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KR~!
03-16-2007, 01:45 AM
.... maybe... maybe not...

http://www.reuters.com/article/industryNews/idUSL1533248620070315

horrorlover
03-16-2007, 02:59 AM
I'm not buying a blueray player I have other uses for $1,000, but I'm sure eventually HD DVD or Blue Ray will replace dvd's, if you look far enough into the future.

othervoice1
03-16-2007, 03:02 AM
Neither is close to winning for quite a while yet no matter what either side claims- this is still in the baby stages.....

satans-sadists
03-16-2007, 03:10 AM
I'm not buying a blueray player I have other uses for $1,000, but I'm sure eventually HD DVD or Blue Ray will replace dvd's, if you look far enough into the future.

I would much rather put $1,000.00 towards a vacation for starters.

chrishicks
03-16-2007, 03:46 AM
hell, everytime time a Blu-Ray rep farts in the wind they declare victory. I think they've already won over 10000 times by now.

Livingdead102
03-16-2007, 04:41 AM
"Measured in the number of players, Blu-ray is already well ahead of HD DVD because Sony's PlayStation 3 (PS3) video games console comes with a built-in Blu-ray player."

What were the numbers in the article, 5 to 1 in favor of Blu-ray, yet movie sales are about even? Claiming PS3 owners as Blu-ray supporters by default is, I think, a bit disingenuous.

Sam
03-16-2007, 04:49 AM
Still a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng ways away. New DVD releases are selling about 2 million copies opening week while an A-list Blu Ray/HD DVD may hit 20,000 copies.

maybrick
03-16-2007, 05:27 AM
It's a bit hard to take this article seriously when it's sponsored by Sony Blu-Ray.

Katatonia
03-16-2007, 05:57 AM
HD-DVD is still ahead of Blu-Ray in Europe. Not that I really care, but... :p

Livingdead102
03-16-2007, 06:25 AM
I guess I'm pulling for HD for some reason, but at the rate I'm getting through college, I won't have to make a decision until they stop making standard DVDs altogether--I should be able to afford a high def tv by then :D

Peter Vincent
03-16-2007, 03:01 PM
Typical Sony Cockiness..."Blu-Ray wins"...yeah right!

I DO believe Blu-Ray currently has the advantage, with the PS3 being such a hot commodity and automatically being built-in to the system (as opposed to a seperate add-on for Xbox 360). Still, the fact that software sells are about even makes me wonder....the software sells will make or break either format!

And this whole Analog DVD will be "done with" in 3 years....I think not! HD itself (cable or DVD) isn't catching on as quickly as they might think. Lots of grandmas & grandpas that own analog DVD ain't looking to buy a Blu-Ray anytime soon.

maybrick
03-16-2007, 03:14 PM
If it defeats standard DVD within 3 years than so be it... I have more DVDs than I need and there are plenty out there still left for me to buy. I will NOT be upgrading to hi-def until I have a TV to support it. Will I in the next 3 years? That all depends upon whether my current TV craps out before then. And even then I may simply use it as an excuse to quit collecting. Standard DVDs will remain fine for my purposes and nothing they do or say can change that.

Franco
03-16-2007, 03:40 PM
Blu-Ray should win. It has more space. Why do you want a media that has less space?

maybrick
03-16-2007, 03:44 PM
Blu-Ray should win. It has more space. Why do you want a media that has less space?


If that's your argument, then what you should really be routing for is Holographic DVD.

geeare
03-16-2007, 04:21 PM
3 years, hahahahahaha...there will be yet another technology of some sort by then. if tech continues to grow as it does then this shit will be obsolete.

Franco
03-16-2007, 04:57 PM
If that's your argument, then what you should really be routing for is Holographic DVD.

Yeah, I should but it's far from being produced in huge quantities. Blu-Ray is gettin' "mass-treatment" (a bit slow yet, though). That's why I think it should be the way ...

KR~!
03-17-2007, 04:54 AM
BTW, who won over DVD-Audio and SACD?

I forget... ;)

JW77
03-17-2007, 06:06 AM
BTW, who won over DVD-Audio and SACD?

I forget... ;)

CD.

I find it amusing that, when discussing HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray, it's always assumed that there will be a winning format.

It's far from a given that consumers will embrace either format.

Katatonia
03-17-2007, 07:21 AM
BTW, who won over DVD-Audio and SACD?

I forget... ;)

:lol: :lol: Vinyl!

Speaking of which, I have an SA-CD capable DVD player and I've never had any desire to purchase an SA-CD. :eek2:

KR~!
03-17-2007, 04:37 PM
:lol: :lol: Vinyl!

Speaking of which, I have an SA-CD capable DVD player and I've never had any desire to purchase an SA-CD. :eek2:

Don't bother, to really hear all the extra details you will need high res speakers which cost a thousands of dollars. Then power amps to run such things, etc.

Unlike say HD-DVD or BLU-RAY where in order to see the full difference you would to.. HEY!!!!

When all channels are in HD-TV then perhaps there will be a need to those two formats, and by then something far better would have replace them.

Vinyl!

seriously, in a proper set-up good old vinyl still beats those other formats. :lol:

honest!

X-human
03-18-2007, 10:23 PM
HD-DVD and Blu-ray disc sales are not even, Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 2:1 since the beginning of the year:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2104850,00.asp

They've also now sold more Blu-ray discs in total than HD-DVD discs year to date. But considering HD-DVD hasn't had anything big on their slate that shouldn't be too surprising. At the moment Blu-ray is "winning" and is looking very favorable with their upcoming release schedule.

Still we're talking about very small numbers, HD-DVD could still pick up the pace especially because price is in their favor (although the cheapest Blu-ray player is already $500 MSRP).

seriously, in a proper set-up good old vinyl still beats those other formats. :lol:

It may, I haven't been able to really talk to any experts about it but in theory is probably true. Certainly Reel to Reel is better.

dwatts
03-18-2007, 11:00 PM
I think it was mentioned earlier, from what I understand, Blu-Ray has done better in the US, with HD-DVD doing better in the rest of the world. The Playstation 3 skews figures, imo. People are buying a games machine which Sony are heavily subsidizing in the hope of "winning" the war by being able to include a Playstation sale as Blu-Ray sale. Software sales have been less impressive generally. However, a Playstation sale ir really primarily a games purchase, not a choice by movie fans plopping for one format over another.

Sony have been losing money quite heavily in all this, it's a big gamble.

Either way, I ain't bothering until things get clearer. I hate the packaging of both Blu-Ray and HD discs.

Sam
03-18-2007, 11:34 PM
Just a small side note -- I'm dual format and one thing I've really come to love lately is always finding mint condition Blu Rays in used bins. It's really annoying to have to turn away great prices ($12-14) on HD DVDs because they're scratched to hell. This could be huge for rental markets if that tiny protective layer can remain scratch free for the long haul. I may also feel more at ease with letting someone borrow or handle a disc now without fear of it returning looking like it was run over a few times by an 18 wheeler. Hopefully that coating will last many, many years.

X-human
03-19-2007, 12:19 AM
I think it was mentioned earlier, from what I understand, Blu-Ray has done better in the US, with HD-DVD doing better in the rest of the world.

I hear Japan is pretty solid for Blu-ray, much stronger than in the US. Australia is locked in Blu-ray but that's simply because HD-DVD was only introduced there last month, sales are so low in Australia it's not hard for HD-DVD to gain ground there (if sales in general pick up).

Overall I'd say we need one unified format soon or we won't have any.

Peter Vincent
03-19-2007, 09:51 PM
Interesting little article I found:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/11/ces2007_hddvd_blu_ray/

Most pros are saying, as was the case with VHS vs. Betamax...again, it comes down to porn! And porn is going with HD-DVD!

Its cheaper to make....period!

If U ain't doing sh*t, here's another little article for some good readin':

http://www.mediacollege.com/video/format/compare/betamax-vhs.html

Sony lost the last war!

dwatts
03-20-2007, 01:13 AM
--Its cheaper to make....period!--

Didn't porn go HD because Sony discouraged them from tarnishing the reputation of Blu-Ray? I recall something.........

onebyone
03-20-2007, 01:49 AM
Just say no to porn (http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/19/HNnopornonbluray_1.html):

Sony said it will not work with the adult film industry to help put their movies on its Blu-ray Disc format, although it will not try to stop them completely.
The company will not allow its disc replicating subsidiary, Sony DADC, to handle adult film titles, it said this week. In markets where it operates around the world the company won't duplicate any movies above a certain rating or that have not been certified by a local motion picture association.

Sony wouldn't disclose exactly where it draws the line, but the rule means that adult movie makers will have to find someone else to reproduce their films in bulk. While other companies offer such services, the adult industry feels it is being cut out of the Blu-ray camp altogether.

The choice of which high-definition disc format to use was "kind of made for us, so everything we are replicating right now is in the HD DVD format," said Robby D, a director at popular adult film maker Digital Playground Inc. "As far as I understand, Sony has said to the replicators that if you replicate adult, you'll lose your license."

Sony's decision to stay away from pornography could have wide implications for Blu-ray Disc. Not only could some companies backing Sony's format will miss out on a lucrative market, but analysts say it could eventually mean that Blu-ray loses out to HD DVD in the battle to become the next-generation DVD format.

Many believe that Sony's Betamax video tape format, while technologically superior to VHS, died because the adult movie industry was barred from using Betamax, noted Jake Richter, an analyst at Jon Peddie Research. "Is Sony doomed to repeat one of the mistakes of the past? It seems like that may be the case," he wrote in a report.

Several adult film companies said the issue is not just gaining access to the "stampers" that reproduce their movies in bulk, but that they also can't get help with technical issues from the companies backing Blu-ray Disc.

"Nobody comes out and says 'No, we won't work with adult.' But Blu-ray just offers no help," said Jackie Ramos, vice president of DVD production at Wicked Pictures, another popular adult movie company.

The Blu-ray Disc Association, which oversees the licensing of the technology, says it has not banned anyone from using the format. "We look forward to working with any content providers interested in providing their audience with the best possible high definition home entertainment experience," the group said in a statement.

One major adult film company, Vivid Video, plans to release a sequel to the classic "Debbie Does Dallas" in both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD this spring, its first-ever high definition video offering. A spokesman for the company, Shylar Cobi, declined to comment on how Vivid would gain access to stampers, but said he does not expect it to be a problem.

Still, several other adult film companies interviewed said the industry as a whole plans to use HD DVD, because of the problems of working with Blu-ray Disc. Wicked Pictures chose HD DVD for the first ever high-definition adult film released this month at the AVN Adult Entertainment Expo in Las Vegas. Several other companies plan to release high definition movies this year, including Digital Playground, which is releasing its first HD DVD title this week.

"Sony is really protective of proprietary information and proprietary products, especially when it comes to the adult market. Sony is always a little more stand-offish and hands-away from it," said Jay Grdina, president of ClubJenna Inc.



I hate to think of porn deciding this rivalry. Of course, I hate to think of porn period.

I still don't think HD-DVD looks that damn impressive. A friend who has Blu-Ray though has got me at least thinking about one day upgrading that way if they win out, but alas, that's still a long way off. Those Blu-Ray discs look great though. I admit to a small degree of temptation there.

bigdaddyhorse
03-20-2007, 05:03 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Some things just look better in SD, and porn is at the top of that list! Esp. porn these days. Yeah you'll be able to read the tattoo's (and know who that ass belonged too:lol: ), but you'll also see every horrible boobjob scar like you've never seen them before. There's other things you'll see that I won't mention here so as not to get this moved to F&G or amke anyone lose their lunch.:nervous:
Bad idea!

Sony does seem intent on committing business suicide though.

chrishicks
03-20-2007, 05:19 AM
I still don't think HD-DVD looks that damn impressive. A friend who has Blu-Ray though has got me at least thinking about one day upgrading that way if they win out, but alas, that's still a long way off. Those Blu-Ray discs look great though. I admit to a small degree of temptation there.

there are some stinkers on both formats but I wouldn't say HD-DVD isn't impressive while Blu-Ray is. I have some amazing looking discs in both formats.

JW77
03-20-2007, 05:41 AM
In markets where it operates around the world the company won't duplicate any movies above a certain rating or that have not been certified by a local motion picture association.

The "porn" issue aside, I find this rather disturbing. That Sony is even attempting to restrict the content of what is released on their pet format is enough to keep me away from Blu-Ray.

Noto
03-20-2007, 05:53 AM
I hate to think of porn deciding this rivalry.

I don't think it necessarily will here. The state of the home video industry is widely different now than it was in the seventies. I can understand porn helping move VHS because it was offering for the first time the chance to view adult films in privacy. It's been almost thirty years since then. Home video is in almost every home. The porn industry is an established entity, and there are no shortage of standard porn DVDs. People will still be able to watch porn, just not necessarily on Blu-Ray disc.

That said, I have no real opinion on porn. I don't watch it, and I don't buy it, but I don't see it as a large issue these days in the format wars as it was when home video was created.

Peter Vincent
03-20-2007, 03:14 PM
I agree with U notorious, like you, I have no intent on buying HD porn (sh*t, I only own about 4 Standard porn DVDs right NOW...and I haven't touched them in about a year), but there's a good chance we are in the minority here.

If the market demands it & HD DVD has it & Blu-Ray doesn't, it COULD (emphasis on could) be the deciding factor in this war as it was with VHS vs Beta.

On a side note, Worst Buy has my dream set up on a 90" projector. Its constantly playing Chronicles of Riddick in HD DVD...it looks and sounds f*ckin FANTASTIC! The Blu-Ray setups in the store (playing the likes of Ice Age 2 & that Sony sampler disc) don't blow me away quite as much, but I'm sure a movie will look equally as good on a similar set-up.

Is Blu-Ray truly superior in quality than HD DVD? I know Blu-Rays hold more, but I haven't seen a "verdict" review or anything yet. If anyone has one, please share.

dwatts
03-20-2007, 03:38 PM
On quality, surely it's not as simple as saying Blu-Ray looks better than HD? Anymore than we can easily compare standard DVD's. Pick up a Brentwood release, and you might well have not bothered to upgrade from VHS! Pick up a Criterion and..........

In other words, we won't truly be able to compare which is better until we have a large base of titles that are available on both formats - not something we can do right now. The quality of the transfer determines a lot, imo. Not simply the format.

bigdaddyhorse
03-20-2007, 06:59 PM
I love those BR demo discs they play in BB and CC that show side by side the difference between HD and SD with clips from "A Knight's Tale" and the bar rolling across the screen.:rolleyes:
Am I supposed to believe that my SD dvds look half as bad as that demo makes them look?
I mean, seriously, they fuzzed up the SD to a level that makes Brentwood look good. Hell, I have 15 old VHS recorded in SLP mode and played 300 times that look better than what they're trying to protray SD dvd in those.:fuck:
Isn't there some law about truth in the advertising? BR should be reported for that demo disc alone! It just leads me to believe that the difference isn't all that if they have to over-dramatize to such a ridiculous extent.

onebyone
03-20-2007, 09:37 PM
I love those BR demo discs they play in BB and CC that show side by side the difference between HD and SD with clips from "A Knight's Tale" and the bar rolling across the screen.:rolleyes:
Am I supposed to believe that my SD dvds look half as bad as that demo makes them look?



