LD on HD

Discussion in 'Laserdisc' started by Paff, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,064
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    SoCal
    I guess this could be posted in either Laserdisc or High Definition.

    Based on a conversation in a thread between Dave and myself, I'm wondering how some of you have done with Lasers on HDTVs. Obviously, you are not gonna get anything even approaching HD quality, or even anamorphic standard def DVD, but I'd like to maximize my Laser performance. After previewing a few discs, I've noticed that the wider the ratio on the LD, the worse it looks on my 42" 720p plasma. Full frame LDs actually don't look bad, if you can believe it! 1.85:1 is ok too, but scope just looks horrible no matter what I do. This does make sense a bit, as you are using the fewest lines of resolution.

    I want to pick up one of these: http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5281. At my film festival in October, I had to turn some standard def sources (DVD and DigiBeta) into a 1080p projector. I used a similar product from Gefen, component-to-DVI, and it performed amazingly. It was not HD, but it's the best I'd ever seen standard definition video projected in a theater. Hopefully that composite-to-HDMI will make the lasers decent.

    Anyone else had any luck?
     
  2. Dave

    Dave Pimp

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 1999
    Messages:
    7,187
    Likes Received:
    360
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    The other option according to everyone at AVS Forum is getting an HLD-X0 or HLD-x9. Cost would probably be $1000-$1500 I imagine. Apparently those have a narrow laser (due to supporting Muse LD) that makes them put out a remarkable image.
     
  3. ekent

    ekent The Lord's Arm of Justice

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,336
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    North California, South Alabam, and little towns a
    Paff, the newer A/V receivers convert analog signals up to 1080p (such as the Sony STR-DG920), perhaps that could be an option for you. It doesn't cost much more than the product you linked and might be a more cost effective option.
     
  4. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,064
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    SoCal
    Well, buying a $1K player is out of the question. I'm dedicated, but not a fanatic. I'm trying to be as practical as possible.

    I'm pretty sold on the scaler. For one thing, I know I can get it cheaper than what I listed there, that's just the manufacturer's site with the most info. Since the ONLY thing that does is scale video to HD, I trust it more than something like an A/V receiver which does several other things as well. Plus, if you go into the manual on the Gefen, you'll see that it has many settings which will allow you to tweak the video. On the one I used for the film festival you could toggle back and forth between anamorphic and standard, as well as pick the output size (720 or 1080). They're pretty versatile units
     
  5. Dave

    Dave Pimp

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 1999
    Messages:
    7,187
    Likes Received:
    360
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Keep us posted, Paff. I agree with you how being a fanatic, but I am looking into getting my "final" LD player sometime in 2009. Doubtful it will be a HLD-x9, but I may revisit the LD-S9. It won't be until later in the year. Keep us posted on the scaler.
     
  6. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,673
    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Toronto
    Hey guys, in case you missed it, there's this format called DVD with vastly superior image quality to LDs. And hey, they upscale too! ;)




    *Nah I'm just kidding. It's a nostalgic thing, I know, I know.

    ~Matt
     
  7. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,064
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    SoCal
    Now, I know you're just taking the piss there Matt, but click on the link in my sig, and you'll see why keeping Laser active is pretty necessary in my home theater. Yes, several of those titles are already re-purchased on DVD, with a lot more to come. But a lot of other movies fall into that zone of "I want to keep it in my collection, but I don't like it enough to warrant a double dip"
     
  8. elahrairrah

    elahrairrah Guest

    I hooked up my CLD-R7G to my friends' 50" plasma merely through S-Video and it looked pretty darn good to me. My friends were impressed as well, because they thought that LD was old tech, and would look like crap.

    Though if you have a HUGE screen, and none too sure about the internal de-interlacers and scalers in your HDTV, you can always invest in a better scaler. Of course that is a pricey solution.

    I'm none too sure about devices like that one posted in the first post, but if you're seen it in action, then I guess scaler technology has gotten a lot better and a lot cheaper in recent years!
     
  9. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,673
    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Toronto
    Yeah, that's honorable. But hey, you have the Criterion of Carrie! I've always wanted it, seeing as how it has a commentary exclusive to the LD and all.

    But to be honest, I really want a LD player, as I have the Criterions of Halloween and Taxi Driver and I really want to listen to the commentary by Scorsese. :eek:

    ~Matt
     
  10. elahrairrah

    elahrairrah Guest

    Yeah, you know what? I really want Terror in the Aisles and Scream Greats: Tom Savini on DVD. Oh wait, they're never coming out on DVD. Thankfully I have the Laserdiscs! :D
     
  11. Uncle Jay

    Uncle Jay Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    NJ/NY
    Your Terror in the Aisles LD, is it the That's Shock! Japanese Import or a bare bones Universal LD release? I'm curious because I've been searching for the bare bones LD release, but I'm not even sure it exists. I know that there's a CED LD release, but what good is that, haha!

    -UJ
     
  12. elahrairrah

    elahrairrah Guest

    As far as I know (and according to the Laserdisc Database) there never was a US released LD of Terror in the Aisles. Makes sense because the movie's release was around the time MCA/Universal wanted very little to do with Laserdisc after the DiscoVision debacle at that point.

