing, THINKING, as a matter of fact), and now I'm done. I don't care what standards you think should apply to everyone. All people do with that is take advantage of them. I could try and care about being courteous with cuntbreathed jackasses like Natas but they laugh in my face when I try to adhere to one global standard. This board is all about double-standards. So, why the hell not embrace that?

    I never once said I was bound by any principle of mine to be courteous to people who can't get simple thoughts through their thick heads. I have told Natas a dozen times that he is not in charge of telling people what they are allowed to feel, think, say, do, and be offended by. If you read his post, you know he did exactly that. Now you're telling me I'm bound by my own morality to continue going around in circles with an asshole whose arguments literally force the circle pattern? Where did I ever say that? I hear you describing yourself but your morality isn't mine. Natas is a clear anarchist. He doesn't have any standards. Just go with his flow, however he defines that as at any given moment in case he changes his mind, and everything will be cool. It's not about fairness with him. So, fuck him. Trying to give him the reasonable doubt is the very thing he relies on to keep this going.

    Him telling people when they're not being relaxed or what priorities they are allowed to have, THAT is courteous by you? You've never heard that rudeness comes in different forms? Well, that's your problem. Not mine. Don't reply to me with anymore of this hogwash. Come back with something concrete.
     
  10. SaviniFan

    SaviniFan I Have A Fetish

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    Well, this thread went down the shitter.
     
  11. Natas

    Natas ....on the warm side of the dooooooor

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    It was a really good debate for a while there. I enjoyed it. Then DVD fanatic came in and injected his perfected style of retard like only he knows how to do. I love reading his shit though, he's one of a kind. I've been called some names before, but cuntbreathed is a new one. Lol
     
  12. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    The joke's on you, dildo: if it weren't for people like you, I wouldn't sound so cynical.

    You're the one who entered this thread claiming other people didn't love horror as much as you just because they were critical of certain movies. So, yeah, I'm the one who sunk this thread. Sure.
     
  13. Mok

    Mok Family is Forever

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    Whenever I get cuntbreath I usually brush my teeth and rinse with Listerine. Usually. :p

    So my good friends, is Maniac heterophobic? Frank's sexuality plays a big part in that film.
     
  14. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    Is Frank ... not supposed to be straight?

    I swear I never got that impression.

    Also, to very much get technical (and accurate): for heterophobia to be a thing in the least, the person exhibiting symptoms would have to live like Catherine Deneuve in Repulsion because their fear is so crippling and have constant hate crime fantasies (delusional terrors) all the time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
  15. Natas

    Natas ....on the warm side of the dooooooor

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    Ahhhhh, you're a gentleman, sir. I usually go in for a smooch. Give and take, ya know LOL
     
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  16. Mok

    Mok Family is Forever

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    Is Marie ... not supposed to be gay?

    She was a protagonist while being gay for most of the film while Frank was the antagonist while being straight for all of that film. o_O
     
  17. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Lol heterophobia. That's new. :)

    ~Matt
     
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  18. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I'm sorry, were you saying something? I thought I heard you say gay and straight people were equally discriminated against for their sexuality. But that couldn't have been right.
     
  19. Natas

    Natas ....on the warm side of the dooooooor

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  20. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    The truth is often a hard card to trump.
     

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