PDA

View Full Version : Maniac; Elite LD vs Elite DVD vs A.B. DVD


jscott
11-01-2001, 06:19 PM
I just won the Elite S.E. of Maniac on Laserdisc. Now, how does it compare to the Elite DVD or the Anchor Bay DVD. The main feature that I noticed is 5.1 sound , and it doesn't matter too much to me right now (still using Dolby Pro Logic), but I was just curious.

Paff
11-01-2001, 07:22 PM
5.1 sound with laserdisc is a pretty serious (and expensive!) committment. But that's another topic...

Anyway, I've never seen the Elite Maniac LD. It's probably a shade better than the Elite DVD (LD -> DVD ports always lose a little something).
If you check my review, I did compare the Elite and Anchor Bay DVDs. The Anchor Bay DVD has a little better picture, but also has a great Joe Spinell documentary.

It really depends on how much of a Maniac fan you are. I appreciate the movie, but it's definitely dark and disturbing, so I don't see myself watching it that often. If I had already owned either of the Elite versions, I probably wouldn't have gotten the AB.

But on that note, I just love all of Elite's LDs. They really were the cream of the format, and I think that any Elite LD is still the best version of any given release. It's too bad their DVDs pale in comparison. It was such a great company...

jscott
11-01-2001, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Paff
It's too bad their DVDs pale in comparison. [/B]

Have you seen Elite's Night of the Living Dead DVD? It looks (IMO) better than the Elite LD, as far as a sharper picture and stronger blacks. Maybe that's because I've got my DVD hooked up through component cables and my LD with an S video cable.

But the supplemental section on the LD is huge! That's why I own both versions.

Paff
11-01-2001, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by jscott


Maybe that's because I've got my DVD hooked up through component cables and my LD with an S video cable.



Huge mistake! Unless you own a Pioneer Elite 99, you should never use the S-Video connection with Laserdisc. Never.

Here's why:

LD is a COMPOSITE source, which means the picture is already completely assembled on LD. It needs to be broken down into the separate components (Y&C). To do this requires a comb filter. Now, if you use the S-Video out on the LD Player, you're using the player's comb filter. If you use the Composite Video out, you're using your television's comb filter. It's highly likely that your TV has a MUCH better comb filter than the LD Player. (and if your TV has component ins for DVD, then I guarantee it has a better comb filter). Thus, you'll get the best possible LD picture from the single yellow composite output.

Admittedly, I have a near top-of-the-line LD player, so I'll always prefer the Elite LDs to their DVDs. If both your LD and DVD player are middle-of-the-road, the DVD will likely outshine the LD.

jscott
11-01-2001, 08:36 PM
I had no idea that the composite output on a LD player looks better than an S video cable. I'll have to switch em around when I get home tonight. And yeah, my laserdisc player is a mid line player (RCA LDR600), so that's why it outshines my DVD (Toshiba SD2700). You had replied to a post I made about certain CLV discs shimmering. Do you think that nixing the S video cable would reduce that problem? Also, you had said that RCA LD players were really Pioneer players with an RCA label. Is there a way that I can find out if my player is made by Pioneer? The production date on mine is June 94. Maybe take the top off and look for Pioneer parts inside? I can't complain too much about my LD player, I only paid $100 on closeout, and got a stack of free laserdiscs.

Thanks for passing on your LD knowledge.

Paff
11-01-2001, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by jscott
Do you think that nixing the S video cable would reduce that problem? Also, you had said that RCA LD players were really Pioneer players with an RCA label. Is there a way that I can find out if my player is made by Pioneer? The production date on mine is June 94. Maybe take the top off and look for Pioneer parts inside?

Nixing the S-Video can't hurt. Whether or not it eliminates the shimmering I don't know, but it's worth a try. Let me know how it works. I've tried both, and I notice a less noisy picture with (good) composite cabling. It's not a major difference, but it's definitely a difference. And the science behind it makes perfect sense.

And yeah, if you pop the top, you'll see a mess of chips all with the Pioneer logo on them. My back-up player is a Pro-Scan, and Pro-Scan is an RCA subsidiary. If Pro-Scans are Pioneer clones, then it's a safe bet that RCAs are too.

MISFITZ
11-01-2001, 09:11 PM
Interesting Paff....

Mind if I ask where you got your resources?

