Unpopular opinions!

Discussion in 'General' started by _pi_, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. Agent Z

    Agent Z "Get to the river...

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    Which would take the horror tag off of most slashers as well, including the early Friday the 13th films and, yes, even Halloween.*


    I like the discussion, but in the end the only definition that will matter is the one that each individual holds as their own.

    However, if you want to break it down to the simplest terms:

    hor-ror

    –noun
    1. an overwhelming and painful feeling caused by something frightfully shocking, terrifying, or revolting; a shuddering fear: to shrink back from a mutilated corpse in horror.
    2. anything that causes such a feeling
    <--------

    Jaws frightfully shocked, revolted, terrified, and gave me an overwhelming and painful feeling that has since kept my adult swimming locales restricted to birdbaths. :nervous:






    *
    Myers getting up after the gunshots and fall, while improbable, is not impossible.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  2. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    I don't think Halloween is any more supernatural then Jaws. Even if Michael Myers represented evil. Jaws isn't a "when animals attack" it doesn't represent a real Shark. It is much larger and much more powerful then any Great White that has ever been found. Isn't jaws essentially Michael Myers in the Ocean. A Evil killing machine staking his victims?
     
  3. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    it's hard to argue with this ..., GOOD JOB Mission Codes :)
     
  4. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Actually, that's easy to disagree with. That's a dictionary definition of the word - we're talking about a genre of movies. They're not the same at all, surprised you were so easily suckered into that one. :D

    Of course horror films have the elements of that definition of the word "horror", but it doesn't at all go all the way to describing the genre as a whole.

    Friday the 13th and Halloween both have supernatural elements. To me it is clear in Halloween that the Myers that returns is only partially human, the climax simply confirms this. Later films definately push the point home. Same with Friday - a few films in and he's a full blown zombie for goodness sakes. The first film? Not a horror film by this definition. Halloween though, I think is. Saying the shark in Jaws is unusually large or strong is pushing it a bit, imo. :D

    Isn't that the same as saying "I have my own definition, and I'm never going to change it, so unless the definition agreed is the one I think is right, it's wrong?"

    Of course we all have our convictions, and I'm with you in suggesting that we'd never ever - on this board (or any other likely) - be able to come up with a definition we could all agree on. Nothing is going to convince speanroc that Jaws isn't a horror film - and honestly he's going to have a hard time convincing me it is.

    The definition I posted - from Gifford - would exclude many films we all hold dear to our hearts, and we're just not going to be able to let go of them. I can appreciate that. The main issue I was pointing out though was that, with no definition at all, it's an anything goes situation. Hence, any poll on the board is to be treated as good fun only, and not to be taken seriously at all. Too many different agendas come into play.

    Also, trying to come up with a definition makes your head hurt, doesn't it? :lol:
     
  5. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    As a bit of fun I went through Speanroc's top ten, just to see how upset he would be by Gifford's definition. :D

    1-EVIL DEAD (Horror)
    2-FRIDAY THE 13TH (the first film? Not Horror unless you believe that final scene actually happened).
    3-DEATH DREAM (Haven't seen this one)
    4-HELL NIGHT (Haven't seen this one)
    5-I DRINK YOUR BLOOD (Not Horror)
    6-SLEEPAWAY CAMP (Not Horror)
    7-ISLAND OF DEATH (Not Horror)
    8-LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT (Not Horror)
    9-BAY OF BLOOD (haven't seen this one)
    10-HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME (Not horror)

    OMG! :D

    My list:

    The Haunting (Horror)
    Night of the Demon (Tourneur) (Horror)
    Halloween (Horror, though we're debating it)
    Dracula Has Risen from the Grave (Horror)
    Fiend Without a Face (Horror.... but where's the line with sci-fi?)
    Frankenstein (Whale) (Horror)
    The Thing from Another World (Horror)
    Mystery of the Wax Museum (Horror?)
    Nosferatu (Horror)
    Dark Water (original) (Horror)

    Interesting. I didn't have the definition in mind when I made my list, but I think I'm naturally more tuned to its central idea.
     
  6. Agent Z

    Agent Z "Get to the river...

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    As with Halloween, there is nothing that occurs in The Haunting that definitely falls under "impossible". In fact, under a certain analysis, there is not a stitch of supernatural element present in the story.
     
  7. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    dwatts , i tried to meet u halfway on this,..but u chose to focus on my agreement w/ his post resulting in u disecting my choices, which is fine...:lol: , my ability to get under people's skin on this forum is a testiment to my many talents...;) ..


    and no i didn't get suckered in, Mission Codes points r valid...now u saying that halloween has supernatural elements is YOU trying to save face in your argument.........;)





    , also explain to me how friday the 13th part 1 has supernatural elements....
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  8. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    i guess u missed this ....;)

    :D
     
  9. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Well, I totally disagree. It is clear to me that this is a supernatural story. It plays with events perhaps being "real" - but that's the essence of a ghost story. Besides, I've never seen a door bend that way, clearly supernatural I'd say.