That's damn disc is a pet peeve of mine too. SD DVDs most certainly don't look that bad. A Knight's Tale doesn't look that bad. Troma dvds don't look that bad. It's silly for them to even be able to show that demo disc. Not fooling me people.

As for me, I really don't know what is better, HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. I have watched plent of movies at the homes of techno geek friends with both players, and only Blu-Ray has impressed me. That certainly isn't the last word. All I am saying is that HD-DVD hasn't impressed me yet.

Agent Z
03-20-2007, 10:13 PM
Neither format is winning, and I don't see them winning until they can get the mainstream public to start talking about them around the water cooler like we "techno geeks" are online.

With my dvd player upconverting my SD discs, and having seen both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in action, I have to say that neither format inspires me to change over yet. The improvement in picture quality (and sound) is there, but not the leap that was from VHS to laserdisc/VHS to DVD.

I think we are looking at a niche market right now, just as laserdisc was for the longest time. The average consumer, whose dollar ultimately matters in the end, will need more than slightly improved picture and sound to change over. I really don't think these people care about the image quality that much, not when it comes to their DVD purchases. These are the people who are spending a grand and up on HDTVs, but then watching them uncalibrated: they just want a bigger set and a nice enough picture quality. Until one of the formats can really push the additional features possible, in addition to the improved picture/sound, then I don't see how they are going to connect with the mainstream.

If geeks like us are having second-thoughts about embracing these two formats, then what does that say for the mindset of the average joe on the street?

dwatts
03-20-2007, 10:39 PM
Well, when are some good cult films going to arrive in either format? Maybe that would make me change me mind.....

X-human
03-21-2007, 03:01 AM
If the market demands it & HD DVD has it & Blu-Ray doesn't, it COULD (emphasis on could) be the deciding factor in this war as it was with VHS vs Beta.

Blu-ray has porn, 'Debbie Does Dallas... Again' came out on Blu-ray (and HD-DVD) today I believe. They include the original DDD but I suspect it's the SD version.

I don't think porn will have an influence at all in the format war, but it will help people adopt HD quicker overall I think. So long as it's done right there could be lots more to see in HD.

Workshed
06-22-2007, 05:08 PM
Blu-ray Holds 5 to 1 Hardware Lead Over HD-DVD (http://gear.ign.com/articles/798/798463p1.html)
PlayStation 3 comprises bulk of install base.

June 21, 2007 - As reported by Video Business, research firm Digital Entertainment Group has compiled what would appear to be a solid breakdown of the numbers of next-generation DVD players sold in the United States. The research firm concludes that Blu-ray presently holds a 5 to 1 advantage over HD-DVD in installed hardware, primarily on the strength of the PlayStation 3.

According to DEG, 1.5-million Blu-ray players reside in American homes, broken down between 100,000 dedicated players and 1.4-million PlayStation 3s. The HD-DVD install base stands at 300,000 units, apparently evenly split between dedicated players and the HD-DVD add-on drives for the Xbox 360. Such figures are roughly in line with the HD-DVD camp's now slightly dated claim of selling 60% of all dedicated next-gen players. DEG also reported that $55-million has been spent on high-definition movies to date, the majority ($35-million) devoted to Blu-ray.

The figures reveal a not unexpected yet telling picture of the next-gen DVD business. The fact that, roughly a year after each format's launch, neither has sold an impressive number of dedicated hardware units exposes the extremely significant role videogamers are playing in the development of the technologies. PlayStation 3 owners are undoubtedly driving Blu-ray movie sales, and by dint, the entire next-gen DVD industry. What impact this will have on the health of high-definition movies sales remains to be seen, but the situation is undoubtedly unique in that fans of one media (videogames) are defining the future of another (HD-movies).

X-human
06-22-2007, 10:05 PM
So we're looking at 100,000 dedicated Blu-ray players sold and 150,000 dedicated HD-DVD players sold. It's too bad we have a format war and instead of looking at nearly two million HD players sold we're squabbling over barely reaching 100,000 of either.

Shannafey
06-22-2007, 10:20 PM
With my dvd player upconverting my SD discs, and having seen both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in action, I have to say that neither format inspires me to change over yet. The improvement in picture quality (and sound) is there, but not the leap that was from VHS to laserdisc/VHS to DVD.

Totally Agree!!!

othervoice1
06-23-2007, 12:02 AM
FYI the PS3 is struggling in sales right now- maybe if blu-ray does win out or when a loooot more games come out the ps3 will rebound- but the xbox 360 is kicking its butt right now ( and yes I understand the xbox 360 has been out longer but that is part of the reason microsoft looks like they had the better game plan so far) - Sony is ALREADY looking to price cut the ps3 pretty soon- so maybe blu ray can help uplift the ps3 or maybe the ps3 will drag down blu ray over time- this format war between hd-dvd and blu ray and also the xbox 360 and ps3 is very interesting though-microsoft was probably wise not to integrate the hd-dvd as part of their console and drive the price up- putting it as a add-on only seems like it was the right strategy

zombi3
06-23-2007, 01:15 AM
You can't really conclude anything based on the numbers with regard to hardware sales. Since the PS3 comes with Blu-ray, there is no way to tell how many people are buying the device for gaming and how many are buying it to watch movies. In the case of the Xbox 360, there is a separate HD DVD add-on, so you are able to factor in these variables. For all we know, 90% of the people buying the PS3 may never own a single Blu-ray Disc. It would be like removing the PS3 and the Xbox 360 from the equation completely, factoring in only BD/HD DVD standalone and HD DVD add-on sales. Again, the numbers would be bogus.

Software sales are more accurate (clearly in Blu-ray's favor at the moment), though this "war" will likely last for some time. I think it's way too early for either side to claim victory, since both formats combined make up such a small percentage of the home video market. Standard DVD is still dominating the market and it will stay that way at least until HDTVs are sitting in the majority of our living rooms.

KR~!
06-23-2007, 01:34 AM
The Wii is kicking PS3's and Xbox's asses all over the place in sales.

The PS2 may have put DVD over the top and made DVD legit mainstream, remember it really wan't before that, people tend to forget this for some reason.

But, PS3 doesn't seem to be doing this at all just yet, maybe if they lower the price a lot.

horrorlover
06-23-2007, 02:03 AM
The "porn" issue aside, I find this rather disturbing. That Sony is even attempting to restrict the content of what is released on their pet format is enough to keep me away from Blu-Ray.

Exactly, I won't buy any format where they say what movies can be released on it and which can't. What about I Spit on Your Grave, and other movies that are in NC-17 territory.

maybrick
06-23-2007, 02:55 AM
The PS2 may have put DVD over the top and made DVD legit mainstream, remember it really wan't before that, people tend to forget this for some reason.


Because that's rather difficult to prove. People who play video games were likely to adopt the technology anyways. That has no bearing on the majority of people, who don't generally play video games.

KR~!
06-23-2007, 06:19 AM
Exactly, I won't buy any format where they say what movies can be released on it and which can't. What about I Spit on Your Grave, and other movies that are in NC-17 territory.

Porn is coming to Blu-Ray.

read all about it:
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/05/02/pornhd/index.php?lsrc=mwrss

X-human
06-23-2007, 07:13 AM
Exactly, I won't buy any format where they say what movies can be released on it and which can't. What about I Spit on Your Grave, and other movies that are in NC-17 territory.

Sony has no problem with porn, it's companies like Disney that do. Some time in the 80's their VHS tapes got mixed up with porn tapes at a duplication plant and since then Disney will not hire out a duplication plant if it also duplicates porn. Since there are probably less then 5 Blu-ray duplication plants on the planet porn has had to wait awhile in queue. As KR's pointed out, the new Debbie Does Dalls is coming to Blu-ray. Also Jenna Haze Oil Orgy and Luxury Lovers Vol.1 is already out from CDGirls.com.

As for PS3 I believe it's sold better than the X-box 360 had by this time, even if not as well as Sony had hoped. Also it's worth noting that the PS2 has sold more machines this year than have been sold Xbox 360's and Wii's. Xbox 1 isn't even a blip. Ironically Sony's largest competition is itself! No amount of price cuts will change this. The cheaper PS3 system wasn't selling nearly as well as the full featured edition, so it was discontinued. I don't think the price is really the problem, they need games. Desperately.

KR~!
06-23-2007, 07:35 AM
I don't think the price is really the problem, they need games. Desperately.

speaking of which...

PlayStation 3 owners in the U.S. will be get 145 new titles in the near future.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/73210-Sony-Clarifies-PlayStation-3-Software-Statement

KR~!
06-23-2007, 07:36 AM
Anyway, I myself am following this, but nevertheless like many here I am still years away from picking sides. I just want someone to win already. I have seen both on 1080p high end sets and DVDs do not come even close.

JW77
06-23-2007, 04:57 PM
speaking of which...

PlayStation 3 owners in the U.S. will be get 145 new titles in the near future.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/73210-Sony-Clarifies-PlayStation-3-Software-Statement

Have they even released any new PS3 titles since launch?

Seems like all of the stores near me just have the same eight or so titles they've had since last November.

KR~!
06-23-2007, 06:38 PM
The last game system I brought was the PS1!

When I play games, I just play them on my PC, and even then it's normally using MAME or a program to play my old playstation games.

shift
06-23-2007, 07:28 PM
they both loose, till the stop crying like little bitches and make a dual format HD/Blu Ray Player, and then make it region free.

othervoice1
06-23-2007, 08:06 PM
I do like the fact that HD DVD is region free at least

zombi3
06-23-2007, 08:11 PM
they both loose, till the stop crying like little bitches and make a dual format HD/Blu Ray Player, and then make it region free.

LG has a Blu/HD combo player out now, but it doesn't fully support HD DVD interactivity. Samsung is supposedly working on a universal player that is completely compatible with both formats. I believe it is due out by the end of the year.

X-human
06-23-2007, 10:32 PM
they both loose, till the stop crying like little bitches and make a dual format HD/Blu Ray Player, and then make it region free.

Then you're paying for the extra hardware and licensing for two formats which raises the cost when one's all you need. As for regions, that'll be circumvented soon enough. I wouldn't worry about either regions or copy protection.

Recently Toshiba and Microsoft told DigitalBits (6/22) that they feel there's enough room for two separate formats just like with video games. There's just not enough difference between the two to warrant that and the public at large simply doesn't want it. If they did we wouldn't be talking about sales of 100,000.

And I'll believe 145 PS3 games when I see 'em, but I'd love to see 'em.

maybrick
08-20-2007, 10:11 PM
And the scales slowly turn......

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=7894

dwatts
08-20-2007, 10:15 PM
--Recently Toshiba and Microsoft told DigitalBits (6/22) that they feel there's enough room for two separate formats just like with video games.--

They're clearly out of their minds. No-one wants two formats, do they? Well, other than the patent owners.

Katatonia
08-20-2007, 10:54 PM
And the scales slowly turn......

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=7894

:lol: That's practically funny. One format seems a long way off now.

X-human
08-20-2007, 11:26 PM
--Recently Toshiba and Microsoft told DigitalBits (6/22) that they feel there's enough room for two separate formats just like with video games.--

They're clearly out of their minds. No-one wants two formats, do they? Well, other than the patent owners.

Right now the vast majority of people don't even want one HD format, none the less two.

This is really bad for HD disc format in general. It can only prolong the format war, which is exactly what Microsoft wanted. The press release issued by Paramount and Dreamworks is a total lie because Microsoft paid them off: http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/desperation-move-cash-grab-or-intensified-blu-rayhd-dvd-format-war/

Paramount is doing pretty bad compared to other studios and the only major studio doing worse is probably Universal. It's also become known that Universal is being paid off too. We're talking about 50 to 100 million dollars of kick backs, more money that any company's probably making on HD disc sales.

The only reason I want HD on disc is because right now the infrastructure isn't in place for high quality HD for download. Blu-ray offers the highest possible bitrate with the most storage capacity. So that's what I want.

maybrick
08-20-2007, 11:39 PM
If Paramount is taking money, so what? Are you expecting me to believe that Sony isn't paying off studios into the blu-ray corner?

X-human
08-21-2007, 12:10 AM
If Paramount is taking money, so what? Are you expecting me to believe that Sony isn't paying off studios into the blu-ray corner?

I'm not going to argue about what Sony's doing, I doubt they're doing large pay offs (probably don't need to) but I'm sure discounted transfers and duplication is standard practice. So that's that.

My point is that Paramount says they're doing it because HD-DVD is more "family friendly," whatever that means. Maybe you can explain that to me since you seem to always have a quick snap back.

The TRUTH is this is all because MS wrote out a big fat check check, one larger than the profit margins on even Transformers. That's all I said. I can't blame Paramount, someone wrote me that kind of check I'd do whatever they said too, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.

It just means I'll probably have to wait a year or so longer for Witchfinder General in HD, which was probably three years away to begin with. I'm not exactly going to pat Paramount or Microsoft on the ass for that.

chrishicks
08-21-2007, 12:15 AM
I say if Sony can cut checks why can't M$/Toshiba?

maybrick
08-21-2007, 12:31 AM
I doubt they're doing large pay offs (probably don't need to)

Your naivete is quite refreshing. Really. :)

My point is that Paramount says they're doing it because HD-DVD is more "family friendly," whatever that means. Maybe you can explain that to me since you seem to always have a quick snap back.


Families have more mouths to feed, thus more expenses and less money to spend on frivolities. Thus, The cheapness of HD-DVD players to blu-ray make it the obvious choice.

Hows that for a "quick snap back"? :p

Peter Vincent
08-21-2007, 01:52 AM
According to the digital bits, Blu-Ray is definitely the front runner to win this war! And their logic & reaonsings are definitely commendable (more studio support, not much going on at the HD-DVD camp, 3-1 sale figures on titles released on both formats (300 for example), etc.

I don't even have an HD TV yet. I'm also kind of waiting in the wings for a format to win.

Anyone know how Dead Silence looks on HD-DVD? It must look SO good!

zombi3
08-21-2007, 02:52 AM
Anyone know how Dead Silence looks on HD-DVD? It must look SO good!


Pretty damn nice. Hot Fuzz looks even nicer...

chrishicks
08-21-2007, 03:32 AM
According to the digital bits...

Bill Hunt is so drunk on the Blu Kool-Aid its not even funny...

othervoice1
08-21-2007, 05:34 AM
This probably wont make much difference right now but it is a big help to HD DVD that was starting to really hurt without much exclusive studio support- I wont say this will swing things but with the possiblity of HD-DVD standalone players going to around 200.00 this holiday season and a big increase in the sales of HD-DVD add on players for the 360 things are not over yet like Sony wanted everyone to believe. And with the PS3 tanking they cant expect to ride that wave all the way to the finish line. But Blu Ray still has Disney which I believe is a big deal and if the PS3 has a good year next year it will bode well for Blu Ray.