I had always hooked up my Laser Disc player through my composite cables. And it always looked awesome. However, when i bought an EXPENSIVE BIG SCREEN TV with all the works, I hooked up my Laser Disc player through the S-Cable. I noticed the image looked a bit uglier! On the black bars you can "slightly" see a few mixes of red, green, blue, etc...

Most people wouldn't notice because it still is a GREAT picture, but I noticed right away!! I always blamed it on the size of my set. The bigger the screen the bigger the flaws!

I'm dying to go home tonight and try hooking it up through composite. Your post makes sense, and could actually be the fix to my small "blemish". I mean, black should be black. Not a rainbow of colors swirling in the black. My other devices don't do this. Even my SP VHS look damn sharp!!

I'll post back when I test this out. I'm getting a new TV anyways, but it will also have multiple inputs and this thread could play a part on how I set up the joint and my CHOICE of TV sets.

We'll keep ya'll posted....
========================

Not sure if this makes a damn to this post, but I RECENTLY bought the AB MANIAC TIN BOX set. I gotta say the image is SUPERB!!! I'm not sure what extras are included on the Elite LD/DVD, but I love AB's extras! The quotes from film reviewers on this disc are HILARIOUS and interesting!

And the extra CD in the shape of the dude's haed is SWEET!! Not just the fact its cut to his weird ass face, but the music is awesome!! Very VERY good sound! And the music IS pretty kewl!!!

MISFITZ
11-01-2001, 09:56 PM
BTW,

Props repeated for ELITE in the LD world!!

I love my TCM 2 LD!! The artwork is just SICK!!! And the transfer is AWESOME!!!! One of my Fav on LD.

jscott
11-01-2001, 10:13 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MISFITZ
[B]BTW,

Props repeated for ELITE in the LD world!!

Yeah, Elite made some great laserdiscs. My Night of the Living Dead & Dawn of the Dead CAV special edition are my most cherished (and expensive) films that I own. I should have the Elite S.E. LD's of Maniac & Reanimator next week.

Paff
11-01-2001, 10:52 PM
Misfitz: Admittedly, some of my info comes from HTF users, and that's not exactly gospel.

But I did read a very long technical piece in Widescreen Review that definitely backs up the theory. Laserdisc is DEFINITELY a composite source, whereas with DVD the Y and C are already separated (in fact, the C is separated twice, which is why Component video is even better).

A comb filter is definitely required to split the signal into something your TV can use. And when you look at TV specs, it's quite clear that not all comb filters are created equal. There's Analog, Digital, and 3-D Digital. It stands to reason that a better comb filter = better picture from a composite source. Since LD player manufacture ceased in the mid to late 90s, I'd wager that any TV newer than 95 or so will have a better comb filter by default.

So, while I first read this from end users on HTF, I did go back and research the science behind it, and it does seem logical.

I'm anxious to hear about the results.

and back on topic, Elite (LD) rules! Day of the Dead, Evil Dead 2 (red disc!), Elm Street......

MISFITZ
11-01-2001, 11:15 PM
Well, like I mentioned, I DO believe that this will clear up some of the "mud" I have seen since getting the new set.

But I've already sold my TV set and will be delivering to the new person's home later this month! :(

however with the money they paid and a bit I have saved up, I have about a $850 budget I plan to spend. I'm looking at some 36" screens, but have been keepin' a close eye on the COMB filters. They certainly do make a difference. At least from what I can tell at the store.

HHHmmmmm.... have a few more questions....

Should I take this into the "DVD HARDWARE" section???
Hate to sway this good MANIAC thread into tech talk...

jscott
11-01-2001, 11:25 PM
[i]
however with the money they paid and a bit I have saved up, I have about a $850 budget I plan to spend. I'm looking at some 36" screens, but have been keepin' a close eye on the COMB filters. They certainly do make a difference. At least from what I can tell at the store.

HHHmmmmm.... have a few more questions....

Should I take this into the "DVD HARDWARE" section???
Hate to sway this good MANIAC thread into tech talk... [/B]

Bring on the tech talk. Unless we're talking about DVD hardware, keep it here until it gets moved. My Maniac question has been answered already.

If you're looking for a 36" tv, I would recommend a Toshiba Cinema Series, or a Hitachi Ultravision. Stay away from Toshiba Flat Screen TV's. Toshiba uses parts made by Orion for the flat screen tv's (Orion is a cheap tv/vcr brand that Walmart sells at bottom dollar).

