The 2 Problems with SuperHero films.

Discussion in 'General' started by Criswell, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. Criswell

    Criswell New Member

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    I caught Electra again the other day on pay t.v..........and whilst Jennifer looked sexy as usual the film sucked. Then i caught the back end of the Hulk..and 2 things hit me, that made me think of other Comic films and why the often dont work.

    First is the totally over the top action sequences that just rarely seem to work wgere things happen for no real reason like the X Men scene with all the water at the end.

    But more to the point, so many of these films seem to drag with the overly long, drawn out and sappily dramatic explanation of the origin of the character. It seems like EVERY comic book film has to spend time on the "birth" issue, which to me causes so many pacing and narrative problems. It just seems to halt the film..like in The Hulk. even sequals like the Batman and Blade films..........keep trawling over the Origin issues.........
     
  2. SaviniFan

    SaviniFan I Have A Fetish

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    I'm certain that alot of the superhero films start with an origin because not everyone reads the comics, ie me. It's kinda nice to know why someone has the powers they do and the motivation for wanting to take on said bad guys.
     
  3. Guyver99

    Guyver99 Member

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    Yeah, I agree. If you didn't tell the origin of say...Daredevil, people are going to be wondering what on earth is so "super" about some dude in a goofy red outfit with horns and a stick.
     
  4. DeathDealer

    DeathDealer I Inhale Horror

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    Hulk was a great movie.

    It was never about the action scenes in Hulk. It was about his inner struggles and toment. We got deep inside the characters and understood their problems and emotions. A fantastic film, and vastly underrated.

    Now, Electra, on the other hand, is utter crap. I won't defend that, but I will defend Hulk.
     
  5. Cujo108

    Cujo108 Guest

    I don't think origin stories are a bad thing at all. I like seeing the origins and the drama that comes with them explored on the big screen. It's much better than just jumping right into the action without ever seeing the hero's roots.

    Hulk and Batman Begins are both origin stories, and I consider them to be the two greatest superhero films to date. So yeah, origin stories are not a problem IMO.
     
  6. 17thJuggalo

    17thJuggalo Active Member

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    I really enjoy the X-Men movie, but as far as I'm concerned, it ruined any chance of any Hollywood superhero movie being remotely good aside from Spiderman.
     
  7. Golgo13

    Golgo13 Guest

    I like what Ang Lee did with Hulk but it's really not what I (and most of America) wanted in a Hulk movie.
     
  8. Criswell

    Criswell New Member

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    Dont get me wrong.............for a film like Daredevil, the origins are appropiate......same as Blade. But tis the constant references to the origin, throught the entire film that (for me) stops the evolution of the character.

    I guess what i'm saying is thatthe entire film does not have to be Iussue #1

    Fantastic 4 is a case in point. The creation took sooooo long, the film became so rushed by the time the action needed to begin
     
  9. Gore Lunatic

    Gore Lunatic Violenza Carnale

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    I totally agree. The Hulk is a great film. I like it more than the Spiderman films. It had more drama and emotion which is what you really don't see in "Super Hero" movies. The Punisher (both films) on the other hand didn't really follow the origins of the comics. Frank Castle was a military vet (not an ex-cop) whose family was killed in a cross fire of a mob hit in New York. Now I ask you, what is wrong with going with that senerio? Nothing. It's realistic enough to put in a movie yet they still changed it. Why? The Punisher is my favorite comic book character ever ( Faust is a very close second-don't get me started on THAT movie) and they fucked up his origin twice. War Castle!!! :fire:
     
  10. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    These films are basically all the same - in other words, they all have paper-thin and predictable plots. If you watch them for the spectacle, they work. If you watch them for something deeper - well - I just don't get it. Each to their own though. The only real reason to watch them, imo, is because they go BOOM BANG and WHAM a lot, very loudly.
     
  11. Criswell

    Criswell New Member

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    Well of course the premise is always going to be iffy.......as is the look of the character. Guys in costumes are still guys in costumes. But i guess your right....its the overall structure of the films that just done seem to work.

