Legalize Drugs?

Discussion in 'Reader Polls' started by SaviniFan, Apr 8, 2009.

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Should Drugs Be Legalized?

  1. Drugs should be legalized

    29 vote(s)
    58.0%
  2. Drugs should remain illegal

    15 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. I don't care

    6 vote(s)
    12.0%
  1. Anaestheus

    Anaestheus Well-Known Member

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    Baggio:

    I guess my point comes from the idea that drugs will always be a part of society. Once something (a drug) has been created, it can't be unmade. As long as the recipe exists, there will be some fool willing to make it. And as long as something is out there, someone will want it, regardless of whether it is good for them or not. (I'll use Kenny G as an example of that)

    For me, drugs are a symptom. I believe (and I say this as a nicotine smoker) that any drug use is a result of an unhealthy mind. It stems from a need to find some sort of happiness or relief from an outside source and a willingness to put physical health at risk in order to achieve that. All drug use, even in moderation, is a self destructive act. So, until society has a cure for that, drugs will be a present.

    My idea is to get that out in the open so that society can finally try to honestly and sincerely attack the problem of WHY people want to take drugs in the first place. And running with the idea that drugs will always be a part of society, it at least makes sense that we stop letting the criminals get rich off of it.

    I don't like drugs (even my beloved cigarettes) and I'd like to see them go away. But, I think making them illegal is not the method for doing that. Making something illegal doesn't stop it, it only pushes it underground, and in many cases glamorizes it. It didn't work with prohibition and it's not stopping Korea from launching missiles.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  2. Spit

    Spit Active Member

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    my sentiments exactly :cool:
     
  3. SEANVALEN

    SEANVALEN Active Member

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    Booze is 100% legal, but unavailable under 21s.

    I used to think policing drugs was a worthwhile fight, but if you made it legal, how much money and resources could be spent in improving other areas in society like schools and good health.

    Alcohol and smoking kills people, yet they choose to do it. They know a drink or two of beer won;t effect them too much, but if educated and marketed right, no one in their ideal mind would want to have heroin and cocain if legal.

    Use the existing money for those in poverty and creating jobs.

    There will always be people who don't want to glow old and want high kicks, it's their choose, but if we can educate them and police parents in health matters, it may be as efficient as trying to fight it on the streets.

    I say try it out and take a risk.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  4. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

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    I have an observation

    Smoking(regular cigs) is addictive and a tough habit to break.

    So in most major cities, take NY for example. There is a BAN on smoking in restaurants, bars, etc... Punishable by fines.

    And you find little if anybody getting fined , why? because they follow the rules. Bar owners follow the rules & enforce the rules.

    So it ILLEGAL to smoke or to have marijuana in your possession. Punishable by degrees of imprisonment.

    Yet people IGNORE it & fight it.


    Funny, no? One is LEGAL but not allowed in most establishments the other ILLEGAL and not allowed anywhere. Consequences for one is a fine the other is jail.

    Also let's not just make this a uptight US law. Its illegal in most every country in the world to some extent. Some even have the death penalty for it.

    If it wasn't bad or not a problem, this would NEVER be. The not taxed & the US can't make money off of it reason doesn't fly. The whole world is in on this. Go get caught with ANY amount of marijuana in places like Japan, or Poland. You would think the US law was a vacation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  5. Anaestheus

    Anaestheus Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's just poorly worded, but the ban on smoking is not related to the fact that smoking is addictive. It is due to the fact that smoking can harm people other than the one smoking. And I fully support the ban, as do most smokers I know, because of this. I don't want my bad habits affecting other people. But, I am still allowed to buy and smoke as many cigarettes as my poor, blackened lungs will allow me to in ANY environment that permits it. In Chicago, as a result of the ban, several smoking cafes have opened up and some of the bars that I frequent designate themselves as "private parties" in order to still allow people to smoke there. Again, in effect, these are "heroin houses" for nicotine addicts. They are acceptable by law, allow me the freedom that I want, reduce the risk that innocents will be harmed, generate millions of dollars for the local government in taxes, and don't force force me to encourage any illegal activity. That's one more reason why I think similar approaches for other drugs would work.
     
  6. zompirejoe

    zompirejoe Active Member

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    Legalize them. If tobacco and alcohol are legal, then narcotics should be too. Make it all legal, tax it , and stop the fake assed "war on drugs". It would put most, if not all, of the drug lords and gangs out of business too.
     
  7. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

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    Oh you stop spreading those rumors.

    Please explain how just about all narcotics in the US come from drug lords in other countries. And now you make all narcotics legal. So now they have complete free range to ship and sell their goods. And this puts them out of business how? Its a billion dollar business with it illegal and all the trouble of smuggling the stuff in to countries. And now they don't have to worry about that anymore. Whoa!

    And besides. Tax??? Why would I buy it legal taxed. I'm still going to buy it from dealer for cheaper.

    Guns are legal to own in the US (with proper paper, etc.)