Paff
11-01-2001, 11:39 PM
Well, for a new TV, if you're willing to sacrifice some real estate, I'd say go with a Sony Wega.

You want this for one main reason: ANAMORPHIC ENHANCEMENT!

No, it's not a 16x9 TV, but DVDs with 16x9 enhancement have 33% more resolution. The Wegas have an option that allows you to get that 33%.

In your price range though, you won't be able to go bigger than 32", but anamorphically enhanced DVDs are a thing of beauty.

MISFITZ
11-02-2001, 12:00 AM
Actually the set your talking about I've seen at BEST BUY for I think $699. And I was considering it.

Here's my problem... :(

I watch DIGITAL CABLE...need one set of S-Video/audio

I have a DVD player ... I can give up componet for S on this one, I know componet can be better, but it won't out weigh the budget I'm trying hard to keep. So I wouldn't mind using S-video at all.

I have a LD player .... with this posting, i would be more than happy to use composite. and actually while surfing I found 2 articles that TOTALLY describe my problem and go along with Paff's post. Damn! You learn something new everyday. So on this one, I could go composite. (still can't wait to test)

I have a VCR which I would still like to have on composite

And finally, any one of my video game systems needs composite. I don't have it permanately hooked up. It'd be great to have front jacks for this, but in my set up, it needs to be an option without UNPLUGGIN anything.


So.....

One solution is a "distributor" that can support multiple S - connections. They run about $40. However, if I buy a set with only 2 inputs, it sounds like i would need 2 "distributors". One for the S-family and 1 for the Composite Family.

I'm trying to avoid all this and not have a HUGE set of contraptions sitting on top of the set. Any ideas on how to get around most of this....

Maybe I;m not thinking right....

It's driving me nuts and tempts me to shell out more for a TV set. But I can't be spending cash like that!! Times are tough! :( ;)

Hope this made sense...

MISFITZ
11-02-2001, 12:04 AM
Take a look at this...

VIDEO DISTRIBUTOR/SELECTOR (http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=11062044&m=1&cat=784&scat=811)

If I'm reading this correctly, it should be able to connect all the sources i listed above, and be able to determine if it needs the S-plug or the Composite plug. That was one main draw back on other "distributors". You could have everything hooked up, but it would only go through either the S or the Composite.


Any down sides to this method???

Paff
11-02-2001, 12:17 AM
Hope this is not too obvious of a question, but why not go through your receiver?

Even if your receiver doesn't have S or Component video switching, even the most basic receivers have Composite ins and outs.

Connect your VCR, LD, and Video game into your receiver via composite, then you should have a "Video out" on your receiver which then goes to your TV. Viola! Problem solved.

jscott
11-02-2001, 05:20 AM
You were right Paff. The picture on my LD does indeed look better with the composite output. I would have never dreamed it. Thanks a million for the info. As for it reducing the shimmering that I was talking about, it is still noticable, but only on a couple of discs (The Dark Half and Phantasm II, but I've noticed it on discs I've borrowed from my Dad too.). I think I'll call around to find a nearby service center, and see if they have any ideas.

MISFITZ
11-02-2001, 04:00 PM
DIdn't test my set-up last night cuz I went out to watch the Rockets and the World Series. Was to lazy when I came home.

Probably over the weekend i will try.

About the receiver, I had it set-up like that one time and I forgot why I didn't like it that way. The way it's set up now, it's totally optional. What I mean by that is that it doesn't NEED to be on to watch or play whatever unless you want the "sound system" churnning.

I'll have to get a game plan. Thanks for the help, but i need to get TV first and go from there.

But I'm anxious still about my LD player!!! I'm sooooo sure that is the fix!!!

gunner
11-07-2001, 05:51 PM
I read about the ld/composite theory along time ago.I have used both composite and s-video cables for my ld hookup to compare.Strangly my laserdisc player (cld-d?) looks much better with s-video connections.An example is "The Howling SE".On the cav supplements disc there is a still frame of the poster art which pops up between the different supplements.When I used composite connections the red text on these frames had an extreme flicker/wave to them.With s-video it is almost completely corrected.My current tv is a 32" panasonic tau.My player is not an Elite model (I will update with the model # when I get home)so I'm not sure why the s-video is better.I guess I'm just an exception.

MISFITZ
11-08-2001, 12:12 AM
Still haven't tested, because I'm UNHOOKING my system.

I'm just days away from sending it to its new home. :(

I'll wait till I get my new set!! :)