    Actually you've got it totally wrong. I merely went through your list as a bit of fun. You sound like you're taking it a bit too seriously here to be honest.

    And this kinda confirms it - get a grip man! :lol:

    How is stating an opinion anything to do with "saving face"? I'm simply stating an opinion. Having seen the Halloween films I don't see how there can be any doubt that Myers is supernatural. He's certainly not your normal every day man. I always felt, in the first film, that this element was there too. Hence my opinion. There's no guilt in thinking one way or the other, nor honor in being "right" - we're just chatting here. Stop getting all serious. :lol:

    The dictionary definition of a single word doesn't suffice as a definition for a genre of films called "Horror", imo. A dictionary does not provide context - that's why we have such a wonderful language. The word is too simplistic - the horror movie genre means more than that - again, imo. :)

    Well, I've written the following in this thread: "Same with Friday - a few films in and he's a full blown zombie for goodness sakes. The first film? Not a horror film by this definition." And also: "2-FRIDAY THE 13TH (the first film? Not Horror unless you believe that final scene actually happened)."

    Which parts are you having problems with?

    How comes there can't be a simple discussion on here without someone either a) assuming attacks are taking place, or b) people getting upset? Personally I don't care if you accept a definition or not, it's just a topic of discussion is all. I've already conceeded we'd never be able to agree on it - so it's just a fun discussion is all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  10. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    who's taking things serious...:lol:

    keep em comin dwatts ur a laugh riot...:lol:
     
  11. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    :lol: I can see this discussion is going nowhere, which is okay, it was only a bit of fun. My commenting on your post is simply a reflection of how you came across - which was defensively. But if it makes you feel better to imagine it isn't so and make out I'm taking things too seriously despite what I've written, so be it. I take it you've conceeded the points made and have nothing more to contribute than your above post which has reduced your contribution to the level of snide remarks. Fair enough, I hope you don't think I'm at all bothered. :lol:

    I do think the point is proven though - coming up with a definition is extremely difficult, and we're probably going to lose some heartfelt titles along the way. If we stick with Mission's point made earlier then things are "resolved" more quickly, but only because there's no real resolution at all. It's certainly far easier to dodge the definition question altogether and simply have fun with the polls rather than take them seriously. :)
     
  12. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    every one of my comments were met with a smile icon of some kind..;)

    only in your mind ..:) = (u see another one of those smiley icons)




    :lol: :lol: :lol: you're the undisputed KING of SNIDE REMARKS...:lol:

    i agree and your best contribution to the thread ..:) = oops there's that smiley icon again...

    exactly,..which was my point when i had agreed with him in the first place,..before u went on one of your "dwatts" tirades...:) =



    oh, and i apologise in advance if that was too serious and snide for your taste buds...:lol: :)
     
  13. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Nice try - but I'm not really interested in girlish bickering. :lol:

    And nice editing - using "If we stick with Mission's point made earlier then things are "resolved" more quickly" without "but only because there's no real resolution at all" changes the meaning. :lol:

    And no, I won't be responding to your silliness in the thread again - so go on, have the last word. :D
     
  14. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    i guess u just couldn't resist commenting though, huh dwatts :lol:

    u see ur point would've been better made had u just ignored my last comment,..but life is about learning ..;)
     
  15. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    When you're bored, Google can be your friend. Here's an interesting article about horror fiction that sets out to define what constitutes it. It uses the dictionary definition as a starting point, but then goes on to expand upon it in an interesting way. Decent read I reckon:

    What is horror fiction

    By the end it's really broad though, which is troubling. But hey, it's a start.

    And there's another one that goes in a slightly different direction that I think is worth a read:

    A Humean Definition of Horror
     
  16. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    interesting read...., thanks for the links...:)
     
  17. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    You could gag on these. :D In fact, there are so many definitions of the horror film, it's a wonder we need more than one. :lol:

    Anyways:

    This one: Modern Horror in Science-Fiction: A Brief Look at Alien and The Thing
    is excellent:

    It goes on, and is a good read.

    Notes on the Terror Film is a really good little article too.

    The rest is very interesting, imo.

    Whoa - like this one, though I'm not familiar with MATTHEW BARNEY:
    MONSTROUS BEAUTY AND MUTANT AESTHETICS:
    RETHINKING MATTHEW BARNEY'S RELATIONSHIP TO THE HORROR GENRE


    And this one isn't really on topic, but I thought it was interesting anyway: CRITICAL SURVEY: WRITINGS ON HITCHCOCK

     
  18. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    i said interesting read, didn't say i agreed with it...;) , and i'm glad i was the fuel that motivated you to spend the time to seek all this out...:lol:



    oh and YOUR WELCOME...:D
     
  19. Mok

    Mok Family is Forever

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    Hey I just watched that the other day. I was fairly impressed. That guy who played Karswell (Niall MacGinnis) was pretty good. Interesting story and like you said good b/w photography.
     
  20. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Do you have the R1 disc? Which version did you watch? I'd be interested to see what you think - but the two edits of this one really fascinate me. They're different, but they work equally well for me. Which just goes to show the power of editing.....
     

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