War coming to an end finally?

Discussion in 'High Definition' started by KR~!, Nov 29, 2007.

  1. KR~!

    KR~! The Apocalyptic Kid

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    Europe and Japan seems to be a lock. Can the US be next?

    read this:

    The Blu-ray Disc Association has announced that high definition (HD) movie DVDs in the Blu-ray format have outsold the rival HD DVD standard in Europe this year, selling more than one million and constituting 73% of all high definition movie discs, Reuters has reported.

    The association also announced that 20 million PS3 games based on Blu-ray technology have been shipped to Europe. Additionally, the total number of Blu-ray gaming discs produced for sale in Europe exceeded 21 million units.

    Earlier this month, the association announced that Blu-ray owned 97% of the high definition recorder market in Japan while HD DVD recorders had only 3% market share. According to Home Media Research, Blu-ray disc DVD titles had outsold rival HD-DVD titles by almost two-to-one in the first nine months of 2007 in the US.

    The high definition DVD market comprises of two technologies Blu-ray, developed by Toshiba and Sony's HD DVD. To support both the technologies, Samsung plans to release a dual-format HD player, BD-UP5000 by end of 2007. Samsung will become the second company to launch a dual-format player after LG Electronics, which launched the player in January 2007.

    Source: ComputerWire daily updates

    http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=5F23353B-C93E-4A8E-8F2D-33F581E18AFE
     
  2. Ash J. Williams

    Ash J. Williams New Member

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    First off, this information leaves out why the Blu-Ray players have 97% of the market in Japan: The PS3 has it built in, and the PS3 sells in Japan. The HD-DVD player is available only as an add-on to the XBox 360, and the 360 (and the original Xbox) has sold miserably in Japan since day one, due to lack of titles the Japanese market craves, and poor advertisement to the consumers there. Don't quote me on this, but I believe the Game Boy Advance continues to largely outsell the 360, despite the DS having a fully-functional Game Boy Advance in it. This is because Microsoft doesn't know how to sell their system in that market, and if the system itself doesn't sell, then an add-on that's another half of the price surely isn't going to.

    I'm unclear of the market situation in Europe, but I hear the PS3 is starting to sell much better over there, especially in the recent weeks. Of course the Blu-Ray Disc Association would announce this information now, a week after Black Friday, because the sales are at a recent high. And notice that they don't even mention the North American market figures.

    This press release leaves out crucial information, something Sony has been known for for a while now. The format war isn't over, at least not in region 1. Not by a long shot.
     
  3. maybrick

    maybrick Well-Known Member

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    It may be true, or it may not. You can't really expect an unbiased press release about the current state of the format war from a group called "The Blu-Ray Disc Association".
     
  4. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    Toshiba is a Japanese company. I know for a fact you can get the HD-XA2 and HD-XF2 in Japan: http://www.i4u.com/article7125.html

    Blu-ray did have Japan from the start, even before the PS3 it was a lock. Japan has had writable Blu-ray discs for a few years before HD-DVD was even released. There's no doubt HD-DVD's has experienced much shame in Japan.

    I agree though that Europe is in the same cat's game that the US is in. But at the same time, how long can something sell in 30% of the market but ask for 50% of the shelf space? I just doesn't seem viable to me.
     
  5. Ash J. Williams

    Ash J. Williams New Member

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    Erm, sorry - badly worded. I meant that, with a game system, it's only available as an add-on to the 360, not built in. I know you can get standalone players, but they're still really expensive, and most people consider it worth it to get a system with it. The problem is, that when Japanese consumers buy a system, they're buying it for the games first - they would probably pay a comparable price for the PS3 without a Blu-Ray player, with the software it has that so much appeals to the Japanese market.
     
  6. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    Well, everytime I read about successful products they're driven from US sales, not Japanese sales. I think in the end it'll be what wins in the US that will help drive Europe.

    Europe is so far behind all this it isn't funny. For instance, in the UK I believe there to be 7 or so hi-def TV channels - five of which are sport. The major sattelite provider are Sky, and they have by far the largest number of subscribers - Sky say the uptake for hi-def is around 3%. A whopping big 3%...... there simply arn't the channels..... Does this sound like a thriving hi-def market right now?

    Then there is the falasy that Playstation 3 sales equate to hi-def movie sales. Say what you want, people mostly buy Playstation 3's for gaming, not for movie watching. It's a method to play with numbers though. No-one talks about "total DVD sales" and quotes sales numbers for movie use and computer use all in one big ball. Games aren't movies.

    On the other hand, MS seem to have hesitated. There's a new model of the Xbox 360 out (forget the name), but MS sure as hell weren't ready to ship a HD-DVD drive with it, it's still an add on. Hedging bets? Worried that they might end up with a bunch of machines out there with an obsolete drive they now have to support? Or do we believe they just wanted to keep the price down?

    And oh - the cheapest HD-DVD player I've been able to find over here - the CHEAPEST - is $320. Blue Ray is more like $800. Nice price point people.

    Was I the only one that looked at that "Europe this year, selling more than one million" and thought - a million, ONLY a million? Hardly a huge take up, is it? If they included DVD sales against that figure it would make for some very scary reading.

    I don't know, more stretching the truth - playing with numbers (21 million Blu-Ray game discs shipped! What else they going to ship the games they hope to sell on, floppy disc?) and spin.

    Prices must drop..... someone must win, but no-one will truly know until the weeks following Christmas. If one of them sell huge numbers over the festive period, it will help make a more compelling argument. However, to me it looks lie this thing is going to roll and roll until this time next year. I predict we won't really be talking about an obvious winner until after Christmas 08.
     
