The Evil Dead UHD - 10/09/2018

Discussion in 'High Definition' started by zbinks, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. horrorlover

    horrorlover Active Member

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    I can't tell any difference on my TV between HDR encoded 4K discs, and regular Blu ray discs. I guess there is some difference just I can't see it. I did not buy a really expensive 4K UHD tv though. This whole 4K deal is what the businesses call perceived obsolescence. They try to make us feel our old DVD's are garbage and that we have to rep0lace them all with blu rays, then they want us all to replace those now with 4K. and rebuy all our films. I'm not playing the game anymore. I have a DVD of Halloween and Evil Dead, see no reason to buy a new copy of either.
     
  2. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    The difference between SDR and HDR are huge. If you can’t tell any difference, then something must be wrong in your setup, or you bought a set that are compatible with HDR, but don’t deliver the full experience, typical of cheaper sets.
     
  3. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    I kinda get what you're saying, but I don't yet know how I feel about the format's longevity. HDR is slightly revisionist in the way colours and shadows are boosted and I can't really see it being applied to say, many old Hollywood films. They were made for SDR, I'm not so sure how much it would benefit those old movies and it would be inaccurate to master them in HDR, meaning they were never meant to look that way.

    However, it greatly benefits more recent films, action/sci-fi etc. The major stuff will come out, in the same way the major titles came out on blu-ray at the dawn of the format, and it's a lot of the same films actually: Close Encounters, Die Hard, Predator, Blade Runner, Halloween, American Psycho, Ghostbusters. But, I don't think I'll be replacing my blu-ray collection the way I did with DVD, and I think a vast majority of the cult/horror titles we collect won't make the jump to UHD, and to me that's fine. A blu-ray newly re-mastered in 4K upscaled to 2160p on your 4K TV will still produce amazing results. Arrow's 4K restoration of Heathers, for example, looks amazing.

    I also find that HDR has more effect depending on the lighting in the room and adjusting your TV settings accordingly. I find in a dark room with bias lighting, HDR looks absolutely incredible. I have a mid-range TV, I have a 55" TCL but for the price range it was one of the best TVs on the market according to reviews and I can definitely tell a difference between SDR blu-rays and HDR UHDs. I find that there's no one perfect setting, especially when watching older films. I constantly have to adjust the gamma, backlighting, etc to produce the best-looking image my TV can manage. And the results, more ofen than not, are incredible. Don't get me wrong, there are some questionable, underwhelming UHD releases like The Mummy Returns, Jurassic Park (that one's a real shame) and Jurassic Park III, but in general, there should be a pretty substantial difference between SDR and HDR on your display.

    I must admit, even with the benefit of HDR, The Evil Dead was kind of a pointless UHD release. It's cool to have it in 4K, but the movie was shot on 16mm with a resolution that maxes out at around 2K. It does have a more nicely resolved grain field though, one thing I've noticed with a lot of 4K discs. Film grain looks glorious.

    I will say though, if you're screening a DVD of Halloween and Evil Dead on a 4K TV, lol dude...it's time to upgrade. ;)

    ~Matt
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  4. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    I can understand it though, and a comparison I do is that I'm not an audiophile so besides some really terrible audio quality it all just goes in one ear and out the other. I know there are those that obsess with it and I myself push for uncompressed original mono tracks whenever possible but honestly I rarely tell the difference. And it is all about the movies folks. A few visual imperfections be damned. That's why I don't mind a few pops, scratches or splices. But it is nice to see the superior compression available on UHD. We're getting closer and closer to having something like the original negatives right in our living rooms each generation. And that's great. Maybe our favorite films aren't pouring out the colors like clowns tumbling from a tiny car but it's still nice to see them as the best that they can be.

    But when you bring your 4K TV home it is setup for show room presentations literally in a big box store for when bright lights are coming at it in all directions. So it needs some tweaking to get it setup for your household. But when it is a good set looks awesome. I still use my Plasma TV and I still get compliments from visitors when they see how rich it looks. Meanwhile my brother in law uses a wall projector that looks all blown out and is a giant smear on the wall. It gets remarks for its scale but soon people complain they can hardly see anything. So you have to be careful. I've been seeing some pretty lousy TVs out there. I just got a hand me down 1080p LCD and it's awful and no matter how much I tweak it I can't do anything to fix how overly bright, smeary and lacking in color depth it is. Although it's bigger than my Plasma it remains in the loft where I mostly use it to hear the audio while I'm working upstairs.

