The Lawnmower Man (or: F*** YOU, Brett Leonard)

Discussion in 'Reader Reviews' started by DVD-fanatic-9, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    So you haven't even seen the director's cut? :eek2: I kind of guessed that. As I said before it's like a completely different movie in many ways.

    If you hated the film, fine. Go masturbate then. Others like the film, so deal with it and wipe.
     
  2. Dobby

    Dobby Well-Known Member

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    Sense when does hate and masterbating ever mix? That would be like giving a dead hooker a tip.
     
  3. msw7

    msw7 Re-animated member

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    You mean I've been wasting money?!
     
  4. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    I haven't seen them make any arguments in its' defense. Like I said: how can the Director's Cut fix problems in areas like Casting? As well as the other arguments I raised? I had a look through the link I was given and you will note I made reference to at least one in my last reply. I'll give you a minute: explain to me how Caroline(?)'s re-entrance into the movie fixes her earlier scenes?

    And the arguments I made about Brosnan's program are extremely valid. The only reason that Back Door exists is so Evil Jeff Fahey can escape and they can have the cliffhanger ending. Again, I will give you room. Explain: how does any amount of additional scenes explain that problem away?? Again, I used your link as reference here. The final scene is still the same in the director's cut.

    And, this is getting fun for me, again explain: how could any additional scenes add depth to the boy's domestic abuse storyline? It's another absurd, clumsy cliche. Which leads me to carefully examine how they shot it. Though I didn't have to- it wasn't convincing. The father just pushes the boy's face in both shots. And I'm not saying it should look more violent, I'll give you any music video dealing with domestic abuse as a superior handling of the idea and they typically don't show it onscreen or, like a commercial, only show it in shadow.

    Taking a flip through the index (with pictures) of the deleted scenes, I noticed extra characters and an extension of the monkey's role in the film. Again: these are the last things this movie needs. They can't even handle the characters they held in 107 minutes. I'm guessing most of the additional scenes went into further detail on Brosnan's initial intentions and passion on the project's outcome. Which, in a longer version, would make it all the more screwed up that the corporation is run by (and if this is not changed in the director's cut, how can you pretend you have a leg to stand on telling me it's a good film?) the ridiculous actors they chose for him to have to stand off against during the Washington scenes 75-80 minutes in. Are we supposed to laugh at these guys or take them seriously? Wouldn't it be like having a 2 hour movie where a family struggle to keep their farm in ultra-dramatic fashion, then they go to the bank to beg them for a loan and it's run by Oscar the Grouch and Squidward Tentacles (aka- hilariously out-of-place and unconvincing caricatures)?

    But, again, if I'm wrong: please... enlighten me. Especially on the part where additional scenes trying to add depth to Brosnan's scientist don't make him hit a harder brick wall when the Firestarter half of the movie kicks in.

    Unless of course all you cared about was bitching that I am being very hard or narrow in my opinion. In which case, I started this thread. Why don't you get lost if you don't like hearing what I have to say? I think I have a right to challenge your magical "Director's Cut" argument. (Meanwhile, you haven't given me an argument for why I should watch it. How it actually does change the issues I've raised with the finished film. Not even as a means to show me up / shove my face in my ignorance.) I have the right to ask for you to elaborate on your points, and you have the option to not reply or not come back.

    And that goes for everyone else who has a problem with my review. Challenge my arguments, don't just bitch because you don't like anyone criticizing the movie.


    What I meant is that I'm only using the word to describe a fictional character. I would never and have never used the word to describe an actual person. Plus, the movie had no respect for the way they portrayed the character and Fahey's performance was practically insulting.

    I probably should have said that in my foreword. An oversight. It happens.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  5. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    Blah, Blah, Blah, yada...yada, yeah it's your thread and you'll cry if you want to, so go right ahead. :glasses:
     
  6. Dobby

    Dobby Well-Known Member

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    They do make some really valid points though a bit convoluted. The only thing that irks me about the movie was the retard with the lawnmower getting laid. Then again by today's low standards allot of women screw anything. I think this film makes more sense in present day versus back then.
     
  7. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    He does make some valid points, but I think he should really watch the director's cut before f***ing the Director. :p
     
  8. Zombie Dude

    Zombie Dude Well-Known Member

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    :lol:
     
  9. Mitbox

    Mitbox Member

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    I remember seeing this in VHS when it came out, I was a kid then, but don't remember anything about the plot except the scenes in CGI and the blonde dude.
    It was a horror film?
    I remember seeing it mainly because of the special FX, but didn't appreciate it much, it was an "adult" people movie for me. Don't feel like watching it now either...should I?
     
  10. Zombie Dude

    Zombie Dude Well-Known Member

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    Yea, what's the deal with this film being put in the horror section (well, at least in stores here in Australia)? Does it even have horror elements?
     
  11. msw7

    msw7 Re-animated member

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    Wow. Your excuses are getting weaker. Try the same rationalizations to use the word 'nigger' to describe a black character in a movie and see how it flies.

    1. I just wanted to save time
    2. I wouldn't say that to an actual person
    3. The movie sucked, so I say what I want

    I know nigger is more emotionally charged than retard, but offering lame excuses for using any charged word is pretty poor. If you want to offend people, or you just don't care, that one thing (I don't care), but if you care enough to warn your readers that you might offend them, and your only reason is to 'save time' in a review that runs on for quite a lot of words, you really don't portray yourself as someone who knows what it feels like to be treated as less than human (as you take plenty of time to say in your review).

