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View Full Version : When is it going to get cheaper?


landrvr
12-28-2000, 02:54 PM
here's a new topic: are there any discs out there that you have been hesitant to purchase because you can't justify paying what, in your mind, is too high a price? i've got one, and it's been a thorn in my side for a long time:

Flesh for Frankenstein
after reading jeremy's excellent review of this fine flick, i was again reminded of how needlessly expensive this DVD really is. hey, the sucker is $33.96 at dvdexpress. that's thirty three dollars and ninety six cents! we've talked about this before, but it's worth mentioning again.

sure, criterion pioneered the 'special edition' DVD format we've come to love (even before there was a label known as 'special edition'). sure, they went out on a limb to release this title - at a time when most companies wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. it still doesn't mean they are going to get my $33.96 for this film.

clearly from the review, there are various problems with this disc. the image could have been better, the sound cleaned up. extras are slim. a slide show with stereo music? ummmmm, okay.

i want to buy this movie. i really do. it's not that i can't afford it. it's just a matter of principle. it's too goddamn much money.

now, maybe if they place it in one of those nifty tins....

(sorry Django)

Dave
12-28-2000, 03:29 PM
My typical response: "You got it good - obviously you weren't around in the laserdisc days".

How would you feel paying $30-$60 for a barebones disc, and $60+ for special editions? Sometimes those laserdisc special editions sold for over $100.00. Sure, they'd often be big box sets but even a 2 disc SE could go for $80.00 (e.g. The Howling SE LD).

Yes yes, laserdisc was a niche market whereas DVD has already gone mainstream. Cheaper prices should come with the territory. And that is indeed true - that's why you see special editions like Fight Club and Seven sell for $25 - $30.

Criterion is always going to be a bit more expensive. They're a smaller studio and something like Carnival of Souls isn't going to sell nearly as well as Fight Club or Seven. I'm all for supporting Criterion's work if it helps keep them in business. And don't say something like "well, Anchor Bay is small and their prices aren't as expensive". That's true, but Anchor Bay has large retail distribution. Synapse, Elite and VCI have affordable prices, but you generally don't find as many supplements on their discs as you would Criterion.

I know it's hard to justify, but Criterion is almost always worth the extra money. Coming from laserdisc, their prices still seem cheap to me. Anyway, that's my 3 cents! http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/smile.gif

------------------
David W. Anderson - dave@horrordvds.com
Webmaster - www.horrordvds.com (http://www.horrordvds.com)

Jasondog
12-28-2000, 05:00 PM
I wish Buena Vista's titles would drop down. I still haven't bought Halloween 6 & H20 yet, but i have 6 on laserdisc

Paff
12-28-2000, 05:25 PM
Well, I agree with both landrvr AND Dave here.

(by the way, on that Flesh for Frankenstein review, the daughter is NOT played by Carla Mancini, but by Nicoletta Elmi. That mistake was on the LD, and it looks like no one corrected it for the DVD. Nicoletta Elmi's been in far too many Italian horror films to get dissed the way she has on this disc)

Anyway, like Dave said, if you REALLY want overpriced discs, try Criterion LASERS! Both Flesh for Frankenstein and Blood for Dracula (and c'mon, ya gotta have BOTH) listed at $50. I managed to find a cutout of FFF for $15, but BFD (heheh) still cost me $30 used. If you want these movies, ya gotta pay. Them's the breaks.

But I also weigh in with my wallet when it comes to buying discs. I know the Criterion Carnival of Souls is a bargain for what's on that disc, but for that money I could have 2 DVDs or 3 (or 4) laserdiscs. I'm not bitching at Criterion or calling them overpriced, but I do hesitate on some films if the price is a little higher. I'm not made of money. Of course, for some movies (Repo Man for instance) I've paid the higher-than-average price and never thought twice about it.

Finally, Flesh for Frankenstein IS worth $30. Because to know death Otto, you have to....

Mark Relford
12-28-2000, 10:27 PM
f**k death in the gall bladder! http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I treat myself to a Criterion once in a while. landrvr, you're missing out on a horror classic!

I want Heaven on DVD, but it's a little pricey.

------------------
"Have you ever had an Egyptian feast?"

"They're back from the grave and ready to party!"


[This message has been edited by Mark Relford (edited 12-28-2000).]