    If Synapse released Suspiria on UHD I'd have my 4k TV already but I'm still kinda waiting for the right time myself. I've bought a couple of 4k titles anticipating them going OOP but we're only now seeing the catalog titles we want. By next fall I imagine Halloween, Evil Dead and a few more will be cheap enough that I've got to jump in.
     
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  5. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    The Halloween UHD is $13 on Amazon right now ;)

    ~Matt
     
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  6. Nailwraps

    Nailwraps Well-Known Member

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    We now have confirmation that the UHD release is a combination of both the tweaked and untweaked versions:

    http://www.dvdexotica.com/2015/07/t...howComment=1539677454084#c4264700020143755447

    "Yeah, these (fortunately? unfortunately?) are still altered versions. Tapert is definitely removed from the blu and UHD versions. They have the lightning strike the tree, though as that Bookofthedead site points out, that had been restored even on most prior DVD versions. The UHD is still fixed to make it look like daylight than night outside when Scott explores the cabin and shed... The shot of Linda screaming around the 36 minute mark is still flipped so she's facing right not left... So yeah, all those alterations are still there.

    But then again, those little background lights around the 34 minute mark are back, the crossfade that smoothed out the jump cut is gone, and the handheld shots at the end have their shakiness back. So I guess, as Alex already commented, it's a bit of a hybrid. The most noticeable changes all seem to still be here, though, so yeah. Basically the altered versions, but a bit less altered."
     
  7. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    Got the UHD disc, and compared to Texas Chainsaw, this actually does gain a bit in sharpness. But it’s the Dolby Vision/HDR that makes the biggest difference. Scenes in the dark look more natural now, with a smoother transitions, without black crush.
    The colors and especially the blood looks great. It’s hard to really explain the improvments with the Dolby Vision, since you can’t show it with screencaps.

    After all the years, upgrading to better versions on VHS, LD, DVD and BD, this is it. The final edition I’ll ever buy... unless they release the UHD in a REAL Necronomicon, bound in human flesh and inked in blood :D
     
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  8. Grim

    Grim Well-Known Member

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    Must not upgrade to 4k. Must not upgrade to 4k. Must not upgrade to 4k.

    These releases make it tempting, though. Maybe if I eventually get at least a 55" 4k set and prices take a dip, I'll consider select titles.
     
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  9. buck135

    buck135 Kanamit

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    I have a 55" and the benefits of 4K are stunning, especially with HDR.
     
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  10. maybrick

    maybrick Well-Known Member

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    To reiterate guys, HDR in relation to something like Evil Dead, is meaningless. It does absolutely nothing to improve the picture quality. Nada. Zilch. The only way you get the benefit of HDR is if the movie itself is shot with digital HDR cameras. The improvement that you are seeing has solely to do with the added pixels that a 4K transfer provides.
     
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  11. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen the movie in HDR?
    There are lots of old movies that look much better in HDR, compared to the SDR.

    The Predator, Die Hard, 2001, The Fog, Close Encounters, etc. blows the SDR versions away, with better shadow details, contrast and colors.

    Juat watch the movies with HDR turned on and off, and there is a big difference.
     
  12. maybrick

    maybrick Well-Known Member

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    Just because there is a difference it doesn’t mean that it is correct. “Better” is a matter of opinion. A lot of people think that movies look better with edge enhancement and the soap opera effect enabled in their screens. Some people probably can’t tell the difference between a 3D converted movie and one shot with actual 3D cameras. HDR is just another example of video manipulation. Simply put, you can’t make colors that weren’t captured in the first place, and the dynamic range of HDR is far wider than could be captured with traditional film stocks. HDR involves the blending of multiple exposures into one frame. Older cameras couldn’t do that obviously.
     
