Salo - Uncut in the UK! Whatever next?

Discussion in 'General' started by DVD Connoisseur, Dec 15, 2000.

  1. ArrowBeach

    ArrowBeach Active Member

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    C.R, I thought Gary Glitter was into young girls, not boys? You are making Glitter sound like he is scoping little boys. You should have compared Passolini with Victor Salva, who actually FILMED his victims, yet unlikely glitter or pasolini, Hollywood actually defended this creep!
     
  2. ArrowBeach

    ArrowBeach Active Member

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    Indiephantom, Jon, United Artist released all Alberto Grimaldi productions in the 70's, like LAST TANGO IN PARIS, MAN OF THE EAST, and all the Pasolini films like SALO, CANTENBURY TALES and ARABIAN NIGHTS. So I wouldnt be suprised if MGM who now owns the UA library wanted to release SALO for 14.99!!! I mean I dont buy Criterions story, for if Pasolini's estate wanted it pulled, how come it is getting released in UK? I think MGM wanted to have the rights back!
     
  3. C.R

    C.R Guest

    OK. let's being eh?
    If you belive in a God of some sort then you may think we are top of the animal chain. If you do not (like me) then you probably see that we are destorying our own planet and other species. We are animals like anything else, albeit an animal in touch with what we are and with some sort of conscience. However, we have no more right to exist on this planet than anything else and, like everything else, I believe that we are just one of many species which have evolved over time. As such, I don not think elephants et al should be exploited and my girlfriend is a zoologist - together we are well aware of conversation of the rainforest (which harbours 90 percent of all species and which we are destroying at an amazing rate very year).
    Very few enviromentalists, conversationsists and those who have broken new ground in protecting such rare species as the White Shark and Tigers are vegetarians. I don't want to ramble about this subject because it is irrelevant to my thoughts on Salo or wahtever and as I said i'm quite active in this sort of thing.
    Laws are there to prtoect. If you enjoy Cannibal Holocaust then that's fine. Some of my friends like it and I don't blast them for it. However, legalising this film with its scenes of animal cruelty STILL breaks laws. This is why these scenes were rmeoved in almost eveyr country it was released. The problem with 'Oh... hey, why don't you let everyone choose' is that this means that they may also choose to see a bullfight or a fox hunt or a dog fight or whatever. You draw the line when the death of a real livng creature is massacred purely for the film camera. I spoke with Nigel Wingrove for my fanzine and he happened to agree with this as would many other people involved in exploitation films.
    I consider myself anti-censorhsip but wanting to protect animals from pointless, horrifc abuse is hardly censorship.
    Chaplin's films don't appeal to me anyway. Sorry. It's like the South Park guys said - it's just not funny anymore. I love loads of old movies, but not Chaplins.
    That aside, I would watch Salo but I just (christ, do I have to repeat this again) said that I have a big problem (with my own conscience) with watching a movie by someone who actively went around trying to pick up strange young boys. This is called paedophilia (learn how to spell) and was illegal the alst time I checked. If you like shagging kids personally and have no problem with it then you probably won't find any problem with associating with Passolini. Do I want to censor the film: NO. However, your freedom of choice thing is hypocritical because you yourself have all said you'd ban child porn or whatever. This shows that we all want to draw lines. I've said I draw the line at illegal practices in a film. Otherwise you WILL have stuff like child porn on the shelves. Anyway, censorship is a dead fuck subject. Anyone with half a brain can get what they want through sources and there are far more important things to get up tight about. Only 3000 tigers left in the world mefriends...

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  4. C.R

    C.R Guest

    Oh yeah, the term 'right' WOULD be correct spunk for brains. I was talking in slang and, as such, I can use any amount of fragmented sentences I want. I have a fucking honours degree in Englsih so if you want to take this further then fucking go ahead.

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  5. mutleyhyde

    mutleyhyde Fuck it.

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    Dude, I don't know who you are, but the second you show up in our little community, you immediately start picking fights. Just go away. And don't e-mail me again. I know you probably will, but I won't be responding.
     
  6. joltaddict

    joltaddict New Member

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    You have got to be kidding.

     
  7. joltaddict

    joltaddict New Member

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    Hee hee!
     
  8. landrvr

    landrvr Guest

    hey!!

    we haven't had one of these "knock-down, drag-outs" in a long time.

    kinda cool.

    my own view is this: i won't support any artist who has taken away someone's basic human rights in one form or another. will i view or listen to that person's art? yes. will i buy it and put money in their pocket? hell no.
     
  9. Squiggy

    Squiggy Guest


    I'm glad you have fully shown the type of true moron you are. Those who need to resort to vulgarity only do so because they have no viable ground to stand on. What's wrong, can't defend your point without showing how hypocritical you are?

    Let's see you answer the following without making a further fool of yourself:

    1) How is Pasolini any different from Polanski or Chaplin? This has nothing to do with whether or not you like Chaplin - it is a simple point. All three had sex with minors, so all three should be the same. Do you believe we should not watch Polanski films either hypocrite?

