Amityville bullshit or Not?

[Ash28M]

I'm probably leaning towards it being at least for the most part an over active imagination by George Lutz but seeing the emotion in his eyes, talking about it at Horror Find weekend a couple of years ago. Has at least givin me a more open mind about it.

Here is a link to some good FAQ about the Hoax theory

http://www.amityvillefaq.com/hoax.html#confess

The funny thing to me is that if all this Ghost stuff is garbage. Then why would there be a law in place in most States Including New York that makes it illegal to Sell a house and not tell the new owners that the House is haunted.

.................................

"stigmatized" property laws

Ghosts bedeviled the other major legal case on stigmatized property.
Helen Ackley had boasted about the presence of spirits in her 18-room
Victorian house in Nyack, N. Y., publicizing it in local newspapers and
writing about it in Reader's Digest. But when she agreed to sell the
place in 1989 to a New York City couple, Mrs. Ackley neglected to
mention the ghosts.
When the buyers learned about the alleged haunting before closing on
the deal, they wanted to back out. Calling the sale "a most unnatural
bargain," a New York state appellate court said the seller had to
disclose the reputed presence of the ghosts. The court canceled the
contract and returned most of the buyers' deposit because "the most
meticulous inspection would not have revealed the presence of
poltergeists at the premises or unearthed the property's ghoulish
reputation."

[Agent Z]

I have really become interested in this topic as of late. It could have something to do with the remake coming around the corner and all those new shiny boxsets at Best Buy with the documentaries/featurettes on their bonus discs.

I need to do more research before I grab two pennies out of my pocket and throw them into the bucket. Thanks for bringing it back up and for making me remember the earlier thread (http://www.horrordvds.com/vb3forum/showthread.php?t=16600&highlight=lutz) on this subject. :)

[HAEMORRHAGE]

The hoax is the reason that Part II is my favorite. It's true to the story, well, the original story (you know, the DeFeo murders) before the hoax ..... and well, the first half of the movie anyways, haha.

[IGotsNewShoes]

Yeah cause lord knows I can't stand the Texas Chainsaw Massacre cause it was advertised as a true story and it's not....

[VideoViolence]

This whole Amityville thing is total bullshit. George Lutz was probably drunk off his ass and most likely taking some pretty strong drugs as well. The only true thing about the whole thing is that Ronald DeFeo killed his family while high on coke. But to say the house was actually haunted? Bullshit.

[steve_p]

You act as if this movie was ever good. I think the only good Amityville is the 2 one Burt Young aka. Paulie from Rocky

[Ash28M]

I like the first Amityville. I never understood why it got so much slack. It's underrated IMO.

[adric]

im not much to believe in haunted houses or ghosts, so i think it was a hoax.

[steve_p]

how do you watch horror then I mean haunted houses and ghosts are like most of the movies.

[rxfiend]

i believe some of it happened, but probably not to the extent that they claimed. I believe there are ghosts out there. However, i'm not gonna try to convert any skeptics, because if you're not gonna believe, i doubt anything would ever change your mind.

[indiephantom]

I don't think it's true or a hoax...I just think the Lutzes imagined a lot of it, or were just easily spooked. Paranoia, delusions, etc. They may believe it.

[steve_p]

lets just face it the Lutzes were tripping balls and seen some shit that wigged them out .Thats the true story that will be 8.50 I solved it.

[adric]

how do you watch horror then I mean haunted houses and ghosts are like most of the movies.

im not saying im not entertained by the notion, but i also dont believe im gonna get possessed by satan or be bit by a vampire either.

[steve_p]

im not saying im not entertained by the notion, but i also dont believe im gonna get possessed by satan or be bit by a vampire either.
Come on what about the The Exorcist.

[dmeister]

It's actually well-documented bullshit. And the current owners seem to like the house just fine. Anson wrote a great book, though.

dmeister

[IGotsNewShoes]

My whole take on the subject is..whether it's fake or not, it makes a hell of a book and a great movie series. I don't discount Friday the 13th and such because they are fake, why would I discount this one if it was?

[RyanPC]

how do you watch horror then I mean haunted houses and ghosts are like most of the movies.

Just because you don't believe in haunted houses or ghosts doesn't mean you can't enjoy movies that have haunted houses or ghosts in them.

Come on what about the The Exorcist.

What about it? You seem to think everything you see in the movies is real. :eek2:

[HAEMORRHAGE]

Eh, George Lutz is just the most notable real estate scam artist, that's all. "There's ghosts in my house, give me my money back!" :lol:

[Ash28M]

It's actually well-documented bullshit. And the current owners seem to like the house just fine. Anson wrote a great book, though.

dmeister

And, it has been just as well documented by people saying it wasn't a hoax. It’s still their family word against the “neighbors” or Police. I could be growing a marijuana farm in my house and have bodies in the fridge and my neighbors wouldn’t have a clue.