Dave
08-21-2007, 05:42 AM
Blu-Ray: Owned.

Not really, but that was a major hit from Microsoft and Paramount. Wow. Should be interesting to see how it plays out. Seems like it will take years now.

Still wanting blu-ray to win, but if I were to jump on board today, there's only one choice: get both. Same choice as yesterday. With Fox and Sony on blu-ray, it's a must own. With Universal (and now Paramount) on HD-DVD, it's a must own.

JW77
08-21-2007, 05:54 AM
Bill Hunt is so drunk on the Blu Kool-Aid its not even funny...

Oh, it's funny.

He's in full meltdown mode on The Digital Bits. Today has seen no less than four blog posts of hysterical ranting and conspiracy theories. I wouldn't be surprised if he storms into the nearest Best Buy and starts stomping on HD-DVDs and ripping HD-DVD players from their displays and hurling them across the store.

Katatonia
08-21-2007, 06:40 AM
Oh, it's funny.

He's in full meltdown mode on The Digital Bits. Today has seen no less than four blog posts of hysterical ranting and conspiracy theories. I wouldn't be surprised if he storms into the nearest Best Buy and starts stomping on HD-DVDs and ripping HD-DVD players from their displays and hurling them across the store.

I wonder if he's also Ascended_Saiyan (http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=12804&PageNum=1) over on the Invelos forums. That guy worships Sony and Blu-ray a little too much...

rp108
08-21-2007, 07:02 AM
Today's news was a HUGE knock to Blu-ray. Much more than the Blockbuster,Target, and Starz announcements combined. Paramount going HD DVD exclusive really is giving a wake up call to the die hard BR supporters and they are having a real hard time handling it.

I truly believe Warner Bros is next and then a chain reaction. Blu-ray will just be another failed format attempt from Sony like Betamax,UMD,etc.

I even had doubts in HD DVD over the summer but this announcement alone has made me have complete faith that HD DVD will win the format war. BR has thrown all its got at HD DVD and it's not going anywhere.

To a previous post, I have Dead Silence on HD DVD and it does look amazing.

dwatts
08-21-2007, 08:29 AM
--Still wanting blu-ray to win, but if I were to jump on board today, there's only one choice: get both. Same choice as yesterday. With Fox and Sony on blu-ray, it's a must own. With Universal (and now Paramount) on HD-DVD, it's a must own.0--

Well, it's a huge "don't buy anything today" for me, so BOTH lose out for the moment. They need to clean up their act before we all lose interest.

X-human
08-21-2007, 09:06 AM
Hows that for a "quick snap back"? :p

That's pretty much what I was thinking, cost efficient is the closest I could think in terms of "family friendly." Of course remaining SD-DVD is then the most family friendly of all. ;)

And I don't think it's naive to think Sony didn't need to pay off Fox or Disney. They developed BD+ specifically with Fox and Disney, they're all in this together. MGM is partly owned and Columbia / Tri-Star is entirely owned by Sony, they'll never be HD-DVD. As Fox has already shown if they had to choose between BD+ releases or no releases at all they'd choose the later. Simply put, either these studios release on BD or they don't release at all. Doesn't have anything to do with pay offs. HD-DVD simply has no way to win.

Sony may have paid off Blockbuster. I wouldn't be surprised by that. In retrospect it's not that surprising Paramount was bought. The writing was on the wall with the Star Trek release and other suspicious changes on announced titles the past month. It's possible Warner would go HD-DVD exclusive if BD-J Profile 1.1 compliance is delayed, or even if it isn't. They dropped their Total HD disc "until 2008," I suspect they were "talked" out of that. Once Profile 1.1's out in September we'll begin to have a better idea where they stand.

If the format war's not over after the holiday, I'd honestly say don't buy either. Save your money for digital downloads because Microsoft probably won. Retailers won't put up with this for much longer. The market's too small to dedicate shelf space to. If the format wars scares off consumers and HD discs flop, Wal-mart's not going to carry it any longer. HD disc will be as good as dead.

Which makes me think, if retailers don't want to be cut out of the loop they need to decide. If Best Buy decided it's in their best interest to keep HD disc format around to prevent themselves being cut out of the download market, the best move they could make would be ending the format war.

KR~!
08-21-2007, 01:12 PM
It never ends....This guy says what I was thinking, so I'll just post it:

LINK: http://www.trustedreviews.com/multimedia/news/2007/08/21/All-The-Latest-From-The-HD-Format-War/p1

At great personal risk to life and limb we've braved a sortie on the format war front to bring the latest advancements in the ever-raging battle to find a winning distribution medium. Up until now, if there was a general consensus that winner was emerging then it was probably Blu-ray but, alas, things are never so clear cut.

Throwing the proverbial cat in among the pigeons, Paramount and DreamWorks Animation are now lending their exclusive backing to HD DVD, bunking down with such others as HBO and Universal Studios. Paramount had previously sided with Blu-ray, but turned sides after deciding the lower cost discs and players of HD DVD were a better deal.

This means that such titles as the fabulous King Kong and the jaw-dropping 300 will now be joined by the truly awesome Transformers, which really does live up to the HD DVD moniker "The look and sound of perfect" to the letter (Says the 19 year-old tech journalist).

Of course Blu-ray isn't letting its opponent have things all its own way, with arguably bigger studio support with Fox, MGM and Disney all Blu-ray exclusive. In addition to that, Fox and MGM have announced another 29 titles for almost imminent release, of which A Bridge Too Far, Battle of Britain and Edward Scissorhands are notable inclusions.

Finally there are studios like Warner Bros. who are distributing on both formats (with sporadic exclusives on each). The whole situation seems to be turning into a bit of a joke and one can't help but feel that its we consumers upon which it is being played. I'll say it one more time for the record: Can we please not just have a winner and be done?

LINK: http://www.trustedreviews.com/multimedia/news/2007/08/21/All-The-Latest-From-The-HD-Format-War/p1

KR~!
08-21-2007, 01:17 PM
oh yeah, and of course...

counter strike:

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=413

maybrick
08-21-2007, 01:51 PM
For whatever the hoopla and propaganda Sony and blu-ray and all of their supporters say, for all of the theories (conspiracy or otherwise) they choose to espouse as to the reason for this news, I get the distinct feeling that behind closed doors something bad is happening with blu-ray and Paramount switching sides is but a hint or symptom of a greater problem. If one blu-ray supporter has such grave doubts to the format as jump boat entirely, this may very well lead to a landslide into the HD-DVD column as the levels of distrust in the blu-ray format increases.

spawningblue
08-21-2007, 01:55 PM
Yeah, Sony has been f-ing up enough with their PS3, they rushed it and have had so many problems. Maybe they did the same with Blu Ray!?

Ash28M
08-21-2007, 04:44 PM
I'm not sure why anyone would want HD DVD to come out as the victor in all this. Why because it's region free? Big deal it's not going to be long before you can buy a region free Blu-Ray Player. The Fact is Blu-Ray can be layered 8 times! That's 200 Gigs per side and it would work on current players. While HD DVD has been maxed so far at potentially 3 layers at 51Gb and you would have to buy a new player. You would be able to have an entire TV season on one Blu Ray disc. Why wouldn't anyone want that? Just because you invested in a HD DVD player doesn't change the fact that Blu Ray is the logical way to go.

broadwayrock
08-21-2007, 05:45 PM
I'm not sure why anyone would want HD DVD to come out as the victor in all this. Why because it's region free? Big deal it's not going to be long before you can buy a region free Blu-Ray Player. The Fact is Blu-Ray can be layered 8 times! That's 200 Gigs per side. While HD DVD has been maxed so far at potentially 3 layers at 51Gb. You would be able to have an entire TV season on one Blu Ray disc. Why wouldn't anyone want that? Just because you invested in a HD DVD player doesn't change the fact that Blu Ray is the logical way to go.

The only benefit from having additional layers would be to fit more extras on the disc. You wont ever see a company release an entire tv season on a single disc because there is less perceived value from a customer standpoint compared to a multidisc set for the same price.

Transfer quality wise there is virtually no difference between HD-DVD and Blu-ray. What it enevitable comes down to is the choice of titles and the cost of the discs and players for the consumer.

burieddeep
08-21-2007, 06:34 PM
Unfortunately, it looks like the two formats will coexist for some time. Those people who are "waiting to see" which format wins, are going to be waiting for a while. The Betamax/VHS rival went on for over 10 years and Sony lost that one badly!

It's obvious that BD is outselling HD-DVD 3 to 1 because of the PS3. If you look at the sales trend from June 2006 - November 2006, HD-DVD outsold BD 3-1. But once the PS3 was launched in Dec'06, the sales data shifted in favor of BD.

IMO, niether format is offering that much of an upgrade over DVD. When DVD came around in 1996, the upgrades over VHS were amazing. Not only was the A/V quality superior, there were interactive menus, chapter stops etc. Even with all this improvement, many people still continued to purchase VHS. It wasn't until 2003, that DVD became more popular than VHS!

For those of you on the fence, I hope you are patient.

maybrick
08-21-2007, 06:43 PM
Now WAIT a minute.... on the one hand blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 3 to 1 largely on account of the PS3. But on the other hand, the PS3 sales are supposedly bombing in comparison to other game consoles. Hmmmm.... Sounds to me like neither of them are doing so hot.

Dave
08-21-2007, 07:18 PM
IMO, niether format is offering that much of an upgrade over DVD. When DVD came around in 1996, the upgrades over VHS were amazing. Not only was the A/V quality superior, there were interactive menus, chapter stops etc. Even with all this improvement, many people still continued to purchase VHS. It wasn't until 2003, that DVD became more popular than VHS!

Not much of an upgrade? How about twice the resolution? Okay, if you don't have the system to handle it (I know I don't), SD-DVD is probably adequate. But for me, if I were to go HD, it would be more of an investment for the future.

Dave
08-21-2007, 07:21 PM
And I don't think it's naive to think Sony didn't need to pay off Fox or Disney. They developed BD+ specifically with Fox and Disney, they're all in this together. MGM is partly owned and Columbia / Tri-Star is entirely owned by Sony, they'll never be HD-DVD. As Fox has already shown if they had to choose between BD+ releases or no releases at all they'd choose the later. Simply put, either these studios release on BD or they don't release at all. Doesn't have anything to do with pay offs. HD-DVD simply has no way to win.

Not true. Ultimately I don't really care who wins. I tend to want blu-ray because of its ability to hold more data.

If HD_DVD were to become the norm (to replace DVD - years away), Sony and all others would release titles on it. I'm sure people once said Sony would never release on VHS either. Now, if HD disc remains at niche, then I agree, Sony may never release on it. But for an electronics company like Sony to not put out HD software while trying to sell HD TVs, well, that just wouldn't make sense. Sony may have the ability to continue releasing BR discs for years to come, though. They have complete say over Tri-Star and MGM, which is quite a vast library.

burieddeep
08-21-2007, 07:36 PM
Not much of an upgrade? How about twice the resolution? Okay, if you don't have the system to handle it (I know I don't), SD-DVD is probably adequate. But for me, if I were to go HD, it would be more of an investment for the future.

Forget about the resolution and all the technical jargon. All it does is confuse most people. Do a side by side comparison. Don't just take it for face value.

Compare a dvd (play it on an upconversion player w/HDMI) with an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disc. The differance is noticeable but it is not mind blowing.

It's certainly not enough of a difference for most people to spend hundreds of dollars.

burieddeep
08-21-2007, 07:53 PM
Now WAIT a minute.... on the one hand blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 3 to 1 largely on account of the PS3. But on the other hand, the PS3 sales are supposedly bombing in comparison to other game consoles. Hmmmm.... Sounds to me like neither of them are doing so hot.

I wasn't talking about how well the PS3 was selling. The 1.5 million plus PS3 units that have been sold in the country have definitely impacted the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray format war. How could it not? Especially when your talking about HD-DVD and BD sales that are in the thousands, not millions like DVD.

FYI - The PS3 has been selling very well since the price cut.

maybrick
08-21-2007, 08:02 PM
I wasn't talking about how well the PS3 was selling. The 1.5 million plus PS3 units that have been sold in the country have definitely impacted the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray format war. How could it not? Especially when your talking about HD-DVD and BD sales that are in the thousands, not millions like DVD.

FYI - The PS3 has been selling very well since the price cut.

I wasn't necessarily responding to your post specifically, otherwise I would've quoted it. But my point is that if the edge that blu-ray has over HD-DVD is solely due to the PS3, and the PS3 isn't very popular in relation to other gaming consoles, then the PS3 doesn't appear to me to be exactly the most stable leg for the format to be standing on, know what I mean?

chrishicks
08-21-2007, 08:08 PM
Forget about the resolution and all the technical jargon. All it does is confuse most people. Do a side by side comparison. Don't just take it for face value.

Compare a dvd (play it on an upconversion player w/HDMI) with an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disc. The differance is noticeable but it is not mind blowing.

It's certainly not enough of a difference for most people to spend hundreds of dollars.

as an owner of HD-DVD/BD/DVD let me just say that there is a big difference between real HD and upconverted SD. my XA1 is considered one of the best upconversion players built and I can still see a huge difference between HD and non HD. you can't just magically create extra resolution by upconverting.

Dave
08-21-2007, 08:45 PM
Forget about the resolution and all the technical jargon.

Ummm...no. :) Tech geek here. Don't give a rats ass about Joe 6-Pack, and I don't think he's going to decide the winner here. The techies and early adopters are going to decide who wins this HD war. And twice the resolution is twice the resolution. Of course you can't tell much with a side by side comparison on a small set. The same can be said for VHS and DVD (or LD, to level the field to widescreen releases) on my 19" bedroom TV.


All it does is confuse most people. Do a side by side comparison. Don't just take it for face value.

Compare a dvd (play it on an upconversion player w/HDMI) with an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disc. The differance is noticeable but it is not mind blowing.

It's certainly not enough of a difference for most people to spend hundreds of dollars.

Well, I can't say I have compared. But I've read enough reviews from reliable reviewers that claim HD blows SD-DVD out of the water. But, of course, the real comparisons have to be down on larger TVs or projectors. Increase the screen size and you'll see HD shine. Makes sense to me.

I've also seen enough HD movies on MonstersHD to know that I can tell a noticeable difference between some of the standard DVDs that I own, and I have a small HD set. That's not really a fair comparison as I have no idea on the sources for each.

Dave
08-21-2007, 08:45 PM
When my bills are paid off in early 2008, I may spring for HD playback ability, but I would probably get the Xbox 360 addon and a PS3; that way I have both.

X-human
08-21-2007, 08:50 PM
If HD_DVD were to become the norm (to replace DVD - years away), Sony and all others would release titles on it.