DVD Connoisseur
12-28-2000, 11:14 PM
A while ago, I was thinking that the H G Lewis and Mario Bava DVDs are quite highly priced compared to other, more mainstream movies. This had put me off sampling these titles for some time. I must say, however, that I must have been suffering from memory loss as it wasn't that long ago when I would be paying over twice the price for a bare bones LD. When I think of how much I paid for some box sets I could cry! The Star Wars Definitive Collection cost me the equivalent of $350! The Phantasm Signature Edition cost me $165 (aprox), A Nightmare on Elm Street cost me $125, and so on! In those days, internet shopping was a dream for most individuals so we had to buy from dealers in the UK, who pocketed a handsome profit from every transaction. DVD and the internet is a dream come true. Sometimes I pinch myself just to make sure this is all real....

landrvr
12-28-2000, 11:31 PM
my typical response to the laser disc comparison: you can't compare. no way, no how. two different mediums that emerged in two very different economic climates and marketplaces. at the time you guys were shelling out the big bucks for those laserdiscs, i could barely afford to buy a pack of ramen noodles. it's all relative, i suppose...

now, i seem to recall that when the very first DVDs appeared on the scene, they were not the very nice $15-25 dollars per disc price that we see today. no, sir. weren't they more like $40+?

that aside, c'mon. flesh for frankenstein is still an overpriced disc. i don't care if criterion is comprised of one little old guy who is starving to death, and needs the money to feed himself AND put his cancer-ridden wife in a treatment program. they should lower the friggin' price.

it's been on the street for over two years now, and the price hasn't budged an inch. my local tower records on clark street has 8 copies of this DVD. how many copies did they have last month? 8. how many did they have two months ago? 8. how many copies did they have a year ago? 8. how many copies have they sold in the past year? according to the friendly salesperson that checked: none. there ya go.

hey, criterion can charge whatever the hell they want for a DVD. that's there choice. i just wonder when tower records is going to start charging criterion rent for taking up shelf space?

AceRimRat
12-28-2000, 11:55 PM
I'm not a laserdisc-er, so this is the opin of somebody who got into DVD pretty early as a start to his laser-ness.

But I find Criterion's prices make them a "must-want" buy - that is, I don't take fliers on Criterion (or other) $40 titles, I only buy them if I really want the movie.

For instance, I had no problem paying $40 for RoboCop or Silence of the Lambs.

But I've never been able to talk myself into getting Frank or Drac. I'd like them, but not enough. Yet.

DVD Connoisseur
12-29-2000, 12:04 AM
landrvr, please don't mention ramen noodles again - you're making my stomach rumble! I agree with you on the Criterion issue - I've just ordered Robocop but it was a real moral dilemma forking out that much dosh for what isn't, at the end of the day, a splendid disc. I also have reservations about the Armegeddon DVD - it's serious money.

Paff
12-29-2000, 12:13 AM
Another thing to consider is that Criterion is pretty much the only independent laserdisc company that has been able to survive in the DVD age. (How many DVDs has Elite released in the last year? They used to put out quality laserdiscs left and right). If that means a higher than average cost, then that's what THEY have to do to avoid eating Ramen noodles.

Or would you rather us just add Flesh for Frankenstein and Blood for Dracula to the post of "Laserdiscs not available on DVD"?

Yes, it sucks, but ya gotta live with it sometimes.

Django
12-29-2000, 12:58 AM
Jeez, what are you guys bitching about. I once paid $125.99 for the Alien CAV LD Boxed Set just so I could use the stupid trailer for a class project.

And doing so ment I had to skip going to or renting movies for two months.

Anyway, you cats know my stance on Criterion and how I have it in for them more so then even Anchor Bay. I only just a few weeks ago copped out and bought Brazil, which surprisingly was perfect disc wise making it and Time Bandits the ONLY CRITERION DVDs I haven't have problems with.

I sense a pattern here if I could just put my finger on it...

Point is, just cause it says "The Criterion Collection" doesn't mean its the best there is. Having seen both versions, MGM's (BOO, HISS) Spinal Tap is above and beyond better then Criterion's. Just as I imagine their Silence of the Lambs and Robocop discs will be.

If you dig the movie, then go for it...

mutleyhyde
12-29-2000, 01:00 AM
Hey, about that Armageddon set; I saw a single case of it at Worst Buy yesterday. What's up with that? Are the two discs inside still, or have they found a way to fit everything on one disc, or - choke - have they done away with some extras? I guess I could have looked on the back and found out, but dared not take the time as I was wrestling through the post-Christmas mayhem with fellow treasure hunters.

------------------
"When I go to confession, I don't offer God small sins - petty squables, jealousies - I offer him sins worth forgiving!"

May the Hammer eternally bleed!
M. Hyde

AceRimRat
12-29-2000, 01:22 AM
Armageddon (another one I have the Criteron of) was originally released by Disney as a one-disc, fairly bare bones DVD.