  7. Kolpitz

    Kolpitz Purely and Simply Evil

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    You also have to ask yourself how accurate an article is that attributes Blu-Ray to Toshiba and HD-DVD to Sony, when it's actually the other way around. Nitpicking? Maybe but that's still a pretty big, glaring "typo." I'm format neutral at the moment, owning neither a PS3 or a 360 (or even an HD TV for that matter) but I'm leaning toward the side of Blu-Ray.
     
  8. JW77

    JW77 Support Halliburton

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    The problem is, since there are so many more Blu-Ray players out there (including the PS3) than there are HD-DVD players that when you only see BRD outselling HD-DVD by a 2:1 margin, it looks like HD-DVD owners are the ones who actually buy HD movies. If you have ten BR players (most of which are PS3s) for every one HD-DVD player, then it doesn't look very good for the prospect of the PS3 tipping the format war in any meaningful way.

    And even, most of the BR movies that sell will probably be things like 300 or POTC that would appeal to gamers. Transformers would've been FUCKING huge on BR.

    There's really no point in putting a HD-DVD drive in the new version of the 360. They can't start making games on HD-DVD until the next gen system comes out since they won't be playable on current systems. The only reason to do it would be so it could play HD-DVD movies, and they probably don't want to kick the cost up that much to keep an edge over the PS3.
     
  9. zombi3

    zombi3 Pure Evil

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    This is my favorite part of the article:

    :rolleyes:

    The BDA has been spreading lies and misinformation since the beginning of this thing. The war has come to an end about six times in the past year, according to them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2007
  10. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    ^ Yeah, that's gold and they haven't even fixed it on the article as of this time.

    I wouldn't say this article in and of itself are lies and information, Blu-ray really is outselling HD-DVD discs. It doesn't matter how you cut it, those are the honest numbers. In fact over Black Friday and Thanksgiving weekend Blu-ray gained almost 73% share of the market over HD. If HD-DVD owners are buying more than Blu-ray'ers, they have a funny way of showing it.

    Lies and disinformation comes into play when a company says they're going to dump a format because it doesn't have interactivity when that feature was just to be activated and the company itself has never utilized interactivity anyways. :D

    I think both formats are guilty as hell, HD-DVD would claim the win 6 times over if they could. They've already done as much with all their record breaking player sales announcements.
     
  11. zombi3

    zombi3 Pure Evil

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    I didn't hear the HD DVD Group claim victory when Paramount dumped Blu-Ray or when Toshiba sold 90,000 players in one weekend. Sure there may have been some gloating, but never once did I hear them say the war was over.

    The Blu side predicted that the release of the PS3 would bring a swift end to the format war. That didn't happen. I also read that someone from the BD Group (sorry I don't remember who) went on record claiming that the war would end in Blu's favor by September 2007. This statement was obviously made before the Paramount/Dreamworks announcement. The fact is that the "war" is not over - and probably won't be for a while - and no one knows how it will end.

    I realize that neither side is perfect, but I would have more respect for Blu-ray if they issued a disclaimer with their players stating to consumers that they will be paying an arm and a leg for machines that may not support features on future releases due to an incomplete spec. I own HD DVD, but I may go neutral by the end of next year if this thing doesn't shift one way or the other. Before that happens, Blu-ray will need to produce cheaper players with complete specs so that they will be compatible with all BD's.
     
  12. JW77

    JW77 Support Halliburton

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    The problem with Blu-Ray is that it's pretty much tied to a gaming rig.

    UMD was hot for a while, too.

    Frankly, the whole idea of a "war" between two disc based formats is stupid anyway. They're fucking five-inch discs. Just make universal players that will play DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray and be done with it. This ain't Highlander.
     
  13. Rockmjd

    Rockmjd Guest

    BDA said that? Isn't this guy in charge of their press releases:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. KR~!

    KR~! The Apocalyptic Kid

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    Japanese Sales of PlayStation 3
    Outpace Nintendo's Wii in November
    By JAY ALABASTER
    November 30, 2007 4:48 a.m.

    TOKYO -- Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3 game console outsold Nintendo Co.'s Wii console in November in Japan for the first time, according to an industry survey.

    In the four weeks through Nov. 25, Sony sold 183,217 PS3s in Japan, while Nintendo sold 159,193 Wii consoles, according to market researcher Enterbrain.

    The data show that the PS3 has outsold Nintendo's offering for the last three weeks, indicating that recent moves by Sony may be paying off. The company introduced a new, cheaper entry model that it began selling in Japan on Nov. 11 and cut prices of existing models in October.

    Read more here:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119641444255609381.html
     
  15. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    ^That's surprising, looks like PS3 fever finally caught in Japan. But since the Japanese don't consider the Xbox360 even an option I guess it's really the only choice to go next gen. Kinda like how Americans don't seem the consider the PS3 a choice. ;) I don't think PS3 will do was well here but I'm sure it'll do very well.

    In the end I think both formats released over a year and a half too early. After all HD-DVD just approved specs for 51 GB disc, which probably won't be backwards compatible (obviously time will tell).

    If Toshiba had taken their time they probably would have something with hardware specs identical to Blu-ray. With that time Blu-ray would have software specs identical to HD-DVD. I can't help but blame both equally, they're both so damn stupid.
     
  16. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    I don't know, I think this is the most sensible thing written in any and all hi-def threads I've ever read.
     
  17. KR~!

    KR~! The Apocalyptic Kid

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  18. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    There ya go. Wonder what price tag they're putting on it, and when we can get one in R2. Also, I hope it can be made region free for DVD use.
     
  19. othervoice1

    othervoice1 Well-Known Member

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  20. dwatts

    dwatts New Member

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    It's all about the Wii in the gaming market really, isn't it? We muddy things by combining movies interests in it. Wii has been terrific.
     

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