No, I seriously doubt it. Years from now? If HD-DVD finally won after 3 or more years, HD digital downloads with at least near HD disc level bit rates will be possible. Lucas has already said, I believe it was Comic Con '07, if the format war is not decided in a year's time Star Wars will go direct to digital downloads. The window for HD disc to establish itself enough to convince the industry that it would eventually earn peak market share is very small, less than two years. I agree with Lucas, if the format war's still "undecided" by Christmas 2008 I'll be buying an Apple TV.

The HD market share is less than 1% right now. Combined it just eclipsed VHS monthly sales in July. More people are buying new titles on VHS than either HD-DVD or Blu-ray stand alone. HD-DVD is Regionless with DRM already cracked. There's no incentive for Fox, Disney or Sony to use it. The market is far too small.

As for maybrick's theory that Paramount's abandoning a sinking ship, that's even crazier than Bill Hunt's theories. If Blu-ray's considered in trouble when it now has more disc and stand alone player sales (not counting PS3), then HD-DVD's situation in even more dire. If Paramount/Dreamworks was paid $150 million, that's more than probably the entire HD disc market earnings combined. Paramount probably figures HD discs in general is DOA, and just went for a cash grab that would only help kill HD disc even more. Self fulfilling prophecy.

broadwayrock
08-21-2007, 09:30 PM
No, I seriously doubt it. Years from now? If HD-DVD finally won after 3 or more years, HD digital downloads with at least near HD disc level bit rates will be possible.

Just because it will be possible does not mean downloads will be the standard for movie purchases let alone equaling physical format sales. If Music downloads today account for just 11% of music sales, then it will take until fibre optic becomes the worldwide broadband standard for HD digital downloads to be able to compete with the HD disc formats. Which will be a long time.

The market will probably become split, much like the video game market.

burieddeep
08-21-2007, 09:35 PM
Ummm...no. :) Tech geek here. Don't give a rats ass about Joe 6-Pack, and I don't think he's going to decide the winner here. The techies and early adopters are going to decide who wins this HD war. And twice the resolution is twice the resolution. Of course you can't tell much with a side by side comparison on a small set. The same can be said for VHS and DVD (or LD, to level the field to widescreen releases) on my 19" bedroom TV.


I've also seen enough HD movies on MonstersHD to know that I can tell a noticeable difference between some of the standard DVDs that I own, and I have a small HD set. That's not really a fair comparison as I have no idea on the sources for each.

Many households don't even have an HDTV, hence why the HD market share is less than 1%. It's going to be a niche market for a while. Most people (age 30 and up) could give two shits about whether a disc displays a resolution of 720X480 or 1920X1080. You techies make up a very small percenatge of the total market share.

I like MonstersHD but they keep showing the same shit over and over. "Alone in the Dark" has been shown a hundred times in the past couple of months among other films. Before each movie is shown, they say something like, "Remastered from the original 35mm negative in 1080i." That is total bullshit. Some of these movies are the SD-DVD (16X9 anamorphic enhanced versions) not true HD.

maybrick
08-21-2007, 10:28 PM
As for maybrick's theory that Paramount's abandoning a sinking ship, that's even crazier than Bill Hunt's theories. If Blu-ray's considered in trouble when it now has more disc and stand alone player sales (not counting PS3), then HD-DVD's situation in even more dire. If Paramount/Dreamworks was paid $150 million, that's more than probably the entire HD disc market earnings combined. Paramount probably figures HD discs in general is DOA, and just went for a cash grab that would only help kill HD disc even more. Self fulfilling prophecy.

It isn't a theory, it's merely speculation or a suspicion. A theory is an explanation. I don't have an explanation, I only have a suspicion that there may be an explanation other than what we're being told at the moment. It's entirely possible that Paramount has access to information that we don't. But regardless, big business MEANS selling out. What difference does it make in the end why Paramount did what they did? The deed is done. Blu-ray took a hit and you can't disagree with that. They don't call it a "format war" for nothing, you know. All sides play dirty in war and this is not an exception.

dwatts
08-21-2007, 10:59 PM
Gosh - so much to comment on here. :D

I don't believe the geeks will decide who wins the format wars. They certainly didn't in the VHS v. beta argument. In fact, it IS Joe six-pack who'll force the issue. Once he starts buying in droves the sales numbers swing wildly to one side, and one format will be off and running.

But then - the entire HD-DVD v. Blu-Ray issue isn't a fight about quality or capacity - it's a war about patents. Who owns the patents of the winning format. The "winning" patent holder will have an enormous financial asset on their hands, and that's what this is all about. People tend to forget the huge amount of money Phillips have made because they own CD patents - everyone has to pay them money if they're making CD products. it's these kind of endless payments - aside from software sales -that are being pursued.

Now - when the VHS thing was going on Sony didn't own even half of the media content they do today - so they didn't have the leverage to be truly influential in the content area. Now they are, so things are different.

People who say they can't tell the difference between SD and HD are just... well on a different planet from myself. I have seen hi-def, and SD doesn't match it. When people start saying "it's not a big enough jump", well, that's subjective. For some people that might be the case I suppose - but for me the jump is certainly great enough. And since I'm paying good money for my movies, why wouldn't I want the best quality most future proof version money can buy?

I'll tell you why - there's a format war on, and I'm not interested until they sort it out. I just read a review of a HD player that ranted and raved about how great it is - it's only flaw - it can't be made region free. WTF? NO INTERESTED.

Anyway..... :D

X-human
08-22-2007, 12:13 AM
Believe it or not, I agree with all the above. That's why I now have serious doubts if HD discs are viable any longer. Sony had a good thing going, was it perfect, no, but it was the best option going forward. I'm still going to buy the Blu-ray titles I want, but I'll no longer see it as my future source of HD (but neither will HD-DVD). We'll have to see how September goes for ole Blue.

Here's some interesting info about the Paramount/Dreamworks move:
1) It's for 18 months.
2) They were paid $150 million (Confirmed by Wallstreet Journal)
3) Doesn't include Spielberg movies or other select movies from the past decade, based mostly on revenue earnings.

The 18 months is an interesting time limit, as it secures the next Holiday seasons which many like Lucas have pointed to as the point of no return for the format war.

Here's also a fun info from someone in their marketing department:She also mentioned that today they are getting more complaint calls from talent, producers and executives then yesterday. She said it is a madhouse right now. She also mentioned they recieved thousands of emails from Paramount customers over the past 24 hours voicing their displeasure for this decision.I doubt any amount of bitching will change things now, but it shows at face value what a bone headed move this was. But again I can't blame Paramount, after all if someone offered me .01% of that to never buy Blu-ray again I'd gladly accept it.

burieddeep
08-22-2007, 12:16 AM
Does anyone know when companies other than Toshiba will start selling stand alone HD-DVD players? I know LG has a combo player but it's way too expensive.

I heard Samsung is also releasing a combo player in October but it's going to cost$1,000.

KR~!
08-22-2007, 12:44 AM
Does anyone know when companies other than Toshiba will start selling stand alone HD-DVD players? I know LG has a combo player but it's way too expensive.

I heard Samsung is also releasing a combo player in October but it's going to cost$1,000.

Read This:
http://www.switched.com/2007/07/25/samsung-launches-hd-dvd-blu-ray-combo-player/

The LG one sucks...

othervoice1
08-22-2007, 12:53 AM
She also mentioned that today they are getting more complaint calls from talent, producers and executives then yesterday. She said it is a madhouse right now. She also mentioned they recieved thousands of emails from Paramount customers over the past 24 hours voicing their displeasure for this decision.

There were reports of that on both sides for any studio going exclusive- no biggie- for now I am happy with my 360 add on hd-vd player cuz it was soo cheap and just stick with renting hd-dvds from netflix- thats a no loss situation if you own a xbox 360 and have an hd tv - cheapest way to enjoy hd movies right now till this thing goes somewhere- and as Ive said before I like Hd-Dvds interactive menus a lot- the region free is a bonus- the quality of video and audio is a wash no matter what either side nit picks about-i did think hd-dvd was done but with this paramount thing and the huge increase in hd-dvd add on player sales and the increasing speculation that hd-dvd will have a stand alone player at 200.00 by the holidays it is back up in the air

JW77
08-22-2007, 03:36 AM
Isn't it kind of dumb to put out combo players that cost more than buying both a HD-DVD player and a Blu-Ray player?

I mean, Jesus, can't you get a HD-DVD player for $250 and a Blu-Ray player for $500? Why not just save $250 and get two players instead of shelling out $1000 for a single player?

KR~!
08-22-2007, 03:41 AM
That $250 player doesn't have all the cool features of the higher end models of HD-DVD players any of the Blu-Ray models, there is a reason why it is so cheap. Read the fine print. The new combo player is a legit high end player for BOTH formats, unlike the LG one which is a high end Blu-Ray player that kind of plays HD-DVD.

othervoice1
08-22-2007, 04:22 AM
If you have a PS3 you got a blu ray player already and its a pretty good deal - If you have the 360 the add on player is really cheap and a great deal - if you have no gaming system you might as well just wait it out

X-human
08-22-2007, 09:19 PM
You just gotta love this, pitch perfect doublethink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink) from Paramount's CTO Alan Bell:PCW: Will this exclusive period extend for a limited time, or is this an indefinite arrangement?

Bell: At this moment in time, it's an indefinite commitment. The core of this announcement comes from our experience, and what our consumers are looking for. We hope this will influence consumers' choices.http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136253/article.html

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Hollywood executives and producers have no idea what the words coming out of their mouths really mean. They just know that they sound good.

You can't have an "indefinite commitment," that's a contradiction of terms. You also can't think this is "what our consumers are looking for" and at the same time "hope this will influence consumers' choices." If it's already what they're looking for then you don't need to influence their choice.

maybrick
08-22-2007, 09:51 PM
You can't have an "indefinite commitment," that's a contradiction of terms. No it isn't and sure you can. When you love someone, that's one example of an "indefinite commitment".

X-human
08-22-2007, 10:27 PM
No it isn't and sure you can. When you love someone, that's one example of an "indefinite commitment".

Yeah... That's why divorce rate is up to half. ;) I'm referring to the meaning of "indefinite" in the sense that it means "undetermined" but also means "unlimited," it's a perfect doublethink world. Their "commitment" could end tomorrow, "indefinite" allows that to happen. That's not much of a commitment.

KR~!
08-23-2007, 12:55 AM
No it isn't and sure you can. When you love someone, that's one example of an "indefinite commitment".

:lol:

Main Entry: in·def·i·nite
: not definite: as in...
a : typically designating an unidentified, generic, or unfamiliar person or thing
b : not precise
c : having no exact limits

Dave
08-23-2007, 01:19 AM
Anyone going to stock up on Paramount blu-ray discs to unload on ebay down the road? They've confirmed that once existing inventories are depleted, current Paramount blu-ray titles will be OOP.

I thought about it, but with the titles ALSO available on HD-DVD, I'm not sure how much of a premium they will command. With HD-DVD players rumored to be hitting $200 this holiday, it's just as easy to get multiple players.

maybrick
08-23-2007, 01:22 AM
Yep, love isn't precise and there are no "exact" limits to it, either. Love can fade away slowly or immediately or never at all. It doesn't end at any sort of preconceived timetable, even with "Until Death do you part".

othervoice1
08-23-2007, 01:37 AM
Paramount will stay with HD DVD unless a)blu ray gives them a huge amount of money later on or b) hd-dvd is all but dead - expect several more big announcements to come in the future from both sides- at least i think they will continue to force each other to drop prices sooner rather than later and the option to rent any movie from either format is available through netflix - and if your a freak for a movie blu ray has and have hd dvd you can always pay a premium to get an import of the movie since most are released on hd dvd overseas and hd dvd players are region free

KR~!
08-23-2007, 02:24 AM
Pioneer BDC-2202 Blu-Ray Combo Drive

Pioneer's new BDC-2202 Blu-ray Disc (BD) combo drive has been officially released in the U.S. today, bundled with software by Corel.

Priced at $299.99, Pioneer's BDC-2202 drive offers a compelling solution for consumers who want to use their PC to view the growing number of high-definition Hollywood movies that are being released on BD. It can read Blu-ray at 5x, Blu-ray dual layer at 2x and reads and writes to DVDs and CDs as well. The drive is also available in the European market as BDC-S02.

The bundled software includes special editions of Corel's WinDVD(R) 8, Ulead(R) VideoStudio(R) 11 and Ulead(R) Burn.Now(R)1.5.

Pioneer's BDC-2202 combo drive is available in the Americas now through Pioneer's resellers and online at www.pioneerelectronics.com.

chrishicks
08-23-2007, 03:22 AM
give me a portable BD drive and I'd be set for complete portable HD(my laptop already has HD-DVD).

X-human
08-23-2007, 03:43 AM
I thought about it, but with the titles ALSO available on HD-DVD, I'm not sure how much of a premium they will command. With HD-DVD players rumored to be hitting $200 this holiday, it's just as easy to get multiple players.

A lot of hard core BD fans are boycotting Paramount entirely, so even in the fringes of BD I'm not sure many would spend much money on Paramount BD discs. I figure you could make a few bucks off it, if it'd be worth the trouble is another question.

There were three BD discs I've wanted but hadn't bought yet from Paramount so I've ordered those. I contemplated buying some extras as well, but I figured it wasn't a very wise investment.

I think the doom and gloom cloud has passed in my mind, but it has made it obvious that there's a lot more fight left in Microsoft than I wanted to admit. HD-DVD's going to have to be defeated unconditionally, which I think is possible.

KR~!
08-23-2007, 03:45 AM
give me a portable BD drive and I'd be set for complete portable HD(my laptop already has HD-DVD).

There are already a few laptops that come with BR drives.

Amazon sells the PC drive for $269.73
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-BDC-2202B5PK-Blu-ray-Combo-Drive/dp/B000S9V44Y/ref=sr_1_4/104-6407383-9236726?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1187833232&sr=1-4

chrishicks
08-23-2007, 06:02 AM
yeah, but i don't want to carry around 2 laptops. I was thinking something more in line with a usb/firewire external type setup.

marcx
08-23-2007, 05:27 PM
I am so glad that I now have an hddvd and a blu ray player for my hoe theater and no longer need to worry about which company is doing which format--

for the record I think HDDVD is the better solution but this studio exclusivity stuff was bumming me out...

Ash28M
08-23-2007, 07:40 PM
I am so glad that I now have an hddvd and a blu ray player for my hoe theater and no longer need to worry about which company is doing which format--

for the record I think HDDVD is the better solution but this studio exclusivity stuff was bumming me out...

What happens when one of them "wins" and you have a bunch of Blu-Ray or HD DVD Movies you invested in, then your player breaks down and can't get another in stores because they stop making them. Are you going to start shopping on ebay for old Blu-Ray or HD DVD players?

We better hope the winning side makes it standard for their players to play both formats.

marcx
08-23-2007, 10:59 PM
ash28m--there are too many more important things to worry about--for now i am having fun knowing between my 2 hd player and aregion free dvd player I am good to go.....