Do you have ghost handbook that says a ghost has to continue haunting a house, family after family or even stay in that house once the family they are haunting has left.

I'm not saying it's not bullshit. But how do you go about proving the non existence of Ghosts? Do you have absolute proof that another place is haunted so when can compare the too scenarios?

[life_o_petey]

100% bullshit in my eyes. I still love the movie and enjoy reading on the subject, though. I'm a skeptic when it comes to ghosts and ufos and things like that, but i'd love to see evidence that will change my mind about it.

[Katatonia]

I remember vaguely going to a specialist doctor for a few months back in 1990. He had an island getaway somewhere near Amityville where he grew up as a kid. He said something about one of the priests directly involved in the case told him that the supernatural side of it was blown way out of proportion, and was basically a huge media hoax.

I still enjoy the movies however, and the case is still vastly intriguing to study.

[steve_p]

The truth to the story is not that the house was haunted but that there was murders in the house that is the truth of it not the haunting.

[steve_p]

[QUOTE=RyanPC]Just because you don't believe in haunted houses or ghosts doesn't mean you can't enjoy movies that have haunted houses or ghosts in them.

I think it adds to the effect of the movie the scare factor if you don't believe it just a little. I mean what the hell do you watch horror for if not for the scare or chills.

[Ash28M]

The truth to the story is not that the house was haunted but that there was murders in the house that is the truth of it not the haunting.

The murders are not what we're questioning here.

If you really think about it rationally. For there to have been a hoax then George Lutz would have had to seen the murders on the news and then said to himself. I want to buy that house move my family into it for a Month and then leave all my furniture there and then tell everyone that it was haunted. Praying that someone will believe me so I can make money off of it. When there was evidence he already was pretty comfortable financially at the time and even if you think he wasn’t that’s a pretty big gamble to play with your family lives. Something about that doesn’t sit right with me.

[dmeister]

And, it has been just as well documented by people saying it wasn't a hoax.

No, it has not. What credible accounts have you seen from people saying that it wasn't a hoax?

DeFeo's lawyer, who helped orchestrate the entire charade, admitted it was all a scam. The priest could only corroborate a few details, and even those were suspicious. And keep in mind that it has long been established that Anson took several liberties with the original statements from the Lutzes in order to make the book more dramatic. What you see in the film is a very exaggerated version of what George and Kathy Lutz actually claim happened. And, of course, no-one who has lived there since has complained about anything other than the publicity.

The fact is George Lutz owned a business that was struggling, and probably couldn't afford the mortgage. If I recall correctly, after "fleeing" the house, they even came back a week or two later to hold a yard sale.

Do you have ghost handbook that says a ghost has to continue haunting a house, family after family or even stay in that house once the family they are haunting has left.

So, what you're saying is the "demonic force" that drove DeFeo to kill his entire family and terrorized the Lutzes just got bored and left? The force that was supposedly there in the first place because it was a "hot spot" of psychic energy and sacred indian burial ground from hundreds of years earlier?

But how do you go about proving the non existence of Ghosts?

You may not be able to prove the non-existence of ghosts in general, but you can certainly prove that there are no "hauntings" occurring at 112 Ocean Ave. Besides, the burden of proof is on proving their existence, not their lack of it. I just made up an imaginary friend. Now prove he doesn't exist... ;)

dmeister

[dmeister]

For there to have been a hoax then George Lutz would have had to seen the murders on the news and then said to himself. I want to buy that house move my family into it for a Month and then leave all my furniture there and then tell everyone that it was haunted.

Keep in mind that the murders were the only reason he could even hope to afford it.

And I'm not even saying that they made up everything... But what they claim happened isn't nearly as dramatic as the book/movie, and could easily have been dismissed with rational explanations. A window that was often found closed when no-one remembered closing it. George hearing a loud noise downstairs that Kathy -- sleeping right next to him -- couldn't hear (I often wake up at night just sure I heard something that wasn't there). A screen door getting blown off its hinges. Add a touch of tension and paranoia -- a family was killed there after all -- and it all makes sense.

D

[Ash28M]

Keep in mind that the murders were the only reason he could even hope to afford it.

And I'm not even saying that they made up everything... But what they claim happened isn't nearly as dramatic as the book/movie, and could easily have been dismissed with rational explanations. A window that was often found closed when no-one remembered closing it. George hearing a loud noise downstairs that Kathy -- sleeping right next to him -- couldn't hear (I often wake up at night just sure I heard something that wasn't there). A screen door getting blown off its hinges. Add a touch of tension and paranoia -- a family was killed there after all -- and it all makes sense.

