What annoys you?

Discussion in 'General' started by C.R, Jan 4, 2001.

  1. n1ghtmare

    n1ghtmare New Member

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    Mysogonistic horror is one of my favorite sub-genres. It's just so damn brutal. But something that does upset me is real animal cruelty. Who cares about humans? Not me.
     
  2. fishhead

    fishhead Guest

    Hmmm...I was originally going to say "DVDs going out of print really annoy me", but this thread seems to have gone way beyond that level of discourse [​IMG]

    Misogyny truly annoys me, but it's not an easy thing to define. In my view, there is a certain line between seeing women getting killed and seeing women getting killed in a way that seems to get the filmmaker excited. The latter is what I find disturbing and horrific.



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  3. ctyner

    ctyner Member

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    Some of my favorite quotes sort of related to this:

    Dario Argento -- "I like women, especially beautiful ones. If they have a good face and figure, I would much prefer to watch them being murdered than an ugly girl or man. I certainly don't have to justify myself to anyone about this. I don't care what anyone thinks or reads into it."

    Brian De Palma -- "If you have a haunted house and you have a woman walking around with a candelabrum, you fear more for her than you would for a husky man."

    Lloyd Kaufman -- "The erotic contents of a Troma movie are important to sales. I cannot continue making movies without that insurance."

    I actually wrote a paper that's somewhat related to this discussion. It's really bad, but if you're bored... http://people.clemson.edu/~ctyner/357.doc



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  4. SantaSangre

    SantaSangre Guest

    Being a woman, I am very disturbed by the violence directed at women in horror movies. I still love them, but that's just because I can't be rational when it comes to movies. I really love Cannibal Holocaust, too, but the animal cruelty disgusts me. However, I actually think the objectification of women you see in any of the videos played on MTV is far more destructive to society's view of women. The other day I watched a few videos and thought to myself, no wonder I hated myself as a teenager. Not even the actresses really look like that and these people come right out and tell you that you must to be worthy of love, happiness, etc. Just listen to that godawful Liquid Dream (think that's what it's called) song and you'll see what I'm talking about. Whoa! Did that turn into a rant or what? Trust me, though, I don't say these things out of jealousy...just to make the point that society has targeted the wrong format (horror movies) to stop the degradation of women.
    Carey
     
  5. hojimoji

    hojimoji Member

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    Ctyner- That wasn't a bad paper at all. How did the professor take it?

    And along similar lines is an article I found several months ago: http://nasty.cx/essays/sf-07172000.html

    It should also be noted that pretty much everyone except the hero/herione is a 2-dimensional character. Yes, women do get picked on, but all we have to do is examine the Evil Dead trilogy to see that Ash gets the crap kicked out of him, and his troubles never let up.

    The true inequity in horror films is more likely in who does the killing, not who is killed.

    I also have to second fishead's "DVD's going out of print annoys me".

    G.
     
  6. C.R

    C.R Guest

    Yeah, but Argento never attacks what makes a woman a woman. Thus, I never feel his stuff qualifies as 'misogyny'... let me explain that. in the New york Ripper women have their naked bodies hacked up, their breasts and so on are carved into in great detail, and usually filmed in a manner which makes us the perpetrator. In Argento's films women are offed in the same manner as men and possibly the most gruesome scene in any Argento film is the bloke being stabbed repeatedly in Opera. In Argento's film often a female is the psycho... lending a whole new level to this. What's more, Tenebrae kinda addresses many of these criticisms and, in my opinion, in an intelligent and compulsive manner. The New York Ripper, Bloodsucking Freaks or even Maniac just exist, I think, to show females being brutally slashed up. Ditto for Cannibal Holocaust and House on the Edge of the Park... in both of these films I felt quite offended by the 'morality' of the person behind the camera and the, let's face it, pointless but gloating sexual torture on offer. On the contrary, I think Last house has a real brillance to it and has something to say. I didn't like I Spit on your Grave but I'd defend the basic point of view in that as well. Mother's Day is a difficult one so I'm holding out there (but I did enjoy some of it).
    I have films I wouldn't ever dream of showing my girlfriend, but Tenebrae isn't one of them and she really liked it. I guess that counts for soemthing?

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  7. hojimoji

    hojimoji Member

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    I find this concept funny. From your Salo posts C.R. it seems you have a serious problem differentiating between the art and the artist. I think Frank Zappa said it best: "I wrote a song about dental floss and nobody's teeth got cleaner." If anything the morality of the audience should be question for enjoying such movies, but I don't believe in judging things like that.

    And how then do we judge such things as Faces of Death? If the director only captures what would happen normally (i.e. a car crash he didn't make happen), no matter how sickening, does that mean he is immoral?

    The implication of morals also intimates a responsibility I am not willing to assign to any artist.