By the way I would be glad to see hddvd win tommorrow and everyone start publishing in htat format--but it is not going to happen.....

chrishicks
08-23-2007, 11:23 PM
What happens when one of them "wins" and you have a bunch of Blu-Ray or HD DVD Movies you invested in, then your player breaks down and can't get another in stores because they stop making them. Are you going to start shopping on ebay for old Blu-Ray or HD DVD players?

We better hope the winning side makes it standard for their players to play both formats.


I just look at it as the same as LD/VHS. either buy a used player if thats the only thing avail. or just repurchase on another format.

othervoice1
08-23-2007, 11:52 PM
Here is mainly what I have been hearing in regards to a 200.00 stand alone hd- dvd player this holiday season (taken from another site):

Wal-Mart contacted a Chinese company about producing low-cost HD players for them, but they did not want the negotiations publicized. The Chinese company publicized them anyway, causing Wal-Mart to ask the Chinese to retract their press statement, which they did. And that's where we stand, with everything else being speculation and rumor. However, I have no doubt that negotiations, and probably manufacture, of low-cost players are going on as we speak. Everything moves on. We'll know more this Christmas season.

Livingdead102
08-24-2007, 02:49 AM
Stupid question--

It has been said that HD-DVD is region free. Does that mean that an HD-DVD player will also play standard DVDs from any region, or just that HD-DVDs are region free?

KR~!
08-24-2007, 03:13 AM
Only the HD-DVDs are Region Free.. for now anyway.

rp108
08-24-2007, 04:12 AM
A lot of hard core BD fans are boycotting Paramount entirely, so even in the fringes of BD I'm not sure many would spend much money on Paramount BD discs. I figure you could make a few bucks off it, if it'd be worth the trouble is another question.

There were three BD discs I've wanted but hadn't bought yet from Paramount so I've ordered those. I contemplated buying some extras as well, but I figured it wasn't a very wise investment.

I think the doom and gloom cloud has passed in my mind, but it has made it obvious that there's a lot more fight left in Microsoft than I wanted to admit. HD-DVD's going to have to be defeated unconditionally, which I think is possible.

It real hard to boycott something when you can't buy it.

X-human
08-24-2007, 04:34 AM
It real hard to boycott something when you can't buy it.

They're talking about SD-DVDs, they won't even buy Paramount/Dreamworks SD-DVDs anymore. They also won't buy the lingering BD discs I'm sure. Rather foolish if you ask me, but come to think of it I can't think of a Paramount disc I've bought all year. You could say I'm boycotting them too until they release something worth buying like THE AFRICAN QUEEN YOU FUCKERS!!!! WTF?!?!?!?! WHERE'S MY AFRICAN QUEEN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

othervoice1
08-24-2007, 04:35 AM
It real hard to boycott something when you can't buy it.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

chrishicks
08-24-2007, 04:37 AM
why are some of the Blu-Ray folks so psychotic? will the world ever know?

dwatts
08-24-2007, 08:26 AM
They're talking about SD-DVDs, they won't even buy Paramount/Dreamworks SD-DVDs anymore. They also won't buy the lingering BD discs I'm sure. Rather foolish if you ask me, but come to think of it I can't think of a Paramount disc I've bought all year. You could say I'm boycotting them too until they release something worth buying like THE AFRICAN QUEEN YOU FUCKERS!!!! WTF?!?!?!?! WHERE'S MY AFRICAN QUEEN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's hiding in R2. :)

KR~!
08-24-2007, 01:02 PM
It's hiding in R2. :)

http://www.amazon.com/African-Queen-Region-2/dp/B00005AGGR/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6407383-9236726?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1187953300&sr=1-1

where he can't get it.

rp108
08-24-2007, 05:06 PM
They're talking about SD-DVDs, they won't even buy Paramount/Dreamworks SD-DVDs anymore. They also won't buy the lingering BD discs I'm sure. Rather foolish if you ask me, but come to think of it I can't think of a Paramount disc I've bought all year. You could say I'm boycotting them too until they release something worth buying like THE AFRICAN QUEEN YOU FUCKERS!!!! WTF?!?!?!?! WHERE'S MY AFRICAN QUEEN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really don't understand the logic. Because Paramount dropped Blu-ray they are boycotting movies, movies that they obviously want to watch since they are throwing fits on every high def forum I go to. I support HD DVD but I am not boycotting Starz/Anchor Bay because they decided to release on Blu-ray first. I really hope BR loses more studios so I can watch complete meltdowns from the Blu-boys. That will be really fun to hear them say..."I am boycotting Hollywood! I will never watch movies again!"

Think I am kidding? Go to blu-ray.com and see for yourself.

X-human
08-24-2007, 06:01 PM
Well to be fair HD-DVD fanboys aren't any better. Many are boycotting Blockbuster entirely, even though the online service includes HD-DVDs. The vast majority of them are rampant Sony haters, refusing to buy anything Sony. While I don't think many BD zealots have all that much against Toshiba, at least I don't hear much against the company itself.

It's just a really dumb situation any way you look at it. As for the African Queen import, those aren't exactly BFI releases you're linking me too, and for close to $30 I'd expect some Criterion level masterings. I know there's cheaper ones out there, I import something every other week, but that doesn't excuse Paramount for not releasing it R1.

rp108
08-24-2007, 06:46 PM
From what I have been seeing its like this.

Blu-ray supporters hate Microsoft
HD DVD supporters hate Sony

Owning two Sony tvs I guess I don't hate them but I do dislike the constant quest of creating new formats when not needed.

chrishicks
08-24-2007, 07:23 PM
From what I have been seeing its like this.

Blu-ray supporters hate Microsoft
HD DVD supporters hate Sony




I support both. does this mean I hate both?


;)

KR~!
08-25-2007, 01:26 AM
I support both. does this mean I hate both?


;)

Nah, it means you are Bi-Polar ;)

Workshed
09-20-2007, 03:45 PM
Saw this brief article (http://dvd.ign.com/articles/821/821093p1.html) on IGN this morning. The war will continue, I guess, into the foreseeable future.

New Report Offers No High-Def Hope
Predicts a dual-format market for the future.
by IGN DVD

September 19, 2007 - For those of you trapped amidst the endless barrage of artillery in the format war, a new study from Screen Digest shows that you may want to pick a side or find some cover. According to the publication, a viable market exists to sustain a two-format system into and possibly beyond this decade. With an installed consumer base steadily growing on either side, studios opting to support only one format could reportedly lose out on as much as $270 million in revenue.

The study states that despite Blu-ray's overall lead, those studios supporting only that format are turning their back on a possible $175 million HD DVD market. The report suggests that Paramount's recent decision to support HD DVD exclusively gave new life to the format and subsequently (and perhaps ironically) strengthens the argument that the position of dual-format support may be reevaluated by single-format studios in the coming year.

Screen Digest video analyst Richard Cooper concludes, "Christmas 2007 is going to be critical for the hi-def video business…but with so much at stake on both sides we think it is highly unlikely that one format will emerge as the 'winner.' Once it becomes clear that both formats are gaining customer acceptance, studios that have chosen to support one format over the other will realize that they are missing out on potential sales and will have to decide how long they can afford to place principle over profit. We believe that eventually most will decide to offer their titles on both HD DVD and Blu-ray in order to maximize their returns."

The next few months should prove if this theory is true, so stay tuned to IGN DVD for more as it develops.

dwatts
09-20-2007, 03:50 PM
I don't know, it's got niche written all over it really, doesn't it. I guess - if this is to believed - we can expect the dual format player to make all this irrelevant.

X-human
09-20-2007, 05:43 PM
I don't know, it's got niche written all over it really, doesn't it. I guess - if this is to believed - we can expect the dual format player to make all this irrelevant.

Niche is written about as big has the Hollywood sign right now, though I disagree dual format is the answer.

The study seems to ignore the fact that combined HD disc make up less than 1% of the DVD market. They just passed weekly sales of VHS this summer. Look how much shelf space retailers dedicate to VHS. Now think how much space HD discs are realistically going to be able to hold on to. Retailers are not going to stock more than 1% of their DVD shelf space for that. If you are a retailer how long are you going to carry:

300 (Full Screen)
300 (Widescreen)
300: Special Edition
300 Blu-ray
300 HD-DVD

DVD sales have flat lined. Retailers aren't happy about that. There's too much at stake to keep this format war going. They're looking to boost those sales, and if HD discs can't prove by this Christmas that they can then they'll probably be dropped like D-VHS. To hell with looking a beta as a historic example, just look HD's last attempt with D-VHS to see how impossible this market is.

Studios aren't going to ignore $175 million market? When comparing it to a multi-billion dollar market of course they can. If retailers say they want one format, they'll get one format. It's looking like Wal-mart's already leaning that way. Hell $175 million probably won't even cover the CEO's next mansion. They've been ignoring the home theater market for decades. They'll just figure buyers will shift to the other format onces theirs dies. If HD-DVD died tomorrow, does anyone think the studios would really suddenly shed a tear about .3% of the market?

JW77
09-21-2007, 02:34 AM
If DVD sales have flattened out, I don't see HD formats turning anything around for any sustained period of time.

I see DVD sales declining because

1) The "fad" is over for a great many of people and they just aren't buying as much as they did a few years ago when sales were at the peak. These things do take up a lot of room in the home, so it shouldn't be surprising that folks are being more selective with their purchases.

2) Prices on DVD drop so quickly that it's pretty stupid to buy anything when its originally released when it costs $15-$20 only to have the price drop to well below $10 a few months later.

dwatts
09-21-2007, 08:44 AM
You forgot online rental schemes that basically are a pirates wet dream. That's having a large effect too. ;)

--Niche is written about as big has the Hollywood sign right now--

Yet, as you state, sales make up 1% of the market. Isn't that niche? I know the intention is for big things, but at the moment they're forcing this whole idea the way of Beta.

By the way - HD discs sell for somewhere between $35 to $50 each over here. I'm not in a rush to move to a format that's costing so much per movie....

SaviniFan
09-21-2007, 03:06 PM
I have owned an HDTV for the better part of about 6 months now and I still have no desire to move to either format. Upconverting DVDs looks great to me and will do just fine until this mess is sorted out.

Fistfuck
09-21-2007, 03:47 PM
I can't believe that corporations haven't figured out that technology that catches on skips a generation.

CDs were the big thing, then minidiscs were ignored, now MP3 is the dominant, or soon-to-be dominant format.

Photographic video discs and beta were passed over for VHS, laserdisc was passed over, DVD caught on, same is going to happen with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

A corporation is better of investing as little money into a subsequent format, just to play the game, and go all out for the format following that one.

Shannafey
09-21-2007, 04:04 PM
If DVD sales have flattened out, I don't see HD formats turning anything around for any sustained period of time.

I see DVD sales declining because

1) The "fad" is over for a great many of people and they just aren't buying as much as they did a few years ago when sales were at the peak. These things do take up a lot of room in the home, so it shouldn't be surprising that folks are being more selective with their purchases.

2) Prices on DVD drop so quickly that it's pretty stupid to buy anything when its originally released when it costs $15-$20 only to have the price drop to well below $10 a few months later.

I totally agree, JW!! That's about how I feel now!!

You forgot online rental schemes that basically are a pirates wet dream. That's having a large effect too. ;)

Yeah, I was thinking about switching to renting from an online service to stifle my buying, but then I found out how many DVDs my local library had and that's where I go to get something to watch now!! I still have to buy the hard to get cult and horror stuff though!!

X-human
09-21-2007, 07:49 PM
Yet, as you state, sales make up 1% of the market. Isn't that niche? I know the intention is for big things, but at the moment they're forcing this whole idea the way of Beta.

Yeah... That's why I said "niche" was written as big as the Hollywood sign on this format right now. :eek2:

It's been reported by I believe Video Business that there are major studio HD discs that have only sold in the hundreds. To compare Onar Films is selling classic Turkish cinema on PAL DVDs in runs of just over a thousand. That's about as niche as it gets.

300 is the first HD disc to sell 100,000 units when you combine the two formats. There's probably more people in your home town than those that own 300 on HD-DVD in the whole world.

That's why it's bizarre to read reports from Toshiba, Microsoft and even Universal that's there's room for both formats in this market. When you're selling less than 1,000 HD discs of a single title in a year... Does it make sense for Best Buy to make room on their shelves for one in a blue case and one in a red case? That's selling less than one title per Best Buy store nation wide, not even taking into consideration the rest of retail outlets. Clearly the requirement of one format alone is questionable, none the less needing two (or even more).

By the way - HD discs sell for somewhere between $35 to $50 each over here. I'm not in a rush to move to a format that's costing so much per movie....

I buy mine for $17.95 back catalog and $20.XX for new releases, that's because I order from Amazon and have a 10% discount on all HD discs. I'm not advocating spending much more than that. Prices are dropping to $15 and less on year old discs from Amazon.

Photographic video discs and beta were passed over for VHS, laserdisc was passed over, DVD caught on, same is going to happen with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

There already was D-VHS, a failed HD format a few years ago. This IS the second generation. :P

I think Blu-ray can survive much like LD survived during VHS. HD in and of itself is clearly the future, bigger and better things. HD discs is something that's only needed between now and when VOD becomes the new standard.

geeare
09-21-2007, 08:03 PM
got me a blu-ray player in my new PS3. I didn't pick to go Blu-ray, it was just there so I am now a Blu-Ray man, haha.....GOOOOOOOOOO BLU-RAY!

_pi_
10-11-2007, 03:23 AM
This thread is simply amazing. 5 pages long and hardly any deviations from the topic or silly arguments. Plus, I feel I've learned a lot. Like to wait for a few months/years to see how the "war" will end.

I really, REALLY want to buy a big ass HD-TV and of course I want to show it off with some cool looking HD titles, but no way am I going to buy two different players or just one and miss out on a lot of titles I love.

I won't be able to buy one, anyway, until May 2008, so it'll be interesting to see how things progress. Or digress :)

Nemesis
10-11-2007, 05:12 AM
yeah i agree.. problem is that i bought a big ass HD-TV and have nothing to show it off on... but i also refuse to buy multiple different players.. and there is 0 chance that anchorbay will release their shit in australia so that wipes out a huge chunk of my favourite genre.. i refuse to commit to anything until a region free blu-ray player is released

Ash28M
10-30-2007, 02:59 PM
Just a note For those who say space isn't a factor when it comes to HD-DVD. The Clock Work Orange HD DVD has the film spanned over 2 disks were Blu-Ray has it on on a Single disk. Looks like It's already becoming a factor.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews33/_clockwork_orange_HD_Blu-ray.htm

Myron Breck
10-30-2007, 03:53 PM
Thanks for the link, Ash. What struck me most was the comment that, "What purchasers should be aware of is that this will NOT scale the heights of high-definition DVD image quality. The film is over 35 years old and I just want to convey that it may be best not to escalate your expectations in comparison to modern film-to-hi-def-DVD quality. Because it is not."