  13. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    I ask again, have you seen Evil Dead in HDR? ;)

    And this is nothing like edge enhancement and soap opera effect, those bring a negative effect on the image and motion, this doesn't.
    UHD uses HDR by increasing the color depth to 10 bit, and a greater color gamut than supported by Blu-ray video (which only uses 8-bit) by using the Rec 2020 color space.
    A 35mm print has more color depth and higher range, than a blu-ray can deliver, and you don't get those nasty color banding, compared to blu-ray (which is milder than on a DVD, but still there).
    So by using HDR, you get more depth to the colors, better range between the whites and black, which results in less black crush in the shadows, and more details in the brightest areas, compared to SDR blu-ray etc. The HDR looks just as great in Blade Runner (1982), as in a brand new movie. Hell, it looks even more impressive than in the sequel.

    How about you actually watch an old movie in HDR/Dolby Vision, and compare to the SDR version, before you hate on it :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
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  14. maybrick

    maybrick Well-Known Member

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    I wasn’t comparing HDR to blu ray. I was comparing 4K with HDR with 4K without HDR. Older films weren’t shot with HDR cameras therefore they don’t need it, especially one shot on 16 mm film.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  15. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    Sure, it wasn't shot in HDR, but it still looks better in HDR/Dolby Vision, showing more details in the darkness, better colors and better brights, than with the HDR/Dolby Vision turned off, and compared to the Blu-Ray. So HDR still is an improvement.

    Don't like HDR in older movies, then just turn it off, or stick with the old blu-ray :)
     
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  16. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I have to admit, I think the sole reason to get Evil Dead in 4K is because of the HDR grading. Yes, 4K is beyond what can be achieved (resolution-wise) with 16mm film, it kinda lies in between 2K and 4K. The difference is so minimal going from 1080p to 2160p given the source, but it's the shadow detail and the black levels that are much improved in 4K with HDR.

    And yes, I get that older movies were never given an HDR grade or made with HDR in mind (obviously), but you can apply HDR sparingly, so as to not overdo it. Blade Runner and Die Hard are two perfect examples of old films where the HDR grading was done extremely well. Blu-ray was never able to accurately capture the full range of colour available on film, so HDR I do believe brings us closer to that. It improves black levels, improves colour (not just vibrancy, but the range of colour available) and really improves film grain. If you're like me, film grain is glorious in 4K. The higher resolution and HDR grading really brings out the detail you get with properly-rendered film grain.

    That being said, I would NEVER force HDR on SDR blu-rays, they look absolutely terrible, because it just gives movies a blanket coat of HDR, whereas actual HDR discs are carefully graded shot-by-shot. When you turn on Dolby Vision, it forces HDR on titles that aren't 4K, so you have to manually (at least on my Sony) shut it off when playing SDR discs (aka 95% of my current film library) as DV forces HDR on everything.

    So I wouldn't go shitting all over HDR as being "revisionist" because there's a pretty fine line between changing the look of a movie from the way we're used to seeing it on home video all these years and properly restoring a movie to more accurately represent what it's truly meant to look like. Hell, almost everything is revisionist these days. I think that with a proper HDR grading, a lot of these old films finally look closer to the way they're supposed to.

    Dolby Vision is the fucking shit though, I just got a DV-capable player this weekend and wow. The Fog, They Live and Superman: The Movie all look incredible in 4K Dolby Vision.

    ~Matt
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
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  17. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and 2001: A Space Odyssey in 4K HDR with Dolby Vision is NIGHT AND DAY compared to the previous blu-ray release. Like I actually think the previous blu-ray looks like complete and utter shit compared to the 4K. Perfect example of HDR done right. They could've easily fucked it up.

    If you're gonna go 4K without HDR there's no point in upgrading.

    ~Matt
     
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  18. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, it’s one of the most impressive discs out there at the moment (also avalible on itunes), and it really blows the Blu-Ray out of the water.
    Thanks to being shot on 65mm, there is so much details in the models and sets, I’ve never seen before. And the effects holds up in 4K, looking even more impressive.

    Seeing that stargate sequence in Dolby Vision, is fucking glorious!
     
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  19. russweiss

    russweiss Well-Known Member

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    Watched Evil Dead in 4K this evening and was quite impressed. I honestly can't imagine anyone buying this and not being satisfied with the results (of course assuming they know this was shot on 16mm). I last saw this on blu-ray in 2010 so I can't recall what I thought of that quality wise but I have no complaints with this upgrade. Looking forward to the 4k release of part 2.
     
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