Criterion did the two-disc one that just has the "Armageddon" logo on it.

Disney's has Ben Affleck, Bruce Willis, etc., on the cover.

ArrowBeach
12-29-2000, 01:32 AM
If you arent picky with picture quality, Andy Warho's FRANKENSTEIN (a gore classic) or DRACULA isnt that badly priced. Anchor Bay wants 30.00 (20.99 at most on line store) dollar for barebone DVD like CANNIBAL MAN, DONT TORTURE TH DUCKLING, VAMPIRE HAPPENING, while the Andy Warhol films are priced at 28.49, like buy.com, at most on line store. extra 7.50 isnt a bad idea, thats a price of 2 hot dogs and a small fry at the movies, isnt it? And reember FRANKENSTEIN and DRACULA is same priced as the godawful NOTLD LT edition Anchor Bay put out that sadly out sold Elites NOTLD. http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/frown.gif ):

Besides in terms of collectability, a criterion DVD when it goes OOP, they are priceless. I doubt CANNIBAL MAN will be worth more, do you? So Criterion DVD hasa re-sell value IMHO.

[This message has been edited by ArrowBeach (edited 12-29-2000).]

AceRimRat
12-29-2000, 02:25 AM
Yeah, Arrow, but if you bought NOTLD 30 you got that *GREAT* soundtrack CD! http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/biggrin.gif

But you do have a good point about the OOP status - I hope saying that won't start another Salo thread.

[This message has been edited by AceRimRat (edited 12-28-2000).]

Mark Relford
12-29-2000, 04:42 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ArrowBeach:
And remember FRANKENSTEIN and DRACULA is same priced as the godawful NOTLD LT edition Anchor Bay put out that sadly out sold Elites NOTLD. http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/frown.gif


The mind boggles at how Russo's Hackmaster 2000 edition outsold Elite's superior version! Hell, Russo can't even make a decent T&A flick! (Santa Claws)
Maybe the retailers are not ordering copies of the Elite disc, due to the overstock of AB's shitbox edition.

I didn't mind paying the hefty price on Duckling. I've seen it several times and I'm happy to have it in my collection.



------------------
"Have you ever had an Egyptian feast?"

"They're back from the grave and ready to party!"

mutleyhyde
12-29-2000, 08:26 AM
Yo Ace, you misunderstand me. I saw a Criterion, single disc case. It looks exactly the same as the original Criterion, with the black keeopcase, and the "Armegedon" logo only, black background cover, only it was a slimline (so to speak) case, not the double. Did that all make sense?

By the way y'all, did the AB NOTLD travesty not contain Romero's version as well? And if so, was it altered at all? If not, what was the second disc for?
------------------
"When I go to confession, I don't offer God small sins - petty squables, jealousies - I offer him sins worth forgiving!"

May the Hammer eternally bleed!
M. Hyde

[This message has been edited by mutleyhyde (edited 12-29-2000).]

MovieFan
12-29-2000, 08:57 AM
Mutley, the case holds both discs. The newer pressings of Armageddon: Criterion Collection are in that case that looks like it holds one disc, but it holds two (ex: From Dusk Till Dawn: SE and Gladiator).

mutleyhyde
12-29-2000, 09:09 AM
That's cool. While it would have made the first one a collector's item, I'm glad they didn't have to strip down the release due to rights/legal issues, as they had to with Seven Samurai. And I like the slim case solution. I know a lot of people had their gripes with Gladiator, but I for one love that packaging and haven't had any bad luck with it.

------------------
"When I go to confession, I don't offer God small sins - petty squables, jealousies - I offer him sins worth forgiving!"

May the Hammer eternally bleed!
M. Hyde

landrvr
12-29-2000, 02:41 PM
mutleyhyde:

the AB 30th ann NOTLD does contain a cut of the original film. however, the original soundtrack was thrown out in favor of a positively horrible, new one that was recorded in 1998 by 2 guys in a garage.

the 2nd disc contained, if i remember, the soundtrack. yipee.

Dave
12-29-2000, 03:03 PM
the AB 30th ann NOTLD does contain a cut of the original film.


You mean to say "does not contain a cut of the original film", right? The 30th Anniv. Edition contains the hacked version of the film which has scenes cut and newly shot footage added.

------------------
David W. Anderson - dave@horrordvds.com
Webmaster - www.horrordvds.com (http://www.horrordvds.com)

AceRimRat
12-30-2000, 01:55 AM
OK, mutley, I gotcha. Hadn't seen that version.

