News of 4K Restoration of Suspiria

Discussion in 'High Definition' started by Harry Warden, Nov 4, 2016.

  1. mazon2709

    mazon2709 New Member

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    And some may complain about the loss of the color Green on the Synapse version. I never saw it until it was on VHS originally (which is no way to view this film) so can never be sure about the green being on the original release. I guess only Dario Argento would know what colors are supposed to be on the print. Maybe Synapse can get his opinion on the color scheme....
     
  2. Workshed

    Workshed a.k.a. Villyan Shit

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    Sure is pretty, tho, wow.
     
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  3. roderick

    roderick New Member

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    i am not sure which release you are asking about.i can tell you that the english 5.1 audio track on the new italian release is complete as is the 2 channel english track on the last 84 entertainment release.i am guessing that the new german release will use the same audio.
     
  4. wago70

    wago70 Surviving on nostalgia

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    That color of green is more like the current type of green all the movies have NOW. I think it was color-corrected that way on purpose (maybe the techs are young and everything has to look that way now).
    Synapse has my vote as the truer look.
     
  5. MorallySound

    MorallySound Mad Mutilator

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    As someone with colour correction experience Synapse's is actually more digitally manipulated as far as colour scheme/adjusting the colour of the lights than the Italian disc to create that contrast/Technicolor look, but the Italian disc's colours are not properly white balanced to actual white and brightness/black levels are also darker, more muted. And in specifically the case of the screen grabs where the green/blue difference is between the transfers, on Comparison 2, you can actually see Synapse's digital push to change the lighting to a more dynamic blue light by looking at the bottom of Jessica Harper's dress where you can see the blacks of the bottom of her dress actually appear blue because the digital push/colour selection bleeds into that shadow unnaturally on her dress (ie: why isn't the jacket part overhanging also accepting some of the now bluish light and only the skirt has the blue tint yet the jacket has proper shadow blackness?). I do like Synapse's overall look better and it seems to be more correct to intent/style, but at the same time it is clearly more digitally manipulated as far as colours go than the original raw image/lighting scheme.
     
  6. wago70

    wago70 Surviving on nostalgia

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    That Italian release has an uncomfortable teal-ness to it. I'm just sensitive to and the idea that older films have to have that look now. I hate it despite teal being one of my favorite colors.
     
  7. Angelman

    Angelman OCD Blu Ray Collector

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    Not sure if I agree. You can see the door jam catch some of the ambient blue light. Not crazy that her dress might catch a little too.
     
  8. MorallySound

    MorallySound Mad Mutilator

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    I'm not saying the blue tint over the green isn't correct (proper white balance dictates it should be more blue than green), just stating that Synapses transfer has more extensive colour correction/digital manipulation to bring out what was/may have been intended by Argento and Tovoli with their original intent than appears to have been done on the Italian transfer. It's a modern restoration, and Synapse are doing good work to make it look the best it can which means it's already going to look different than it originally did in 1977 with the advancements in technology and the control over colour/light/shadow you now have.
     
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  9. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    It appears to me in the Synapse picture the blue ambient is filling the shadow left by the (blocked ) red light. [Justified as a window] In fact the Italian looks more digitally manipulated to me because you can see where the peaks of the gamma ranges were set to be more yellow, and since the colors in the shadow of her dress were outside those perimeters they were missed. So there is an unnatural drop off in color range in the Italian transfer; not the natural progressions you'd see in nature. That's why I compared it to the alien planet effects of 2001 where they intentionally manipulated these conditions (chemically in 1968).

    It's true though that Technicolor could have a bit of a yellow tinge. It can be a hard balance and sometimes tough to look at a print as an absolute. "Acceptable" is different from "Optimal." Same argument was made with Barry Lyndon when Warner set it to 1.77:1. Kubrick gave the range between 1.66:1 and 1.75:1, but the intent was always clearly more square. So the 1.77:1 transfer on the Blu-ray could be considered acceptable but hardly optimal. Since 1.66:1 is within spec of the format, it's more clearly optimal.

    Suspiria was one of the last Technicolor films in Europe/America and shot on some of the last stocks and rolled out on some of the last printers (before being shipped to China). Were they originally a bit yellow in 1977? Probably. Did they anticipate this? Again probably. Would they consider it optimal? Probably not.

    It's also difficult to set the opening night prints as the gold standard of a release. For example again with Kubrick, The Shining was released initially with a sequence at the end with a hospital. That sequence was cut and never released again in accordance with Kubrick's wishes. I don't see anyone making the argument the current release is unnecessarily cut.