    Ever hear of the gun trafficking business?

    That taxed theory is just fantasy. It will never happen. There will ALWAYS be drug lords and gangs with both dealing drugs & guns.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  8. KGBRadioMoskow

    KGBRadioMoskow Well-Known Member

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    In terms of dollars and quantity, marijuana is overwhelmingly the most used illegal drug (technically not a narcotic, but commonly referred to as such). And the primary reason for its import, apart from personal preferences for certain 'regional varieties', is the relative difficulty of cultivating it within United States borders without having the crop located and destroyed before harvest. The actual cultivation process itself is trivial in our temperate climate - even on a small scale, personal use level. Remove that impediment to localized cultivation, and the "need" for import practically dries up. Any attempt to import after that would have to be on a price competitive level (same as any other imported produce), something insufficient to sustain modern drug cartel practices.

    For other imported drugs, "drug lords" maintain their status due to prices maintained by artificial supply limits (supplies siezed, legality and violence impediments to other suppliers entering the market). Legalized, much of the need for the infrastructure drug lords set up goes away. In the short term, drug lords will continue to enforce supply side control through violence, but once local governments cease to provide the additional legal disincentive the long term situation of maintaining such a violence enforced monopoly will be impossible. Some drug lords would, as a result, morph into "businesses", but most would likely self destruct trying to adopt.

    I do think the idea that drug legalization would put drug lords out of business is ridiculous, but (similar to the repeal of Prohibition), it would significantly tone down the collateral misery and violence.
     
  9. maybrick

    maybrick Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah? How many people do you know bother to buy tobacco products from "dealers"?
     
  10. Anaestheus

    Anaestheus Well-Known Member

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    Again, not sure if these are accurate examples.

    The point of gun trafficking is to avoid registration, not taxes.

    And there are currently two taxed drugs on the market (cigarettes and alcohol) and as far as I know there is not a large market for illegally trafficking them. I know that it is possible to buy illegal cigarettes and booze, but I don't know a single person who actually goes out of their way to do this. It's just not worth the risk. If I had the option of buying an FDA approved drug at a higher cost over something that some junky mixed up in his basement over in Tangiers at a reduced price, I'd go for the quality. However, if you know otherwise, please correct me.

    But, you are correct that there will always be gangs. There are plenty of other things that they do (extortion, protection, money laundering, etc.) to keep them in business. Much like after Prohibition, the gangs didn't just die out, they moved into other "markets"

    But I do think that the gang's drug revenue would vanish. I don't think it would be worth the hassle for them and the competition would be too fierce, just like bootlegging has gone the way of the dodo.
     
  11. Mutilated Prey

    Mutilated Prey Soul Stealer

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    Yeah, think of the convenience. Peeps could just walk into their 7-11 (or Circle K, what have you) and pick up a pack of Acapulco Gold Spliffs? Friggin' saweeeeet! The governemnt would make a killing. It's like beer - you can make your own, but it's a pain in the ass and very few have the time or patience to do it. We're all paying the extra couple bucks, or whatever, in the end to buy it on the run purely because it convenient.
     
  12. KGBRadioMoskow

    KGBRadioMoskow Well-Known Member

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    The ban isn't because of the addictive nature of the habit, it is because of the health risks to *other* people. If it was simply an issue of one person screwing up their own health, it wouldn't be the issue it is. And don't give me any shit about "second hand smoke hasn't been proven" - my dad smoked his whole life, and I spent the bulk of my childhood knowing at least twice a year I'd spend at least a week coughing up phlegm with bronchitis. Ended up developing asthma by adolescence - while coming from a family line not known for having asthma. In less than 5 years after moving out, the bronchitis problem was gone, and the asthma symptoms significantly decreased (although its still a problem, affecting my physical activity limits - and I have no doubts as to the cause).

    And frankly the reason why few people get fined is because most people don't complain. Not because they don't want to, but because usually its ineffective. In the city I live in, smoking at bus stops is illegal - and smokers generally don't give a shit, they do it anyway. They know its practically impossible to report them - even if you bothered, by the time a cop shows up they'll be gone. Confront them directly, you usually get a belligerent response from someone who acts like its their *right* to subject the results of their behavior on others (I find it curious that many smokers who violate bans conspicuously position themselves *upwind* of everyone else present, instead of downwind). And every time a smoking ban is proposed, there are protests by smokers and a renewed effort to repeal existing bans. In a nutshell, tobacco smokers ignore the rules and fight the rules - exactly as you state *marijuana* smokers do. Its all the exact same human behavior - people insisting on doing whatever they damn well please whenever they can get away with it. Somehow suggesting that tobacco smokers are somehow more rule abiding is bogus.

    Back to that "if its illegal, it had to be for a good reason" circular argument. That laws have always been passed without prejudice, subjective morality, fleeting passion, or factional pressure - only out of absolute necessity. In effect, blindly assuming there originally *was* sound justification. Frankly I'm confused how anyone could assume the lawmakers of the past were so flawless, given an ample and glaringly obvious lack of any such attribute in today's lawmakers.