To Dave, etc., the NOTLD 30th Hackmaster (love that!) edition contains on one disc, two versions of the movie: the Hackmaster version with added footage and new score (and I use the term generously); and the original version with the new score (still being generous). The second disc is a CD of the crappy new muzak (ah, screw it).

landrvr
12-30-2000, 02:06 AM
i said it 'does' contain a cut of the original film. and it does. as acerimrat points out, it's in addition to the version that i've really come to love.

kidding.

mutleyhyde
12-30-2000, 02:11 AM
Okay, thanks for the input y'all. Now I'm definitely glad I got the Elite version with the original soundtrack. I think it would have been much better for AB had they left the original soundtrack on as an option. Universal did this with Dracula ('31) with great success. The new Phillip Glass soundtrack is really good, and certainly helps the infamously slow paced movie along, although, as a purist, I prefer the original soundtrack still. Final thought; why would they go through the trouble of putting the original version on as a "bonus" with the new score? Kinda defeats the purpose of including the original version, right? Oh, well. I think they make up for this blunder with their Deep Red release. Just watched that last night, and it sure is sweet!

Oh, and getting back to the original topic - I haven't picked up Image's Derzu Uzala (by A. Kurosawa) 'cause it's $40, bare bones no less! Even online it's still high at $30. I only throw that kind of dough at Criterion!
------------------
"When I go to confession, I don't offer God small sins - petty squables, jealousies - I offer him sins worth forgiving!"

May the Hammer eternally bleed!
M. Hyde

[This message has been edited by mutleyhyde (edited 12-29-2000).]

Dave
12-30-2000, 02:16 AM
Oh...I didn't realize that. Sorry. http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/smile.gif

I could've sworn it only had that new hacked version...my mistake. When I had it I got rid of it so quick after seeing it, knowing that the Elite DVD was the only version to own.

------------------
David W. Anderson - dave@horrordvds.com
Webmaster - www.horrordvds.com (http://www.horrordvds.com)

AceRimRat
12-30-2000, 02:50 AM
The Elite disc is the only one to WATCH.

The AB disc is a terrific conversation piece. http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Hackmaster 2000! I love it!

ArrowBeach
12-30-2000, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by mutleyhyde:
I think they make up for this blunder with their Deep Red release. Just watched that last night, and it sure is sweet!
!

Well they actuallyl DID blunder with DEEP RED. Look at the end credit. It snt the end crdit that we know and love, they PAUSED it, instead of having David Hemmings play with the blood.

mutleyhyde
12-30-2000, 05:36 AM
I was wondering about that ArrowBeach. I think I saw what you're talking about on one of the trailers. They had a clip of a shot with his reflection bobbing about the crimson pool. Like you say, at the end of the dvd, it's just a still shot. I wondered if that footage was only used for the trailer and was originally cut from it's initial theatrical release. I know things like this have happened to other movies. Have you seen a version of Deep Red with the footage intact? This was my first time to watch Deep Red, so I'm no expert on previous editions. I just thought the transfer was really well done, but have no previous experience to do any comparisons.

------------------
"When I go to confession, I don't offer God small sins - petty squables, jealousies - I offer him sins worth forgiving!"

May the Hammer eternally bleed!
M. Hyde

AceRimRat
12-30-2000, 06:01 AM
Hasn't AB admitted to screwing this up?

I thought I read somewhere they did it because the credits were in Italian over the moving-blood scene or something, and in trying to get the English ones it was the wrong print? Or something?

Anybody know?

Mark Relford
12-30-2000, 06:33 AM
Man, all this talk about Deep Red makes me want to run out and buy the damn DVD! I've never seen it. In your opinion, is it right up there with Suspiria and Phenomena? (Two of my favorite Argento flicks.)



------------------
"Have you ever had an Egyptian feast?"

"They're back from the grave and ready to party!"

Dave
12-30-2000, 06:42 AM
I bought Deep Red the day it was released. Believe it or not, I've NEVER seen it. It's been sitting on my shelf, unwatched. http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/frown.gif

I'm hoping to watch it this weekend.

------------------
David W. Anderson - dave@horrordvds.com
Webmaster - www.horrordvds.com (http://www.horrordvds.com)

Paff
12-30-2000, 06:59 AM
Dave, if you've had this disc for 9 months and haven't watched it ONCE you need to resign your position here.

This is the crowning example of what a properly re-mastered DVD can do for an older film. Not to mention it's one of the high points of the brilliant career of Dario Argento.

seriously, watch the movie. At the very least, you shouldn't admit to owning it for so long without watching it. (Yeah, I know, I have a large backlog of unwatched discs too, but this is Deep Red, man...)

mutleyhyde
12-30-2000, 08:41 AM
Yo, Mark... Suspiria and Phenomena are very different movies compared to Deep Red. They deal with super-natural elements, whereas Deep Red is strictly a thriller (okay, okay, there is a psychic in it). If you liked Bird with the Crystal Plumage, yet thought that it could have somehow been better, Deep Red would prove you dead right. Check it out bud.