    2) How do you justify eating meat while ranting about animal cruelty in films? The animals in those films died rather quickly and painlessly compared to the lifetime of torture many "raised for food" animals go through. Practice what you preach. Or do you believe only endangered species have a right to live? No one who eats meat should ever claim they believe in protecting animals. Hypocrite.

    3) How are you anti-censorship if you believe anything offensive to you should be censored? What makes your opinion more viable than anyone elses? Hypocrite.

    4) If we should not view anything created by someone with a fetish for young boys, should (for another example) all the works of ancient Greece be destroyed? From what I hear, many men there during that time period (including artists) had a thing for young slave boys. Where do you draw your hypocritical line?

    Go back and look at your first post. You did not originally say YOU had a problem watching Salo. You asked why ANYONE would want to watch it and then implied we should not do so to restore "morality". If you instead just stated a personal opinion without trying to insult everyone else, you might have found people agreeing with you (including me).

    Go preach in your own fanzine hypocrite. And by the way, you really shouldn't be criticizing anyone elses spelling either...
     
  10. Mark Relford

    Mark Relford Chairman of the Bored

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    Wow, what a thread!

    C.R, there's no need for name calling. And there's nothing wrong with a good debate, but when it comes to name calling and other forms of negativity, then you're not welcome here. Your New York Ripper post was very insulting and it's no surprise that it got taken off.

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  11. C.R

    C.R Guest

    Listen man, you guys need to chill out. The bloke I E-mailed especially. Man, you need a nice looking girlfriend or something. I can't help it that you're sitting at home as a lonely sad individual. I just kinda tried to brighten up your life a bit with some nice comments.
    In case you don't know: I'm winding you up.
    Listen folks. It's nice to have a good debate and i'm glad to see you're all getting into the spirit of it. I laid down my line and I guess I'll have to defend it.
    Well, here goes... Polanski was with a consenting partner of (and if I'm wrong i'm sorry) 15 or 16. In a lot of countries that's cool anyway (including our own UK). Hey i'm not defending it.
    Passolini was actually killed by some young guy he was trying to pick up. He was well known as something of a cruiser I believe. Also some critics have said that Salo throws his own perversions on the audiences lap. I guess that's why I'd feel uncomfortable wathcing it. I'm not into this nor am I into bondage hence I wouldn't watch a bondage video. I don't think ban it... I just wouldn't want to watch it or associate myself with it.
    As for the meat thing: I,m half an half. Something of a white meat diet. Don't like vegetables, but won't eat pigs because - yeah i know all about it. There's some morality there. I know the work of many great conversationsits however (I'll give you a list if you wish) and none are veggies. Is that hypocritical? I don't think so. The sea turtle is dying out in Amazonia, and Cannibal Holocasut hacked one up for no reason. Man, it's like just killing an elephant. We have to realise that some species are over exploited and need our protection. Look at the world - it's a delicate balance and 90 percent of living things exist in the tropical rainforest. That's a balance we shouldn't be fucking with. Breeding cows or whatever for our own use... well, that's the way we've come to survive (regardless, indeed, over whether I eat beef or not). Look, I couldn't be a doctor or a dentist - I just don't like stuff like real blood or anything like that. Hence, I probably couldn't work in a slaughterhouse either.
    Anyway, if you really don't think a horror movie is worthwhile unless a turtle is hacked up then... I dunno. That does woory me. Call me a prude if you want.
    That's my say for now.
     
  12. joltaddict

    joltaddict New Member

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    If you want him to leave you could just tell him the Mods of this forum enjoy sex with children [​IMG] then he would have to leave (according to his previous posts).

    Hey, thats not a bad idea, any of you mods wanna take one for the team?
     
  13. AceRimRat

    AceRimRat Guest

    I'm going to stick my toe into the water and see if something bites my leg off...

    I'll start by pointing out that "pedophilia" is the American spelling, vs. our good friend from the UK's added vowels ("honours"). (I, too, have an honors degree in an English field, and I have a dictionary.)

    I'll finish by offering up my own, personal quasi-common-sense approach to controversial stuff: If you don't like it, don't watch it. Don't pay for it, don't support it, even protest it. If we all ignore it, it will go away. If it breaks laws, the perp will be punished. You don't like Salo, why even give it the dignity of reference - all you're likely to do is encourage people to see it or give it more attention than (you believe) it deserves. My 2-2.5 cents. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.

    And I've never seen the movie, don't really care to, can't afford it if I wanted to, am afraid to ask if it's any good, know nothing about the director and haven't engaged in any sex acts with anyone under 18 since I was a minor, too.