    So I guess the question is, why is it important to you that you use that word, and so important that you make up excuses for using it, rather than just changing it (or using different words in the first place)?

    (I'm not actually offended by the word, just baffled by your rationalizations)
     
  12. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    When an actor portrays a black person in a film, they don't have to convince the audience that their skin is dark. Not since the days of blackface. You chose a bad example. A very bad example. A black actor may offend everyone by playing characteristics a large portion of the audience find stereotypical, but the actor is still black. Any other areas of concern or expectations typically are drawn up completely by other black moviegoers.

    As for the rest of your reply, I'm not a hypocrite. I explained why and I don't think you listened. You cannot claim that every usage of the word is the same when not every person uses it in the same context. Again, this is shockingly different from the N word. That word is not frequently used in adjective form to describe objects or ideas in social settings. The only time in recent history that word has been commonplace is among black people and only used to describe people.

    Now, I think I'm done. You didn't know what you were fishing for at the start and I'm not even sure you've been completely honest that my explanations baffled you at any point.
     
  13. Workshed

    Workshed a.k.a. Villyan Shit

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    Slippery slope. When "lame" is used to negatively describe something, it can be offensive to those who are physically impaired. I learned this the embarrassing way when I used it in such a manner around a stroke victim. :(

    So, either DVDf9 gets a pass for "retard" and so do you for "lame" or you're both insensitive. Ha. :joshua: Just pointing out how policing one another's PC language can get a bit outta hand.
     
  14. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    I'm technically using the word in 2 ways. 1 to symbolize how little respect the movie shows the character (Leonard and Fahey are practically mocking people who are handicapped or differently abled). And 2 because, yes, it flows better. That's what I mean by shorthanding it. And that saves me time as I write it. If I don't use "retard," I have to question what alternate term will sound better in each usage. If I have to stop to think about that and how different people will react to its' specific usage and then re-read the sentence while thinking about how it's read aloud (that's how I often write my reviews= thinking about how it's read aloud, not re-reading/re-writing each specific sentence for a minute at a time as well as proof-reading before hitting Submit), my train of thought does shake and like stuff on the roof of a car, I do lose things as well as momentum.
     
  15. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

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    And just like that you reassured 99% on horrordigital.
     
  16. Fistfuck

    Fistfuck Slowest to 2000 posts

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  17. msw7

    msw7 Re-animated member

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    Fair point. I'm not asking for a pass, and if that word offended someone I'd be happy to change it or apologize. And I'm really not trying to police anyone's language - I don't care what words someone wants to use, but it boggled my mind that someone would use a word they acknowledged could be offensive, but then offered what struck me as weird excuses for it.
     
  18. msw7

    msw7 Re-animated member

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    That may have been a bad example, or I may not have made my point clearly, sure. I chose that example as an obvious one where the word alone would likely cause offense (and of course it's a more extreme case, as I mentioned). Pick any offensive word you'd rather use instead, if it helps. My point was only that your excuses did not seem to reflect any necessity to use the potentially offending word, but were mere arguments of convenience (at best). It struck me as weird (hypocritical may be too strong for what I intended, but it's not far off, I suppose) that you would offer an argument of convenience for offending someone while at the same time saying that you had been treated badly by other people.

    I'm not fishing for anything (and if you want to ignore it, fine), but your explanations certainly have given me several WTF moments. If that's not baffled then I don't know what is.
     
  19. msw7

    msw7 Re-animated member

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    I dunno dude, I mean, do whatever you want, of course - I'm not trying to tell you what to do or what not to do, just pointing out that you seem conflicted about it. And if you think Leonard and Fahey are mocking people who are handicapped, then adding insult to injury in your review may not be the best vehicle by which to point that out.

    Just saying, and I'll let it go at this point - the horse is long dead.
     
  20. Anaestheus

    Anaestheus Well-Known Member

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    DF9 - I assume that you were being genuine when you said that you had no intention of offending people, but you have to admit that you still managed to offend. And really, when it comes to speaking or wording, then intentions very rarely matter. There are plenty of other less-charged words that could have been chosen as substitutes for "retard" that wouldn't have taken much more time type. Hell, you could have just referred to the character by his name, Jobe, and saved yourself even more keystrokes. You knew it was a charged word going in and you opted to use it and that's fine. But regardless of how you "intend" to use the word, it has social connotations that are bigger than any of those intentions.

    I could easily say that when I use the word "nigger" I mean anyone who stems from Nigerian heritage or that I want to type "Nip" because it has fewer letters than "Japanese" and that it's really more respectful since it derives from "Nippon" which is the countries real name. But, that will not remove any of the stigma from those words.

    I don't mean to say that you shouldn't have used "retard" as I don't really care about it. But, that is the cost of free speech. You are free to use words that have cultural baggage and people at large are free to interpret them as they see fit. If you don't want to be accused of insensitivity, then don't be insensitive.

    That said, I will say that I wholly agree that Lawnmower Man sucked and I am pretty sure that I have seen the director's cut as well, and I don't remember it being a really significant improvement. Fahey's tongue-waggling is still present.
     

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