    Consider that next time you take a swig, or engage in some more adventurous acts with your significant other (or any act, if they are not of your ethnic group), things (among many others) you wouldn't be legally allowed to do if people hadn't reviewed those laws. What you're stating is curiously hypocritical - that the process that repealed laws against what we now take for granted was once absolutely necessary but suddenly in the modern world has ceased in its usefulness. That somehow we've reached some sort of legal perfection that needs no further review. Its a curious notion, one repeatedly shared by some in each generation and invariably viewed as quaint and naive by the next.
     
  13. maybrick

    maybrick Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. If Baggio ever smoked weed he would know that most potheads don't want to be hassled with inconvenience. They're too busy being mellow! :lol:
     
  14. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

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    This must be a market I'm not familiar with. I didn't realize you can buy cigarettes from a dealer without tax. And by dealer, that would mean illegal. If someone was buying weed from a dealer for the last 20 years, and tomorrow they can now buy it taxed at every corner store in America. They will stop getting it from their dealer?, I highly doubt that. Especially if his dealer gets "better" stuff.

    I know about buying cigs. tax free on Indian reservations. People do that.


    Also how many people would go forth to buy marijuana out in the open in everyday common stores. It would take a long time to become acceptable. Don't forget your talking about a product that has been illegal and a part of our society that is considered looked down on by most people. Its ties to jail, crime, death, etc... has a hell of a track record to it that is hard to shake.

    Think employers want a "known" pothead working for them? Its one thing to hide it from your employer, but out in open is a different story. You think the unemployment rate is elevated now. Just because it becomes legal tomorrow, doesn't make it immediately acceptable. It would be like buying porn. People always give them odd looks. That's why most do their shopping for porn via internet. So I've heard. :D
     
  15. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

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    My point was that owning guns and most guns are legal. But yet it still causes problems. Because people want to own them that shouldn't.

    Like alcohol. Under 21 is not allowed. But yet people want to ignore the laws.

    Legalizing Marijuana would result in the same thing. Just more problems. There is still a problem now, but at least its more or less simple. The US prohibits the possession, usage, purchase, sale, and cultivation of marijuana. And only for medicinal purposes in some states. Follow the law and you will be ok.
     
  16. Mutilated Prey

    Mutilated Prey Soul Stealer

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    Right, there would be a bit of a transitional period, However, the end result should be like alcohol - no one in your office cares if you drink brews after work or on the weekends. We're in a generation right now where pot is becoming more and more acceptable, and it needs to keep heading in that direction. Our parents (for the most part) are the folks who dealt with "drugs are drugs, all drugs are bad, pot is a gateway drug, blah blah" and that's just pure ignorance. Luckily, I work in an environment where most folks believe what you do on your own time is your business. As long as it is not affecting your performance, and you're not bringing into work no one cares, nor should they care.
     
  17. maybrick

    maybrick Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly my point. You generally CAN'T buy smokes from a drug dealer because you can buy it in any old store. It's just not worth their while. The legality of tobacco has made that market unprofitable for them. If cigarettes were made illegal, THEN they'd start selling them.

    Again, GOD YES. You just don't understand. It's all about the convenience. You also don't realize that the legal marijuana that's out NOW is really good shit! Those dealers you talk about with the hypothetical "better" stuff would see upwards of 95% of their business cut off within a year.

    :rolleyes: Unless you happen to live by one, that's HARDLY an option (and completely beside the point). :eek2:

    A lot of people would and it would be a LOT sooner than you think. You don't seem to realize exactly how mainstream smoking marijuana has become. States aren't passing all of these new laws simply for the sake of a small minority.

    You think employers want a known alcoholic working for them? If marijuana is legal and it isn't effecting a person's job, they're not going to know about it. They're certainly not going to be drug screening for it anymore.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  18. Workshed

    Workshed a.k.a. Villyan Shit

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    [​IMG]

    Just sayin'.
     
  19. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

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    Who are you talking to?, I never said any of that. ???



    Ok , just about every country in world has laws against marijuana use in some degree, let alone any narcotics laws for heroin, crack, etc... And I can't believe that all of these countries are flawed in their view. Interesting. Were not talking about one small town in the US. The world shares many of the same views on marijuana use.

    Bottom line:

    Dude, I could really care less (well actually not , or I wouldn't be posting here on this thread) take any drug you want.

    P.S. - and since I'm the only one taking this side. I'm bailing out. I can't keep going back and forth with multiple people on this subject. Being the only one from the "keep it illegal side" I'm ending this before it gets rough. I'm going to watch some legal porn. :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  20. maybrick

    maybrick Well-Known Member

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    And THAT'S why our side will win in the end. I predict Marijuana will be totally legal in America before it's prohibition reaches it's 100 year anniversary (which would be 2037). :)
     

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