    While there were only a few Technicolor prints, Suspiria was most widely releases in Eastman color. And most widely released in 4 channel stereo. I don't see an attempt to capture that either by 2-channel stereo. You can make a good transfer look like a contemporary print, but does that do the film justice? It's a tough question.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
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  10. Angelman

    Angelman OCD Blu Ray Collector

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    We are nerds.
     
  11. Raf A.

    Raf A. New Member

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    You should all read Torsten Kaiser's posts on this new Suspiria restorations. The new Italian and German releases (the upcoming one) is how Suspiria should look. Personally I'll go with the German blu.
     
  12. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone remember how accurate the colors are on the old Image Laserdisc?
    Been over 20 years since I last saw it, so my memories are pretty vague.

    Gonna see if I can find a rip of the disc, just to compare to the new transfers.
     
  13. delicreep

    delicreep Active Member

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    His posts were referenced earlier in this thread.
     
  14. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    I did read what Torsten said, and he said that the license holder asked him to make the restoration look like the Technicolor safety print. So that's what he did. And I'm sure he did a fine job of it (within reason). The question becomes, does [your name here] want a copy just like the Technicolor safety print?

    I find it hard to believe that when the following setup was done this is the conversation Argento and the DP Luciano Tovoli had:
    Argento :mad:: Hey, why do you have a Blue light on here? I thought we agreed Blue was out. This is a horror film. Films don't use blue to impress night upon the audience; especially not Horror films made in the Bava mold!
    Tovoli :cool:: Don't worry, I spent plenty of time, resources and money to set up this light with the exact light level and graded Blue gel so that after we chemically treat the safety print it's not Blue but with added yellow the exact shade of green as the wall! In fact the audience won't even notice a light there at all and definitely won't get the atmospheric impression that there's a window off camera.
    Argento :D: Good, for a second there I thought you were spending our money trying to make it look like our flimsy sets have four walls. Carry on.

    :rolleyes:

    Now, in defense of Kaiser, he was given very specific guidelines by his paying client. Also, he has expressed that he was unsatisfied with the Italian Blu-ray. Stating that they did not follow his guidelines for the transfer. It's probably premature to judge this restoration by the Italian release. They may have simply set the white or grey levels off making it more flat and greenish/yellow. We've seen it before.

    However, the German release(s) will be following the settings set forth by Kaiser. It may be a better litmus test.
     
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  15. roderick

    roderick New Member

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    i watched this twice this weekend so i thought i would post some general impressions.the video is very good in my opinion.it is darker than the previous blu ray's which is something i prefer.while the older blu's were very bright and sharp i always felt that it caused the film to lose some of it's atmosphere.at first i thought it looked a touch soft at times but then i kept noticing more detail than i have previously seen in just about every scene.i am also happy to report that the blown out contrast of the previous master is absent and all of the scenes affected by it have been restored.on the audio front i checked out both the english mono and the 5.1 tracks.the mono sounds to me like the anchor bay track as it is clean but is missing some of the score in places.the 5.1 is complete and sounds overall excellent.all of the score and dialog are intact and everything is clean and balanced.the only difference i hear in comparison to the previous blu's that i have owned is that in the scene where suzy is leaving the airport the volume of the soundtrack is dialed back slightly.i don't know if that is accurate or not but i like the way it is balanced.it is still powerful but not quite as hard on the ears.
     
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  16. sinister

    sinister Active Member

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    Has anyone spotted a pre-order anywhere for the German boxed set?
     
  17. f.ramses

    f.ramses sociopath

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    D&T has a listing for it.
     
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  18. Zombie Dude

    Zombie Dude Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Arrow will get hold of this for UK distribution... Anyone know who has the rights in the UK at the moment?
     
  19. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Doubtful. Nouveaux Pictures currently has the rights. They have for years.

    ~Matt
     
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  20. The Chaostar

    The Chaostar Johnny Hallyday forever

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    I saw the 4K Italian restoration (with english soundtrack) on the big screen during a fest in Athens, Greece, a week ago. I have seen the film hundrends of times (from 35mm prints). I also have studied about the technicolor process (I teach in a film school for some time now) and I must say that having seen the film so many times the last 25 years, I am pretty sure I know how it is supposed to look. Tha 4K restoration is a wonder to behold. I Have never ever seen this film so alive, so close to it's true colors, so powerful. Really, it was like seeing it for the first time AS I SHOULD HAVE SEEN IT BACK THEN. I am still in awe.
     

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