Personally, I have little use for "modern" movies being hi-def. I'd buy the LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy without a pause but there really arent' a lot of newer bang-bang shoot-em-up types of movies I enjoy...I prefer older films, the ones that get remade. :p So, basically, do I even need to buy this next-gen bullshit? It seems like a bigger waste of money to me now that I know that older films won't really be much improved by the technology. And besides, I've always liked a bit of grain and noise on my older films. I dunno. Anyone else feel my pain?

Ash28M
10-30-2007, 04:04 PM
Personally, I have little use for "modern" movies being hi-def. I'd buy the LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy without a pause but there really arent' a lot of newer bang-bang shoot-em-up types of movies I enjoy...I prefer older films, the ones that get remade. :p So, basically, do I even need to buy this next-gen bullshit? It seems like a bigger waste of money to me now that I know that older films won't really be much improved by the technology. ?

I don't know about that. I've read films like the Searchers (1956), 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) , The Shining (1980), Viva Las Vegas (1964) just to name a few look like there were made yesterday. It all depends on how well preserved the film was.


http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews32/the_searchers_blu-ray.htm
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews33/2001_HD_Blu-ray.htm
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/325/shining1980.html
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews33/viva_las_vegas_blu-ray.htm

Livingdead102
10-31-2007, 08:40 AM
To be honest, if the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray version of "A Clockwork Orange" are the same price, I really don't care if it's on one disk or two. I don't speak for everyone, but personally I rarely watch the extras at the same time I watch the movie for any given release, so having to get up to change the disc after the movie is over isn't much of a problem for me. Then again, I am a) extremely cheap, and b) not in the hd game anyway, so take my opinion for what it's worth--not much.

Vlachio
10-31-2007, 08:47 AM
I wish somebody would start releasing more slasher films. I don't really care for modern movies on this format. Gimmie those Friday The 13th films UNCUT and remasterd in HD!!!!! Hell gimmie some Fulci & Argento on this format already! Those are just my thoughts!

dwatts
10-31-2007, 08:55 AM
I don't really care for modern movies on this format.

Strange, because I primarily want it for new movies. I have many of the older films on DVD already, and it's not like DVD suddenly started to look bad. So I'm more interested in new things...

Vlachio
10-31-2007, 09:07 AM
Strange, because I primarily want it for new movies. I have many of the older films on DVD already, and it's not like DVD suddenly started to look bad. So I'm more interested in new things...
I can agree with that. The only downfall with the HD format though is when the modern films look grainy. Or you see compression artifacts during a new film with blurry transfer. I could have sworn I read something somewhere about allot of modern films looking almost the same as the DVD counterpart. I guess it all depends on how well the film transfer is present on the HD disc. I would have liked to see HD DVD win. Mostly due to the fact they are region free. I've started noticing retail stores with larger BLU-Ray sections now. It's still somewhat early to tell who the winner is. Though to me It ain't looking good for HD. When they retail section only offers 30 movies verses 80++ for BLU-Ray.

dwatts
10-31-2007, 09:21 AM
New films shouldn't look grainy. But here is something to keep in mind. I'm going to be a bit vague, because I don't recall the cinematographers name at the moment (it's 6:30am here, and I'm just waking up!)

Anyway - I read an article recently and a cinematographer was talking about a review he'd read of one of his films on HD. The review complained of poor quality and "Grain". He'd looked at it and said something like this: "When I saw the movie, you could see the grain inherent in the film stock. I thought to myself, what more do people want? If you can see the grain, you're as close to the fil stock s you can go, but the reviewer thought it was a flaw."

I really must remember to bookmark things like that when I read them.

Anyway - HD will have good and bad transfers, just like HD. It's not a format issue, imo. It's just how well a transfer is done. They'll never overcome limitations of the source though.

Katatonia
10-31-2007, 09:37 AM
To be honest, if the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray version of "A Clockwork Orange" are the same price, I really don't care if it's on one disk or two. I don't speak for everyone, but personally I rarely watch the extras at the same time I watch the movie for any given release, so having to get up to change the disc after the movie is over isn't much of a problem for me. Then again, I am a) extremely cheap, and b) not in the hd game anyway, so take my opinion for what it's worth--not much.

Gotta agree, I could care less if the extras are on the same disc or a seperate disc. It's not a big deal at all if you own a disc-changer player. The new Clockwork Orange 2-disc DVD is good enough for me until they re-re-release it again, which you know will inevitably happen. :evil:

Livingdead102
10-31-2007, 09:54 AM
I wish somebody would start releasing more slasher films. I don't really care for modern movies on this format. Gimmie those Friday The 13th films UNCUT and remasterd in HD!!!!! Hell gimmie some Fulci & Argento on this format already! Those are just my thoughts!

I don't know about that... I remember hearing about how hd was causing problems for newscasters because their wrinkles and makeup were pretty clearly visible in high definition. I don't think I want to watch Friday the 13th and clearly see where Kevin Bacon's skin ends and the latex begins.

JW77
10-31-2007, 12:36 PM
New frilms shouldn't look grainy.

You can see grain in theaters. It's just the nature of the beast.

KR~!
10-31-2007, 12:57 PM
Keep a look out for Black Friday sales and heavily discounted high def players.

dwatts
10-31-2007, 12:59 PM
You know, that was a rather odd sentence given what I followed it with (acknowledging grain is an integral part of cinema). Odd. :D

Ash28M
10-31-2007, 02:38 PM
I don't think I want to watch Friday the 13th and clearly see where Kevin Bacon's skin ends and the latex begins.

Film is better then HD so If you didn't see it in theatres your not going to see it in HD.

dwatts
10-31-2007, 05:48 PM
You might.

In digital, and up close, you can sometimes see things you wouldn't see at the theatre. Film has the win in resolution - but in this sense it's not necessarily "clearer" (for want of a better word).

I actually had this conversation with someone lately regarding projectors. I was asked: "Is everything crystal clear?" To which I replied, "Is everything crystal clear at the cinema?" Answer: No. Cinemas looks like.... well, film. Friday never looked as clear (struggling for the word here) as say - Shrek or other CGI cartoons that look very precise. Yet that was the expectation.

I recently saw Crash (Cronenberg) at a cinema, and the picture was nowhere near as clear as the DVD. You'd see far more detail in the digital version. Generations of print copies, old scratched frames, aging etc. It all takes a tone. New pristine film V. DVD and cinema might win - but at this point with a Friday print, DVD would be better.

Mind you, I saw Friday during those initial runs - and while it was a long time ago, I don't recall it being stunning to look at.

Ash28M
10-31-2007, 06:05 PM
You might.

I recently saw Crash (Cronenberg) at a cinema, and the picture was nowhere near as clear as the DVD. You'd see far more detail in the digital version. Generations of print copies, old scratched frames, aging etc. It all takes a tone. New pristine film V. DVD and cinema might win - but at this point with a Friday print, DVD would be better.


That's only because it's been blown up 50 feet across. Try blowing up a DVD that large, It would look like chop suey. Same goes if you were to project the film you watched of crash to the size that you saw it at home. It would look much better then your DVD.

dwatts
10-31-2007, 06:16 PM
But people don't blow up DVD's to 50 feet across, so they would see these things. Mind you, I'd sure like to try blowing a DVD up to that size. :D Hi-def might work. ;)

With all the scratches, damaged frames, and wonky sound (yeah I know) I doubt the print I saw would be any better to be honest.

Still, we're not comparing the merits of the resolution or the effects of enlarging or shrinking it. I'm just making the point that a hi-def DVD, on the sorts of size screens people buy today (40-50 inches) might well reveal more detail than at the theater. Might.

othervoice1
10-31-2007, 09:09 PM
Well while my personal preference is HD DVD still I did get a refurbished PS3 for fairly cheap on ebay today- going to give it to my son for christmas-kind of a big surprise gift for him (we already have and will primarily use the xbox 360 elite) and kind of a gift for me since I will be able to play Tekken 6 when it comes out and I can now rent any HD-DVD or Blu Ray from NetFlix I want- And wont be buying movies for either until somebody breaks free in this rat race

X-human
10-31-2007, 09:13 PM
Well film replication isn't an exact process, Robert Harris addressed that specifically when he talked about Coppola's Dracula in HD. The film prints that go to theaters can vary in quality. In theory if you were to watch a print that had been carefully processed from the original materials you'll get the best possible result (better than HD [though probably not 4k HD]). So the upperhand that the digital medium has is that it is easier to replicate the presentation.

There's just no comparison between HD and say IMAX which is better than even 70mm. 'Course ultimately it just depends how it was shot.

I just think there's a learning curve with HD that people are going to have to go through for awhile. Even new films like Batman Begins and The Prestige get a lot of flack because they used softer focus. Personally I love grain, I like to drown in it. It's the flavor of film.

Ash J. Williams
11-01-2007, 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by Vlachio

I wish somebody would start releasing more slasher films. I don't really care for modern movies on this format. Gimmie those Friday The 13th films UNCUT and remasterd in HD!!!!!

I swear, I can't stand this argument anymore. I honestly thought I'd heard the last of it, and it infuriates me that it's still being brought up.

I'll be honest; I know that not all of the cut footage from the 8 Friday movies was put on the gore reel on the box set. Some movies weren't even represented, and I'm aware of this.

But, if you look at the image quality of the films on that release versus the quality of the footage in the gore reel, the reason the films weren't released "Uncut," is blatantly obvious. The films look the best they ever have, and the cut scenes, comparatively, look almost unwatchable in spots, especially the heavily-cut Part VII footage. While it's a damned shame that the MPAA saw fit to view something like 17 edits of the film before it was finally released with nary a drop of blood left, it would look horrible if they tried to integrate inferior-quality, second-long snippits of footage into quickly-cut action scenes. The lack of blood in this film, as well as some of the others, hurts it immensely, but adding in the cut gore, even if they tried to re-master it, would do little more than distract the viewer, when the intention was to appease the cries of thousands of idealistic fanboys who don't understand how obnoxious a red-tinted, grainy shot inserted into generally crisp footage would look.

I'm not trying to be pissy, but if you expect Paramount to re-release the Friday series, uncut and in HD, and have the picture quality look anything close to stable and consistent in the killing sequences, then you will be severely disappointed if they ever do release a box set. I'm absolutely serious. This isn't like the Wicker Man extended cut, where whole new scenes are added that, while distracting visually, greatly expand the film. This is a matter of inserting dramatically worn footage in 2-second intervals in-between highly remastered base material. Don't give me the "They remastered the movies, why couldn't they re-master the gore huh!?!" shit, either; the prints Paramount had of the films themselves, I would bet my very knowledge of cinema on, didn't look nearly as awful as 'most' of the cut footage from the series does today.

So anyone who still can't believe Paramount BETRAYED US by not putting another minute of footage back into each film should ask themselves if the films would be more or less enjoyable with the scenes back in. Cause the answer, for me, is "Far less." Films should be seamless, and anything that distracts more or takes me out of it for even a second shouldn't be inserted or reinserted into a film, since most of the stuff you guys have been bitching about since the birth of DVD lasts just that long - one second, give or take a few frames.

Grim
11-01-2007, 07:30 AM
Originally Posted by Vlachio

I wish somebody would start releasing more slasher films. I don't really care for modern movies on this format. Gimmie those Friday The 13th films UNCUT and remasterd in HD!!!!!

I swear, I can't stand this argument anymore. I honestly thought I'd heard the last of it, and it infuriates me that it's still being brought up.

I'll be honest; I know that not all of the cut footage from the 8 Friday movies was put on the gore reel on the box set. Some movies weren't even represented, and I'm aware of this.

But, if you look at the image quality of the films on that release versus the quality of the footage in the gore reel, the reason the films weren't released "Uncut," is blatantly obvious. The films look the best they ever have, and the cut scenes, comparatively, look almost unwatchable in spots, especially the heavily-cut Part VII footage. While it's a damned shame that the MPAA saw fit to view something like 17 edits of the film before it was finally released with nary a drop of blood left, it would look horrible if they tried to integrate inferior-quality, second-long snippits of footage into quickly-cut action scenes. The lack of blood in this film, as well as some of the others, hurts it immensely, but adding in the cut gore, even if they tried to re-master it, would do little more than distract the viewer, when the intention was to appease the cries of thousands of idealistic fanboys who don't understand how obnoxious a red-tinted, grainy shot inserted into generally crisp footage would look.

I'm not trying to be pissy, but if you expect Paramount to re-release the Friday series, uncut and in HD, and have the picture quality look anything close to stable and consistent in the killing sequences, then you will be severely disappointed if they ever do release a box set. I'm absolutely serious. This isn't like the Wicker Man extended cut, where whole new scenes are added that, while distracting visually, greatly expand the film. This is a matter of inserting dramatically worn footage in 2-second intervals in-between highly remastered base material. Don't give me the "They remastered the movies, why couldn't they re-master the gore huh!?!" shit, either; the prints Paramount had of the films themselves, I would bet my very knowledge of cinema on, didn't look nearly as awful as 'most' of the cut footage from the series does today.

So anyone who still can't believe Paramount BETRAYED US by not putting another minute of footage back into each film should ask themselves if the films would be more or less enjoyable with the scenes back in. Cause the answer, for me, is "Far less." Films should be seamless, and anything that distracts more or takes me out of it for even a second shouldn't be inserted or reinserted into a film, since most of the stuff you guys have been bitching about since the birth of DVD lasts just that long - one second, give or take a few frames.

I agree that most of the deleted gore footage was shit, but you could blatantly see on the DVD that the gore for 1 and 6 were of the same quality as the films. Hell, I have the first one uncut on DVD. I kind of saw showing us the deleted footage of those two in such good quality as a bit of a tease. I assume most of of the original negatives for most of that stuff is long gone, but maybe some of it is hidden in the piles and piles of film in Paramount's vaults.

dwatts
11-01-2007, 09:26 AM
Well - when the R2 release of Witchfinder Genral came out it included inferior inserts of additional scenes. There was quite a furore over being able to see it uncut, even with the dip in quality.

But then they decide to do an R1, and guess what.... they found a pristine copy with the inserts - so no more dip in quality. It's like magic!

Not saying that's the case with Friday, but people can hope. Hell, it's no different from the endless threads on cuts to Hammer movies etc.

Stige
11-01-2007, 09:42 AM
the missing scenes from , From BEyond were found and inserted and fixed up, so it can be done. Probably not going to buy either BR or HD DVD for a long time though so guess it doesn't matter for me . Probably in the future but only if one format prevails and STAY instead of newer better formats around the corner always lurking.

The DVD sales dropping off thing :

Most people I know who buy movies, and especially horror, went into a frenzy when all the Italian stuff and other movies were suddenly thrown at us left and right in pristine ( ok maybe not pristine but VERY watchable) quality, new movies every day. There comes a certain point, when a collection reaches a certain size, when you have most of the stuff you dreamed of. Less and less films are being released compared to the years where a new slasher was released on a daily basis. The drop off in sales might be because people only buy the new stuff coming out now?