    I have the Japanese That's Shock LD. Though in addition to the SelectaVision CED that you pointed out, it was also released on JVC's VHD format in Japan (also under the title That's Shock.)

    So other than VHS, those are the only ways to get this movie (if you don't count that mucked up version they show on FearNet!)
     
  13. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,064
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    SoCal
    This got me thinking, as it's long been accepted that composite is a better option for LD than S-Video. Now, I did look at the specs on the R7G, and it seems to have a pretty good comb filter (the logic goes that LD is inherently a composite format. If you use the S Connection, you are using the comb filter in the player. If you use the composite, you're using the comb filter in the TV. In general, TVs have better comb filters than LD players).

    Anyway, I did try the S connection on my 704, and I have to say it looked absolutely horrendous. The composite was much better.

    I'm still gonna try the scaler though.
     
  14. elahrairrah

    elahrairrah Guest

    The 704 has a decent comb filter, but still only 2D. Most HDTV's are incorporating 3D filters (and good ones finally.) So yeah, you'd be better off with the composite for that one.

    I used to have a CLD-79, which is basically the same machine as the 704, and it does provide a good picture with the right connection. The line-doubler I used only had a 2D filter as well, so I ended up using S-Video for this player often. Only when I connected it to a newer model HDTV would I use composite.

    The R7G's filter is a 3D filter, but not the same one as the more highly vaunted LD-S9 and HLD-X9 as most people say (those two have a Mitsubishi filter, the R7G has a slightly newer NEC filter.) I use S-video for that for everything except for capturing LD video to my computer.

    Let us know how well that scaler looks! If it does you well, hell, I might get one!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2009
  15. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,064
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    SoCal
    OK, you get it. Good.

    See, I have friends that automatically assume S-Video is better than composite. In fact, these are the brothers that gave me the Criterion Bonds. One of the reasons they're clearing out their LD collection is that LDs look so horrible on their HDTVs. And they have mid-level Panasonics, not higher end Pioneers like us. I'll bet anything they tried using the S connections.

    My composite connection is still pretty crummy, but miles above the S.

    When I looked up the R7G, all the info was Japanese, but I did see "3D Y/C" in amongst all the Hiragana. I know the 704 does not have a comb filter that good.

    I'm hoping to get the scaler within a month. Want to do some research for pricing...the link above is the manufacturer's site. When we were shopping for our festival, we found the HD Mate Scaler from the same company for $50 less at a different site. I'd go E-bay, but I need a money-back guarantee if the thing does not offer significant improvement.
     
  16. elahrairrah

    elahrairrah Guest

    That's about the only thing that worries me with that scaler. In the specifications, it states nothing about how it does Y/C separation. In fact it says nothing at all about comb filters either. It has to have one (since it has a composite input), but the quality of it is never stated.

    You might want to even consider one of those instead of the scaler, since if you have a quality HDTV, the scaler is probably pretty good, but the comb filter might not be.

    This one here on ebay looks pretty promising:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/KRAMER-FC-10D-C...ryZ21166QQssPageNameZWD4VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    Even uses professional BNC connectors for the composite connections. And they have a 7-day guarantee.
     
  17. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,064
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    SoCal
    Any idea what the level of that filter is? 2-D? 3-D? 3-Line?

    To be honest, I don't know the difference. I've just always owned TVs newer than my LD players, so the comb filter in the TVs was always better.

    That may have changed with the plasma, as having a good comb filter in a plasma is a waste of time and space. And you bring up a good point. The scalers I used at the film festival accepted a component input, which means the signal was already separated properly. The Gefen scaler in my first post may not do a good job of that separation, so upscaled crap is still crap.

    Damn....decisions decisons.....
     
  18. Dave

    Dave Pimp

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 1999
    Messages:
    7,187
    Likes Received:
    360
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    You may want to post on AVS Forum. I have no doubt you will find the answer you need.
     
  19. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,064
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    SoCal
    Here's an interesting article from Josh Zyber:

    http://www.mindspring.com/~laserguru/digitalage.html

    I think I'm gonna skip that comb filter and go for the scaler instead. For one thing, I was doing some adjusting on the TV, and saw an option to toggle on the "3-D Y/C Digital Comb Filter". Now, maybe it's not the best filter on the market, but I'm guessing it's about the same quality as that Kramer model. In other words, I doubt the improvement will be too dramatic.

    Reading Zyber's article, it seems line doubling or scaling is the better option. Line Doublers are kind of extinct. So once I get a little more money, I'm gonna get that Gefen scaler. I'll let y'all know how it goes
     
  20. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,064
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    SoCal
    Last night I watched Rosemary's Baby on laser. First full-length movie I've watched since going HD. It wasn't bad, but I don't remember that disc having a stellar transfer anyway.

    I'm really gonna have to try more discs. One of my benchmarks was Boogie Nights, which always looked fantastic on SD, but looks like shit on my plasma. I should try more discs, like say Austin Powers or L.A. Confidential.

    I have the feeling that while some discs may be very watchable on my plasma, there will likely be several that were ok on my SD but pretty putrid in HD....
     

Share This Page