    G.
     
  8. ctyner

    ctyner Member

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    hojimoji: I'd have to dig it out to check to see exactly, but I got either an A or an A+. To an extent, I wrote the paper knowing the sorts of things that he likes to see (he's obsessed with the concept of phallic power, so I made sure to mention that repeatedly, despite the fact that the filmmakers I mentioned more than likely didn't even consider that)...

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  9. DVD Connoisseur

    DVD Connoisseur Active Member

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    Many, many years ago (I guess it would have been around 1987), I read a British book about what was referred to over here as the "video nasty" phenomenon. Basically, the tabloids in the UK had blamed films like Suspiria, Evil Dead, Driller Killer, Tenebre, Dawn of the Dead, Cannibal Holocaust, I Spit On Your Grave, etc, etc, for society's problems. If an old lady had been mugged in London, the tabloids would link this to the widespread availability of the video nasties. In a move that was swift and an absolutely knee-jerk reaction to the building tabloid induced hysteria, many films were instantly "banned and burned." Films as innocent as Halloween 3 were cut. The shelves of every video store in the UK were decimated as titles were taken away to be checked against a central register. It was the UK's darkest hour for film fans. Anyway, the book I was reading analysed in detail a few of the offending films. The ones that stay in mind are Cannibal Holocaust and I Spit On Your Grave.
    Strong arguments were put forward by psychologists that these films actually put over a final positive message to the viewers.
    I Spit On Your Grave can be seen as a very feminist movie - the rapists are shown as learing animals, there is no titillation in the scenes - it is a harrowing experience. In the movie, the female lead is the strongest character and the audience supports her and sympathises with her.
    Cannibal Holocaust is seen by some critics as a comment on capitalist companies disregard for developing nations, the physical rape of the rainforests, etc.
    There are always two sides to any argument...
     
  10. C.R

    C.R Guest

    DVD connoisseur - the book which you are thinking of is The Video Nasties by Martin Barker. The defense of I Spit on Your Grave is written by the films actual screenwriter and is, thus, horribly biased - but it is interesting all the same. What he also says is that I Spit is technically superior to Halloween and a much better film which gives you some idea of how much he actually knows! A better arguement in the films favour can be seen by Carol Clover in her book Men Womena and Chainsaws.
    The Cannibal Holocaust defense was written by Barker himself and it was a review of the UK version which removed over six minutes of very brutal animal cruelty and violence. I don't believe Holocaust has many sub texts other than to shock the viewer. That's just my opinion though. As for filming things which would have happened anyway... that's fine - after all, the Zapruder footage of the JFK assassination should say something to the USA about its horribly lenient gun laws. However, Faces of Death uses this sort of thing to salacious means and in an attempt to gain profit from other peoples suffering. That makes me uncomfortable. You cannot differentiate the filmmaker from the film otherwise a full century of film theroy and the entire autuer theory is shat down the drains.

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  11. C.R

    C.R Guest

    one more thing - Halloween 3 was not cut by the BBFC it was cut by Thorn EMI who were hoping to curb their chance of prosecution from the DDP (who got the likes of Cannibal Holocaust in hot water) by achieving a tame 15 certificate. The full verison can be seen on the USA DVD release by Goodtimes which is also letterboxed and looks lovely.

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  12. DVD Connoisseur

    DVD Connoisseur Active Member

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    Cheers, C.R. You're 100% correct about the book - I can just about visualise it after all this time (I read it in an afternoon at the University library when I was bored with assigments, course work, etc). It was an interesting read but I was frustrated that I hadn't seen many of the films mentioned at that point in time!

    I was a little vague about the cutting of movies (it's been a long week and I was tired and emotional when I finally logged on). The distributors / studios, as you say, started hacking away at video-versions of films in order to avoid possible prosecution. It was certainly a dark time and, thankfully, things are certainly changing for the better in the UK (in my opinion).
     
  13. C.R

    C.R Guest

    Things are definately changing for the better in the UK. I just got my DVD of Torso through the post and I can't wait to see it. hope it's not crap, I spent tweny two quid on it (giallo addict that I am). Look for uncut versions of The Beyond, City of the Living Dead and The Slayer in your local WH Smith soon (sadly supplied by Vipco who can't really do any good, be it getting a good print or finding some nice extras).

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  14. DVD Connoisseur

    DVD Connoisseur Active Member

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    C.R. I must admit, I love the dark "giallo" thrillers. I haven't seen Torso yet - I've seen mixed reviews but it sounds like my "cup of tea."
    Do you buy many UK releases? I tend to stick with the US DVDs. The quality of Image (except for Twitch of the Death Nerve!) and Anchor Bay (to name just two) DVDs are positively breathtaking at times.

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