As for the end credits, that totally bites if that is the case. I personally would not mind Italian credits. They could just put English credits after the original credits. Hell, that would even give them an excuse to run some out-takes or some-such while they're rolling. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't at least Tenebre (AB's dvd) open with Italian credits? Not that it means anything.

------------------
"When I go to confession, I don't offer God small sins - petty squables, jealousies - I offer him sins worth forgiving!"

May the Hammer eternally bleed!
M. Hyde

Paff
12-30-2000, 09:36 AM
First of all, I should mention I wasn't serious about suggesting Dave should resign for not watching Deep Red. Well, not 100% serious. Trust me, man, after you DO watch it, you'll be kicking yourself in the ass for not watching it sooner. And guess what? It gets even BETTER the second, third, fourth, etc time....

There is one connection with Deep Red and Phenomena: The whole insect telepathy thing. OK, it only gets about 2 minutes of play in Deep Red, but it's clear Dario wanted to do something along those lines someday.

Also, the comparison to Bird With the Crystal Plumage is well deserved as well. They're both among his strongest narratives, and with similar themes. I've mentioned before, that I like to call those two movies, and then The Stendhal Syndrome, to be the Dario Argento "Art Trilogy". Three great movies there.

Finally, what the hell does this have to do with Flesh For Frankestein?? Well, I'll tell you: Nicoletta Elmi! She's the little girl in both movies, and anyone who's seen Demons knows she grew up quite nicely. A spaghetti horror staple, she is.

ArrowBeach
12-30-2000, 01:51 PM
check the DEEP RED LD form Japan, and the edited THRON/EMI VHS tape of it, and you will see a English language credit rolling while David Hemings is playing with the pool of blood,. I thought it wa a nice scene,a nd still cant figure out why they couldnt keep it in.even if the oriignal credit print is damaged, couldnt they re-master the end scene without the credits, then put avideo credit over the moving image? Another blunder (no one is perfect, yet you wish, since this is a classic!)

The Chaostar
12-30-2000, 03:18 PM
Flesh For Frankenstein is NOT anamorphic.
At least , Criterion should have bothered to do that before pricing their disc this much.
But they didn't...

DVD Connoisseur
12-30-2000, 04:51 PM
Anchor Bay did admit that the print they were working with didn't have the moving image at the end. I read it on the recent forum they did recently. It's not a tragedy but it makes the disc only 95% perfect!

Dave, watch that Deep Red DVD! Tonight! I envy you being able to watch that movie for the first time. It's just so fine......

Mark Relford
12-31-2000, 12:10 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mutleyhyde:
[B]Yo, Mark... Suspiria and Phenomena are very different movies compared to Deep Red. They deal with super-natural elements, whereas Deep Red is strictly a thriller (okay, okay, there is a psychic in it). If you liked Bird with the Crystal Plumage, yet thought that it could have somehow been better, Deep Red would prove you dead right. Check it out bud.


Thanks, M. Hyde. http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/smile.gif I'll pick it up tomorrow.
Haven't seen Tenebre or Bird with the Crystal Plumage either. (I know, shame on me!)




------------------
"Have you ever had an Egyptian feast?"

"They're back from the grave and ready to party!"

Dave
12-31-2000, 12:19 AM
Heh heh...resign? NEVER! http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/smile.gif

Well, I'm not watching it tonight. I've been working on Blood and Blace Lace. I'll most likely be watching it Monday night.

------------------
David W. Anderson - dave@horrordvds.com
Webmaster - www.horrordvds.com (http://www.horrordvds.com)

AceRimRat
01-01-2001, 09:11 PM
I got Deep Red a little while back and saved it for last among the Argento stuff I bought, so I ended up watching on a "red and green" day - Christmas! http://www.horrordvds.com/forum/biggrin.gif

And Mark, I thought Tenebre was awesome - so check it out if you've got the dough.

(By the way, did any of you Gladiator fans get a look at how different David Hemmings looks now? I know it's like 25 years later, but he doesn't even look like the same guy, and I'm not talking about the wig!)

DVD Connoisseur
01-01-2001, 10:43 PM
Hemmings certainly looks different but it's great to see him in the movies again. Incidentally, I caught him in a Bond documentary recently, chatting about the '60s Connery films. All of a sudden, he seems to be popping up all over the place! (Wouldn't it be great if he did a cameo in a new Argento flick?)