Crystal Plumage
01-05-2008, 04:17 PM
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=66677

Fistfuck
01-05-2008, 04:33 PM
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=66677

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Beta, Laserdisc, MiniDisc, meet your new cousins.

Vlachio
01-05-2008, 07:47 PM
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=66677


I tend to more in favor of blu ray now sense most films I want are on it. Once I see HD DVD vanish from the rack I'll be convinced we finaly got a winner. :eek2:

burieddeep
01-05-2008, 09:27 PM
Once I see HD DVD vanish from the rack I'll be convinced we finaly got a winner. :eek2:

I agree. It ain't over til' it's over.

Livingdead102
01-05-2008, 09:35 PM
I've been pulling for HD-DVD, mostly because I have a 360 and might one day want the HD add on, but don't have any real investment in it. Congrats Blu-Ray, but I think we know it's a pretty shallow victory, considering most people don't want this stuff yet. As for me, I've actually decided against either of them and am looking into downloadable movies--for the price of a Blu-Ray player, I can buy a terabyte of storage and $200 worth of films. Might as well get ready for the future now, right?

X-human
01-05-2008, 09:56 PM
That's it for HD-DVD, this is the silver bullet. With Toshiba's loss we can now see gains in HD discs.

Building media servers it out of the reach of most people I would think. HDM is certain to become the status quo for the time being.

othervoice1
01-06-2008, 12:10 AM
I tend to more in favor of blu ray now sense most films I want are on it.
I agree with the person that has the goofy pic of Hayley (Where did you get that?)lol<: I started off as a big HD-DVD supporter but have found more and more movies that I like being on Blu-Ray and Blu-Rays features are coming around- I have a PS3 now, and I only currently own 4 HD-DVDs and the 360 add on player and those are on ebay right now. HD-DVD has even canceled their CES time slot due to this. The HD-DVD camp is either trying to find a way right now of coming up with a big counterpunch (they need one cuz I think this thing is over now) or they are talking about how to gracefully bow out. Anyway I feel better about having changed sides recently and feel a little better about any movie I may buy in the near future for Blu-Ray, although I still plan on mostly renting from netflix.

dwatts
01-06-2008, 01:17 AM
Once all the intrigue, bluster, and politics are done with we can get back to discussing films, which willbe a good thing. The quality jump and benefits have gotten lost in the "war", which was just bad news for consumers. This can only be good, although the region coding thing is a nightmare.

rhett
01-06-2008, 01:39 AM
I'm glad to see someone finally trying to end the war - too bad the politics are tainted with bribery and Sony's strong-arm oligopoly. Blu-ray's the technologically superior format, so it deserves to win, but I'm always skeptical when a company has that much control over a medium. DVD still wins though, so let the millennial LaserDisc continue on it's corrupted course.

The Chaostar
01-06-2008, 04:18 AM
Even if BR wins, I'll wait for LOW prices.
No way I'm gonna spend more than 250 Euro for a new player - fuck em!

Vlachio
01-06-2008, 05:25 AM
I agree with the person that has the goofy pic of Hayley (Where did you get that?)lol

http://tinypic.com/topimages.php ;)

Noto
01-06-2008, 06:07 AM
I bought 7 Blu-ray discs new today for under $100.

Anyone who complains they are expensive just don't know how to shop.

KR~!
01-06-2008, 06:29 AM
I bought 7 Blu-ray discs new today for under $100.

Anyone who complains they are expensive just don't know how to shop.

of course, who the heck pays retail?

Dave
01-06-2008, 02:39 PM
I think, and have always thought, the HD disc medium is destined to be the next laserdisc. And I'm okay with that, since it will cater to the home theater enthusiast. Perhaps the studios will be in for a wakeup call in regards to sales, though. But HD disc, even as a niche, will be much larger than laserdisc simply because the market is much larger these days. More people have HD and more people are reading up at the various web sites to educate themselves on the benefits.

dwatts
01-06-2008, 03:14 PM
Anyone who complains they are expensive just don't know how to shop.

Or you simply don't understand the argument. ;)

For $100 I could easily buy 20 SD titles. So your 7 looks a bit... expensive relatively.

Dave
01-06-2008, 03:45 PM
Or you simply don't understand the argument. ;)

For $100 I could easily buy 20 SD titles. So your 7 looks a bit... expensive relatively.

Indeed, but lets go back to the 'you get what you pay for argument'.

And for HD, you are paying for, well, HD, which generally translates to superior audio and video.

HD will probably always be more expensive than standard DVD. And I just don't see it replacing DVD in the next 10 years as the norm for J6P. But when people are complaining of $39.99 catalog titles on blu-ray, it's silly. $39.99 for HD media is a bargain IMO. Not to mention you will easily find it for $30 or less online.

But yeah, I get that many can't afford it when compared to DVD. I can't afford it, either. Right now Dish Network and the occasional high def movie download are my only means to watching high def.

KR~!
01-06-2008, 04:03 PM
Indeed, but lets go back to the 'you get what you pay for argument'.

And for HD, you are paying for, well, HD, which generally translates to superior audio and video.

HD will probably always be more expensive than standard DVD. And I just don't see it replacing DVD in the next 10 years as the norm for J6P. But when people are complaining of $39.99 catalog titles on blu-ray, it's silly. $39.99 for HD media is a bargain IMO. Not to mention you will easily find it for $30 or less online.

But yeah, I get that many can't afford it when compared to DVD. I can't afford it, either. Right now Dish Network and the occasional high def movie download are my only means to watching high def.

You can get many Blu-Ray DVDs for less than $20, sometimes for the same price as the DVD version, and these are brand new not used. There is always some type of sale going on at some on-line website. We even have a thread for them at this very website! :D

Stige
01-06-2008, 05:39 PM
but the new player ( not region free) and the full HD tv can be added to the price as well them start figuring how much they cost. I only have an HD ready LCD so the stores tell me that won't show the full benifit og bluray or hd in reality. so "old" dvd's are good enought for the time being .

dwatts
01-06-2008, 08:32 PM
But when people are complaining of $39.99 catalog titles on blu-ray, it's silly.

Well, that's a matter of opinion. Thinking people won't complain, and rightly, is silly, imo. Unless they intend it to be a niche product and are happy with that, then they need to pull people away from what they know. Multiplying the price by four times (or whatever each disc costs) is a bad decision, and yes, silly. That's simple economics. They've been doing hi-def transfers for ages now - and then downscaling them for SD. So it's not as though they're having to a ton of work at the moment.

I went hi-def over Christmas. I'm happy I did. However, the other point you're missing Dave is that we don't all live in the US. I went to buy Sunshine last week, and it's $60 in the stores here. Yes I can buy online - I found it for $50. But I'm not buying in at that. Add in restrictive region coding meaning I can't easily buy abroad anymore, and you have a huge financial incentive NOT to go HD.

Me? I'll buy a Blu-Ray player from the US....

And the niche thing? You need a new TV to make it work - so of course it's niche. The majority of DVD buyers have standard TV's, so of course SD will be around for years and years to come.

KR~!
01-06-2008, 10:27 PM
I went to buy Sunshine last week, and it's $60 in the stores here. Yes I can buy online - I found it for $50. But I'm not buying in at that. Add in restrictive region coding meaning I can't easily buy abroad anymore, and you have a huge financial incentive NOT to go HD.

Me? I'll buy a Blu-Ray player from the US....




For US and Canada users, you can get this film for $27.89 with free shipping here: http://www.tower.com/details/details.cfm?wapi=111656056

dwatts
01-07-2008, 12:12 AM
Yup - things are cheaper over there - and Sunshine is region coded, so not good my importing it. Hence the issue with Blu-Ray - it's very restrictive of choice. Not a concern for US people though.........

Still, sunshine is an example of a film I'd pay over the odds for (as compared to SD), since it's so damn great.

X-human
01-07-2008, 07:25 AM
I only have an HD ready LCD so the stores tell me that won't show the full benifit og bluray or hd in reality. so "old" dvd's are good enought for the time being .

Does it down convert HD or something? Are you only 720p? Even that's much better than 480i/p. I thought "HD ready" just meant that it can receive HD signals but it can't process them, so as an example you'd need an HD tuner for a HD antenna.

Anyways here's some interesting news direct from Toshiba, HD DVD players represented 49.3 percent of the players for high definition discs sold as of Dec. 22, quoting figures from market research firm NPD. However, the figures don't include sales of Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3 game console, which plays Blu-ray discs.http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080106/gadget_show_hd_dvd.html

So sales of stand alone players were at a dead heat, excluding PS3s, after about July '07 as I recall. Before that HD-DVD was leading. Not only has Blu-ray matched total HD-DVD monthly sales they must have exceeded them. Warner is also the first company to reveal total disc sales numbers, The company said sales of Blu-ray discs in the U.S. generated $169 million last year, while sales of discs in the HD DVD format totaled $103 million.

About 60 percent of Warner's sales of U.S. high-definition discs were Blu-ray titles and the other 40 percent were HD DVD, said Kevin Tsujihara, president of Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group.

Outside the U.S., the divide was far wider, with Warner's Blu-ray discs outselling titles in HD DVD in Britain and Japan, among other markets, Tsujihara said.

Sales of set-top high-definition disc players in the fourth quarter of 2007 also factored into Warner's decision.

The company saw an acceleration in sales of Blu-ray players at the end of the quarter, particularly in December, Tsujihara said.

"We always viewed set-tops as the most significant indicator" of consumers' format preference, he said.http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=5406144&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.6.1

Sales numbers are larger than I thought. The more information coming out the more it looks like HD-DVD was losing beyond just with Warner's jump ship.

dwatts
01-07-2008, 08:36 AM
Regardless of the numbers, have you anyidea how annoying it is to be told you can't own a film you really want in hi-def, because it's in a different format? Makes you want to scream....

Noto
01-07-2008, 09:35 AM
Regardless of the numbers, have you anyidea how annoying it is to be told you can't own a film you really want in hi-def, because it's in a different format? Makes you want to scream....

I would think that's the main reason that the "war" needs to end. But really, that's something all adopters knew going into this so it shouldn't be a surprise to any of them.

I can't watch Transformers in HD tonight, or Aeon Flux, or even Balls of Fury, because I don't have HD DVD. I have to just say "oh well" and hope that some day they will come to Blu (Aeon Flux was already on Blu before the switch).

dwatts
01-07-2008, 10:57 AM
Sadly, since Blu-Ray has won, the region encoding won't end, it'll likely increase in usage. And with online updates (my PS3 loves to go online and update itself!) even cracking the player might be difficult. And with Apple doing things like turning modded iPhones into bricks with updates - it doesn't bode well at the moment.

maybrick
01-07-2008, 02:06 PM
Quick question: Is 1080p/i strictly for large scale TV sets? Not that I've researched it much at all, but the reason I ask is that by casual glance in every store I go into that sells HD, all of the TVs in my preferred size range (32"-37") appear to max out at 720p. I haven't seen a single model that delivers the full 1080.

SaviniFan
01-07-2008, 02:18 PM
Quick question: Is 1080p/i strictly for large scale TV sets? Not that I've researched it much at all, but the reason I ask is that by casual glance in every store I go into that sells HD, all of the TVs in my preferred size range (32"-37") appear to max out at 720p. I haven't seen a single model that delivers the full 1080.

I own an Astar 32" LCD HDTV. It does 1080i. So yes, some models do.

geeare
01-07-2008, 02:24 PM
Gratz to Blu on another step closer to the win!

maybrick
01-07-2008, 02:46 PM
I own an Astar 32" LCD HDTV. It does 1080i. So yes, some models do.

Good to know. My next question, then, is does the added resolution really make a big enough difference at that small of a scale to warrant paying a few to several hundred dollars extra for?

SaviniFan
01-07-2008, 02:56 PM
Good to know. My next question, then, is does the added resolution really make a big enough difference at that small of a scale to warrant paying a few to several hundred dollars extra for?

If you search you can find HDTVs for a reasonable price. I got mine at a local Microcenter for only $500 ($600 with a $100 mail in rebate). I'm very satisfied with the quality of the set for the price. I assume that once prices come down a bit more though that I will opt for a 40-42" 1080i HDTV and move this one to the bedroom.

SaviniFan
01-07-2008, 03:00 PM
Here is a 1080i 32" for $600.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0276633

Another for only $549.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0254620

maybrick
01-07-2008, 03:33 PM
Never heard of those brands so I'm a bit wary. 32" is a little too small for me, actually. I need at least a 34" widescreen set in order to match the vertical height of my current SD fullframe TV set.

Grim
01-07-2008, 05:03 PM
I've been supporting both formats just because there were titles on both that I absolutely needed. I actually haven't bought an HD-DVD in awhile now because there just hasn't been much else released of interest to me due to the decreasing studio support. I got the HD-DVD drive almost nine months before my PS3 and I already have more blu-ray discs than HD-DVD. I've got about 12 HD-DVD's so it won't be that big of a deal. Glad I supported both, though.

baggio
01-07-2008, 06:23 PM
Never heard of those brands so I'm a bit wary. 32" is a little too small for me, actually. I need at least a 34" widescreen set in order to match the vertical height of my current SD fullframe TV set.

Word to the wise. I would never ever buy those brands. I would be sticking to major brands.

And second, I would never buy a 1080 tv that was 60mhz. It makes absolutely no sense. Don't be one of one's that buys that older technology. I hate to be the person that spent thousands of dollars on a 1080 lcd tv , only to realize they made a mistake. Thats why prices are cheaper for lcd lately. That need to dump that older tech. For crying outloud I've seen 720's handle screen action better than 1080's using the older mhz.


Unless you want to wait until 2010 for OLED ;)

or even SED

KR~!
01-07-2008, 07:42 PM
I am glad that it happen for two reasons:

Toshiba was the only one making HD-DVD Players and they are not known as a high end company.

As far as those TVs go, I have never heard of those brands. There are only a handful of brands that I trust and they all cost a lot ;)

X-human
01-07-2008, 08:07 PM
Regardless of the numbers, have you anyidea how annoying it is to be told you can't own a film you really want in hi-def, because it's in a different format? Makes you want to scream....

I feel your pain mate, as I doubt Forbidden Planet will come any time soon to Blu-ray. Even more doubtful that they'll even bother with the tin.

Aeon Flux isn't a problem for me though, I've got that on Blu-ray. ;)

Good to know. My next question, then, is does the added resolution really make a big enough difference at that small of a scale to warrant paying a few to several hundred dollars extra for?

I would say especially at that scale 720p would be very close to 1080i/p as I hear it's hard to tell the difference even on much larger sets. I always squeeze every penny.

baggio
01-07-2008, 09:24 PM
Toshiba was the only one making HD-DVD Players and they are not known as a high end company.