    And I own a dog and love a good steak. [​IMG]
     
  14. Squiggy

    Squiggy Guest

    You don't need to wind people up by insulting them or questioning their morality. Debates are a good thing - even if they become extreme - but not when you start one via personal flames. Most people come to the web discussions to get away from that kind of thing in the newsgroups (which have become nothing but flame wars and troll breeding grounds).


    This is where your point of morality falls apart. You cannot make this distinction because it is convenient. Polanski did molest a child. He's no different than Pasolini (except in terms of the number of offenses). At what age is the moral line drawn? And who decides that age?

    I don't know how old you are, but I'm 31 and looking back at 16 I do not believe all decisions I made in regards to women were correct (regardless of what I thought at the time). A 16 year old is not necessarily psychologically mature enough to consent to sex with an adult. That's why laws against it are in place in many countries - to protect such children against making mistakes because they may not know any better and can be easily manipulated.

    Either way, I see no difference between what any of these people did. And saying it's OK in some countries and not others only further enforces why no one should be judging the morality of it. Different cultures have different beliefs. Historically speaking, 12 was once considered prime marrying age in some societies.

    Just for the record, Polanski was convicted of raping a 13 year old girl. Chaplin married two 16 year old girls - once when he was 28 and again when he was 35.

    Well, it is his film - so why shouldn't it reflect his views (perverted or otherwise)? If the audience doesn't like it, they can leave. I did.


    I'm not comfortable with such things either. In fact, I can't even watch a movie with a rape scene in it. That's one of the few things that can really disturb me. But I still don't tell others they should not watch such films or imply there is some moral issue at large. I think I'm a good person, but that doesn't qualify me to judge someone elses beliefs or opinions.


    This is more than an issue of morality, it's one of contradiction. You cannot say "save the animals" while your fridge is stuffed with their dead carcasses. The vast majority of animal rights activists are very hypocritical on this point. Life is life. Endangered species have no more or less a right to protection than farm animals. I'm sure if given the choice of extinction or being raised for slaughter, most animals would rather just die off. At least the poor creatures that were hunted into oblivion weren't all tortured for years before being killed.


    We could evolve beyond this if we wanted to. You don't need meat to survive in any "advanced" country. It's more a matter of want these days. After seeing what animals were put though just to provide me with something that tastes good, I couldn't justify eating meat any longer. I get physically ill just thinking about the suffering that goes on. I'd rather suffer myself than be a part of it all. Others could make the same choice if it really bothered them.

    In any case, no meat eater has the right to cry over killing animals in films. That is blatant hypocracy. The saddest thing is that people don't even think about it because meat is just something you pick up at the market and you don't have to deal with how it got there. As many have said over the years: if all people had to kill their own food, the majority would proably be strict vegeterians.


    I don't think anyone here would ever say that - at least I hope not. Thinking that way might mean someone is genuinely clinically disturbed. Most serial killers started out wanting to see animals killed.
     
  15. landrvr

    landrvr Guest

    squiggy, for God's sake stop encouraging him!!??

    though i gotta say that 'spunk for brains' was pretty good. is that a scotish expression? Ha!
     
  16. AceRimRat

    AceRimRat Guest

    All right, having stuck my toe out, now I'm gonna stick my neck out...

    IN MY OPINION (take note! just my opinion), I think there's a difference between an animal killed for sustenance and one killed for sport or entertainment. (Yeah, I like a good steak. Heck, I'm practically a carnivore.)

    Doesn't mean I won't buy Cannibal Ferox. Doesn't mean I will.

    Doesn't mean I hate Squiggy. Doesn't mean I'm right and he's wrong. Just means I disagree.
     
  17. Mark Relford

    Mark Relford Chairman of the Bored

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    "Meat's meat and a man's gotta eat!"
    -Farmer Vincent (Motel Hell)

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  18. joltaddict

    joltaddict New Member

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    They do eat the turtle in question, the other rat thing is eaten by a snake. The entertainment is a by-product [​IMG]
     
  19. Mark Relford

    Mark Relford Chairman of the Bored

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    Oops! Sorry for the double post.


    [This message has been edited by Mark Relford (edited 12-27-2000).]
     
  20. C.R

    C.R Guest

    Well I'm gonna shock you all and say I reckon you all have a point. I agree with every one of you guys. I think you're very right about the meat thing. A lot of us would be strict veggies. As for Salo - if I didn't like it I'd leave. I was dissapointed my New York ripper post was taken down as this constitutes censorship does it not? I was merely expressing an opinion on that one! However, I can see it might have offended some people and I guess that needs an apology.
    I'll see Salo in given time, but in the mean time as I said: You've all got points that I agree with here. As for the guy who left... yeah, I can see that this is the best thing to do in the case of a film like that. I'm just more excited about other films being excited since our country softened up its censorship laws and i'm definately looking forward to Zombi holocaust and its like. However, if I can start a new topic - isn't it about time we softened up on Last House on the Left, one of the most frightening films ever?
    Cheers guys, it's been fun (whatever you think of my opinions)

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