    My point about the origins fits in. its just handled so clumsily.
     
  12. Fumi

    Fumi Member

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    That's really the problem - the spectacle does not mix well at all with the touchy-feely "this is why I am like I am now" crap. It's llike a mixture of Armageddon and a Lifetime movie of the week. They want to go 100 mph and they want to go 0 mph. And since it's a superhero movie, who the hell cares about acting, writing, etc. Just gonna be kids watching it anyway, according to the Hollywood braintrust.
     
  13. Surge92

    Surge92 Guest

    That may be true, but in my opinion, Lee defeated the purpose of his supposedly insightful, dramatic film by using some truly horrible CGI effects. I mean, one minute you have Bruce Banner emoting and making you feel his pain, the next you have a Hulk that looks like something out of a video game bouncing off mountains. What the hell is that? Don't get me wrong, I don't think HULK was as horrible as say DAREDEVIL or ELEKTRA, but it wasn't an Ingmar Bergman film either.
     
  14. wago70

    wago70 Surviving on nostalgia

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    The IDEA of an origin explaination is fine, but the first post is right in that so many have gone that "sappy" and overlong route.
    Then there are those not-so-special effects...
     
  15. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Alright - time for controversy (perhaps).

    The main problem with the films is the source material. Comic book writing, while including some dramatic elements, just doesn't strike me as really great writing. No, I no longer read them - and that's partly why. Back in the day (I'm talking 70's here) I'd buy them - and I've flicked through them in comic stores today. That marks me as someone who is far less than an expert. But from what I recall, and what I see today, the magazines arn't deep, they don't innovate, and they're mostly written for the lowest common denominator (I'm talking about Marvel type stuff here, I'm not knowledgeable on Manga etc., and some other smaller lines).

    The films we get today: Xmen, Fantastic Four, Catwoman, Hulk, Hellboy and the rest - include paper thin characters who meet an arch enemy and defeat them - with some love interest thrown in for laughs. There's a thread around here on the A-Team, and how the plots of those were canned and worked. You could basically repeat it in this thread and have it fit. I don't think inlcuding more origin stuff, or any to be honest, matters to me one bit. I just watch these for the noise, the effects, and the monsters.

    As kid/teen movies they can be fun as spectacle though - and they do try and use cutting edge effects. So I watch some of them. Nothing wrong with that.
     
  16. Workshed

    Workshed A Barge Person

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    Yikes, dwatts. There are plenty of great comics out there with high quality writing. I really encourage you to pick up Joss Whedon's "Astonishing X-Men" collected first 6 issues (in a trade called "Gifted"). Very well-written. No paper thin characters. Also, Michael Chabon's The Escapist comics are fantastic--although hardly superhero, I concede.

    Alan Moore's "Watchmen?" Unparalleled. Yes, of course, there are many "lowest common denominator" books out there--and the same can certainly be said for Horror films. Much of any genre's money can be made by appealing to this demographic. But quality examples do exist. If you are interested, seek them out. You might be surprised, finding yourself relating to a grown man who dresses as a bat (definitely give "Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth" by Grant Morrison a try, if you like your Batman insane with plenty of Horror-tinged elements.).
     
  17. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    I have no issue with the more fantastical elements of these plots - I mean, you know that going in. They're really no more way out than a film about a giant gorilla to be honest. :D

    Thanks for the tips - you never know I might grab those if I see them. I don't mean to diss comic books and comic book fans at all - they are what they are. Isn't that the beauty of it? ;)
     
  18. Workshed

    Workshed A Barge Person

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    Very true. And I took no offense, of course. I'm not claiming comics are high art. There are plenty of embarrassing examples even today of terrible comics on the market that sell very well.
     
  19. Crystal Plumage

    Crystal Plumage Dig me..but don't bury me

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    AFAIK the best comic film is Danger: Diabolik.Mwhahahaaaaaaa!
     
  20. Golgo13

    Golgo13 Guest

    The Adam West Batman beats the shit out of Diabolik.
     

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