D

That's all I’m saying I don't necessarily believe that the house was haunted but I don't necessarily believe they didn't think the house was haunted either.
And if they believed it wouldn’t that make it no longer a hoax?

George admits the Movie was way off from being factual but the book was closer to the truth as they still changed something, as I all they had to go on was there tapes.

[dmeister]

Then let's call it a hysteria-induced money-making opportunity. ;)

dmeister

[HAEMORRHAGE]

The whole thing stemmed back from someone claiming the house was built on an indian burial ground or something like that. They even tried pushing that story back to the DeFeo murders saying that Butch, or whatever his name was, was possessed by the ghosts which caused him to kill. Eh, ok, sure, I suppose, haha. Those same "ghosts" are behind the hauntings in the Lutz hoax. It's just funny. It's a house where a family was murdered, simple as that, there's no ghosts or anything. Still, it makes up for one of my favorite movies ever.

[Wermode]

To me, "superstition" means believing in things because you want to do so, not because there is a "reason" to believe it. People who believe in ghosts choose to do so. To my knowledge (and I follow this stuff pretty closely) there is no reliable, reproducible, scientific evidence of such things, at least none that has passed any rational investigation or scrutiny; therefore, ghosts still belong in the realm of superstition.

Maybe someday someone will actually demonstrate a ghost's existence--say by summoning one repeatedly at will, or otherwise standing up to the scrutiny of investigation, maybe having someone else replicate their procedure. At that point ghosts will enter the world of science and reason. So far, no one has done that. In the mean time, don't expect rational people to believe in superstitions. When I see someone selling superstition, I see someone trying to make money off of another's ignorance and gullibility: "Care to buy some miracle water? How about an ionic bracelet? Psychic surgery?"

As for enjoying horror without being superstitious, I don't think there's a problem there. That stuff has worked for years across cultures through myth and symbol, which for many are the only places "supernatural" works at all. If it worked, it would be "natural." Does anyone have to believe in werewolves to appreciate The Wolfman or Ginger Snaps?

[RyanPC]

I mean what the hell do you watch horror for if not for the scare or chills.

Well if everyone just watched horror movies to be scared, then I'm sure most people would be disappointed by now. :rolleyes:

I watch horror movies for the plot, basically... not for any supposed "scares" that it may contain. A horror movie might not be scary at all, but I can still love it for the storyline and the direction.

[steve_p]

I know all those direct to video storyline movies just keep me in my seat.

[steve_p]

I am not going to keep bitching about this its kind of pointless. Its not like this movie is any good it will probably just going to have so many special effects in it just like all the other remakes.

[Mortis]

You're in the wrong genre if that's your attitude.

I know all those direct to video storyline movies just keep me in my seat.

[Mortis]

I can't figure out what you're bitching about. This thread isn't even about the remake.

I am not going to keep bitching about this its kind of pointless. Its not like this movie is any good it will probably just going to have so many special effects in it just like all the other remakes.

[indiephantom]

I know all those direct to video storyline movies just keep me in my seat.

jeez dude...this is a horror forum.

[maybrick]

how do you watch horror then I mean haunted houses and ghosts are like most of the movies.

I don't have to believe in vampires to get creeped out by SALEMS LOT. I don't have to believe in zombies to be unnerved by DAWN OF THE DEAD. I don't have to believe in ghosts to get the jitters from THE SHINING. It's called "suspension of disbelief".

Dig it.

[RyanPC]

I don't have to believe in vampires to get creeped out by SALEMS LOT. I don't have to believe in zombies to be unnerved by DAWN OF THE DEAD. I don't have to believe in ghosts to get the jitters from THE SHINING. It's called "suspension of disbelief".

Dig it.


Exactly. You're going to have trouble liking ANY movies if you have to believe everything you see. :D

I know all those direct to video storyline movies just keep me in my seat.

Um, yeah. What do direct-to-video movies have to do with this? I'm talking about classic horror here, man.

[Ash28M]

I just watched the documentary’s that came with the box set and I’m even less sure now about the Hoax theory that I know allot more of the facts. The psychics that were there, the priests and the family still claim it happens and the Lutz’s passed a polygraph test. Not to mention they left all there belonging in the house. Making a fraction of what they were worth later on in an auction. Yet the two people that the family pissed off, claimed it didn't happen. I think I am starting to more convinced that at least the family sincerely believes something happened to them. Whether it did or not, There is no way I’m convinced that a family that was supposedly strapped for cash would take such a huge gamble that their concocted story would take off. That they would risk so much, even leaving their possessions behind. In hopes it would pay off for them. It’s almost more naive to believe that.