Not high end in what field?

maybrick
01-07-2008, 10:10 PM
Word to the wise. I would never ever buy those brands. I would be sticking to major brands.

And second, I would never buy a 1080 tv that was 60mhz. It makes absolutely no sense. Don't be one of one's that buys that older technology. I hate to be the person that spent thousands of dollars on a 1080 lcd tv , only to realize they made a mistake. Thats why prices are cheaper for lcd lately. That need to dump that older tech. For crying outloud I've seen 720's handle screen action better than 1080's using the older mhz.


Unless you want to wait until 2010 for OLED ;)

or even SED

What specifically is wrong with LCD, and what should we be shooting for optimally? Plasma? By and large, LCD is about the only one for sale in chains like Target.

KamuiX
01-07-2008, 11:00 PM
What specifically is wrong with LCD, and what should we be shooting for optimally? Plasma? By and large, LCD is about the only one for sale in chains like Target.

I don't see why some have so many problems with LCD. Plasma's fade over the years and have heavy risk of image burn, and DLP's, while ideally better, have to be in a room with little outside light-source, or it looks like junk. You just need to REALLY study the picture quality of LCD's to find the one you think stacks up.

http://www.magnavox.com/index.cfm?event=main&cat_id=1&subcat_id=5&product=103

I have that TV, and it's phenomenal. Everything looks amazing on it, and it looks way better than my original 32" 1080i. And you can get it for about $1,000, one of the better bargains right now when it comes to full 1080p. Even though many say you can't notice the difference on a set under 47", I don't believe it at all, as this TV looks far better than the 32" 1080i, like I said. I plugged my PS3 into both to look at Blu-Ray discs, and the Blu-Ray's look FAR better on the 1080p than the 1080i. This TV also has really great black levels. I highly recommend it.

KR~!
01-08-2008, 12:50 AM
Not high end in what field?

All fields, Computers, A/V, you name it. They do not make high end stuff, only low end and mid level products. But, hey don't take my word for it, Google for reviews.

dwatts
01-08-2008, 12:58 PM
Sony make very few high-end things either. In fact, I hate Sony because I've a long history of shitty products that has borken from them. If you want hi-end audio, for instance, you ain't buying Sony (or rather, I wouldn't be, and I don't know anyone else who has) .......

KR~!
01-08-2008, 01:06 PM
Sony makes Low end, Mid level and High end products. Their high end stuff is very good, of course most people can't afford it.

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/ces2008/Sony%20XEL-1.JPG

dwatts
01-08-2008, 01:24 PM
As I stated, they make a few. However, of the three people I know with high-end gear - and we're talking about people spending in excess of $10k for audio alone, none of them would consider Sony. Neither would I. Three might not sound like a lot, but hell, how many people spend this kind of money of equipment really? It doesn't have a good name in the high-end market. It's a mass produced mid-range company with some high-end components. High-end tends to be occupied by niche companies. Sony is a mass brand.

Actually there's a fourth guy.... he just spend $10k on a projector for home cinema use.... and no, it wasn't a Sony either.

Sadly, my days of being in the illustrious company of these audio fanatics are over. Back in the day I recall paying a few thousand for a record deck.... these days howeverm I'm solidly mid-range, but other than a PS3 for obvious reasons, I wouldn't touch a Sony. I just have had so many bad experiences with TV's, CD players, Walkmans etc....... take one apart and see how they're constructed.....

Still, each to their own.

baggio
01-08-2008, 04:05 PM
What specifically is wrong with LCD, and what should we be shooting for optimally? Plasma? By and large, LCD is about the only one for sale in chains like Target.

I never said don't buy LCD. I said be careful when buying a 1080 LCD.

And I'm not a fan of Plasma. In fact some companies have dropped Plasma from their TV production lines.

I don't see why some have so many problems with LCD. Plasma's fade over the years and have heavy risk of image burn, and DLP's, while ideally better, have to be in a room with little outside light-source, or it looks like junk. You just need to REALLY study the picture quality of LCD's to find the one you think stacks up.


Again, I never said LCD are bad. You don't have to prove anything about what Plasma do or don't do to me. I would never buy one. Not now and not when they came out years ago.

baggio
01-08-2008, 04:16 PM
All fields, Computers, A/V, you name it. They do not make high end stuff, only low end and mid level products. But, hey don't take my word for it, Google for reviews.

Well in my definition of "high end" Toshiba makes quality products with a good track record of reliability.

IMO they make some of the best TV's on the market.

fceurich39
01-08-2008, 05:30 PM
warner bros is going to be exclusive to blu ray i do hope universal starts making blu ray dvds

dwatts
01-08-2008, 06:06 PM
Plasma's fade over the years and have heavy risk of image burn

The things you have to read over and over... I've had a plasma for a couple years - no burn it, and no problem with colors. It might happen in the future, who knows, but I don't expect the thing to last forever. The point is, these statements get trtotted out as though they happen all the time, to every set, and therefore the entire technology is at fault. Clearly it's not so.

KR~!
01-08-2008, 06:53 PM
The things you have to read over and over... I've had a plasma for a couple years - no burn it, and no problem with colors. It might happen in the future, who knows, but I don't expect the thing to last forever. The point is, these statements get trtotted out as though they happen all the time, to every set, and therefore the entire technology is at fault. Clearly it's not so.

maybe the very 1st plasma sets ever made had these issues.

KR~!
01-08-2008, 06:56 PM
As I stated, they make a few. However, of the three people I know with high-end gear - and we're talking about people spending in excess of $10k for audio alone, none of them would consider Sony. Neither would I. Three might not sound like a lot, but hell, how many people spend this kind of money of equipment really? It doesn't have a good name in the high-end market. It's a mass produced mid-range company with some high-end components. High-end tends to be occupied by niche companies. Sony is a mass brand.

Actually there's a fourth guy.... he just spend $10k on a projector for home cinema use.... and no, it wasn't a Sony either.

Sadly, my days of being in the illustrious company of these audio fanatics are over. Back in the day I recall paying a few thousand for a record deck.... these days howeverm I'm solidly mid-range, but other than a PS3 for obvious reasons, I wouldn't touch a Sony. I just have had so many bad experiences with TV's, CD players, Walkmans etc....... take one apart and see how they're constructed.....

Still, each to their own.

I will never buy a lot of Sony stuff. However, at least they make some high end stuff, unlike Toshiba.

These are the ones that I want:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors

Left is mid level, on the right are the high end ones.

dwatts
01-08-2008, 07:06 PM
Actually, I read a review recently of a new LCD projector from Sony that has specs that were barely believable, but true. Wish I'd saved the link. It wasn't cheap! But apparently it was a fantastic piece of kit. As an LCD fan over DLP it was good to see Sony doing something with it. And at the price ($10k sticks in my mind) I guess you'd have to call it high-end. :D

Damn - I'd kill for one of those 60" screens. It's a lot of money, but in U pounds that's only around 3700...... too much, but WOW.

KamuiX
01-08-2008, 07:36 PM
The things you have to read over and over... I've had a plasma for a couple years - no burn it, and no problem with colors. It might happen in the future, who knows, but I don't expect the thing to last forever. The point is, these statements get trtotted out as though they happen all the time, to every set, and therefore the entire technology is at fault. Clearly it's not so.

I personally know 3 people that had plasmas, and all have had problems, and all have since switched to different tech. That alone is enough knowledge for me to never purchase one. Plus gaming on a plasma is something I'd never risk. As with anything, different people have different experiences (like how my original PlayStation from 1995 still works without a hitch, which is about a million-to-one)

dwatts
01-08-2008, 07:53 PM
I game on my plasma. :)

And fair enough if you have personal experience that's been negative - were they early models? I have a plasma (two years), my parents have one, a couple friends.... not heard anything negative.... I've READ negatives, just never seen them.

Thanks to KR I now want a 60" anyway. :D

Dave
01-08-2008, 08:15 PM
I love my 16x9 CRT. Limited size, yes, (40-some odd inches) but man does it have a beautiful picture.

baggio
01-08-2008, 10:19 PM
I love my 16x9 CRT. Limited size, yes, (40-some odd inches) but man does it have a beautiful picture.

I'm sure it is. Nothing beats CRT Tube HD. Only con is the size limitations.

baggio
01-08-2008, 11:05 PM
I will never buy a lot of Sony stuff. However, at least they make some high end stuff, unlike Toshiba.

These are the ones that I want:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors

Left is mid level, on the right are the high end ones.

Well just because its expensive and has a name Elite, it makes it high end?Just because its plasma , it makes it high end?

If thats the case, Toshiba sells $7000 dollar LCD tvs. So now what? What do you call that?

Toshiba dropped their plasma line because LCD is what sells. over 80% to plasma and growing. Plasma is becoming unprofitable among all flat panel sales.

I'm just saying your incorrect that Toshiba dosen't sell high-end products. They sure do, computers, tvs, etc...

So anyway, if you have a Plasma, thats great, it works for you. I never said they stink. But just remember to keep your curtains closed ;)

KR~!
01-08-2008, 11:07 PM
I'm sure it is. Nothing beats CRT Tube HD. Only con is the size limitations.

and weight:eek1:

Dave
01-08-2008, 11:26 PM
The thing is a tank. I can move it on my own; it's just a bit awkward to hold due to width.

The other pro is that laserdiscs still look half decent on it, though I must admit it has been a good year since I've spun a laser.

But I'm pretty much stuck with what I got until I get a bigger place, which is at least a year away. And until then I'm in no huge rush to go HD disc.

Workshed
01-08-2008, 11:58 PM
and weight:eek1:

Yeah, no kidding. As I moved outta my apartment recently, I had a 27" tuber that was a beast. As I lugged it down the four flights of stairs, awkwardly gripping it and cursing, I thought about lugging it across the country and then moving it into whatever new apartment I would have. I got the bottom of my stairs and left it on the stoop with a note: "Yes, I work. Yes, I am free." To hell with lugging that thing around. It was a great, 9 year old set.

dwatts
01-09-2008, 01:03 AM
I was so happy to ditch my widescreen CRT. The sheer size of the thing was ridiculous - it stood a couple feet away from the wall, and dominated the room. It's a TV, not an ornament, I wanted it to be more unnoticable unless we were watching it. A nice big plasma has given me a large amount of space back (contrary to what one might expect going to a larger screen, ultimately my 42" plasma takes up LESS space than my huge CRT did.

But each to their own, CRT's looks good, but in this day and age, size matters, and I'm pleased with what I have.

KamuiX
01-09-2008, 01:29 AM
And fair enough if you have personal experience that's been negative - were they early models? I have a plasma (two years), my parents have one, a couple friends.... not heard anything negative.... I've READ negatives, just never seen them.

I'd say these people got them in 2004/5, so they may indeed have been earlier models.

SaviniFan
01-09-2008, 01:50 AM
Although I don't doubt baggio's intentions when saying to steer clear of the lesser known brands, I must say my 32" Astar LCD 1080i HDTV looks great when watching high definition stations and upconverted DVDs. The SD broadcasts leave a bit to be desired, but I have yet to see an affordable HDTV make them look good. I've had the TV for almost a year now and it has been a great purchase thus far.

Noto
01-09-2008, 01:54 AM
Vizio which I believe is Costco's brand has amazing looking 1080i plasmas for under $1400. (at the 50" range)

They aren't bad looking by any stretch and their output has been amazing on a friend of mine that I spend time with regularly. We've played Blu-ray discs on it and the color is fantastic. SD looks completely fine on it. I'm contemplating getting one myself.

Roo
01-09-2008, 02:54 AM
Vizio which I believe is Costco's brand has amazing looking 1080i plasmas for under $1400. (at the 50" range)

They aren't bad looking by any stretch and their output has been amazing on a friend of mine that I spend time with regularly. We've played Blu-ray discs on it and the color is fantastic. SD looks completely fine on it. I'm contemplating getting one myself.

Vizio is mid to low price brand that you can get in Costco, Sams, Best Buy & Circuit City. I know a couple of people that own an LCD Vizio and they're very happy with it. If you don't want to pay top dollar for a lcd or plasma, Vizio is a good brand to consider. The one claim made by most Vizio owners, it has the best bang for the buck.

KR~!
01-09-2008, 03:42 AM
However be careful about older Vizio models which had a small issue of blowing up, LOL, well the bulb anyway. The latest models fixed this problem.

Noto
01-09-2008, 04:03 AM
Some of the Vizios shown at CES this week have seemingly killer features on them. I'll wait till reviews actually trickle in though.

My friend who owns the Plasma I mentioned has had three other Vizios, two of which I've seen and they've all been fairly decent.

deplop cinema
01-09-2008, 01:53 PM
Vizio which I believe is Costco's brand has amazing looking 1080i plasmas for under $1400. (at the 50" range)

They aren't bad looking by any stretch and their output has been amazing on a friend of mine that I spend time with regularly. We've played Blu-ray discs on it and the color is fantastic. SD looks completely fine on it. I'm contemplating getting one myself.


100% agree! of all the lower priced models i've checked out these by far looked the best, even better than ones that costed a lot more.

KR~!
01-11-2008, 02:11 AM
Nothing has been announced, but Variety is reporting that the last two major studios backing HD DVD — NBC Universal and Paramount — are opening the door for a switch to Blu-ray. These studios have commitments to release some discs this year in HD DVD, but both have ended their exclusive commitment to that format, which is backed by a group led by Toshiba.

This comes after Warner Brothers, which had been issuing movies in both formats, decided to go exclusively with Sony’s Blu-ray format. Variety also reports that retailers may also put pressure on Universal and Paramount to back Blu-ray. Last summer, Blockbuster decided to go with Blu-ray only.

So what appeared to be a stalemate may, with one relatively small move by Warner, now turn out to be a quick victory for Sony. The fight between the systems has hurt studios, electronics makers and consumers. And I suspect a winner — any winner — will be welcomed by all sides (except Toshiba and Microsoft, a key partner).

Read More here: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/hd-dvds-fall-like-dominoes/?ref=technology

othervoice1
01-11-2008, 04:10 AM
I wish this war would end but the Universal rumor appears to be just that: for now.........below is the article from hi-def digest:

Responding to published reports that its commitment to backing HD DVD exclusively has ended, Universal has issued a new statement of support for HD DVD.

"Contrary to unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources, Universal's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format," said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment and co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group.


Graffeo's comments follow a report in yesterday's Variety that Universal's agreement to exclusively support HD DVD had ended and had not been renewed. The report went on to speculate that both Universal and Paramount could switch sides soon, ending the high-def format war instantly.

A Universal spokesperson told us this afternoon that the studio plans to issue new upcoming HD DVD title announcements in the near future.

The HD DVD Promotions Group is also said to be planning its own statement regarding the rumors of a Universal switch to format neutrality.

Stay tuned...

Noto
01-11-2008, 04:36 AM
Where in that rebuttal does it say that it wouldn't be supporting both formats?

Oh yeah, this change is gonna happen. Just a matter of time.

Grim
01-11-2008, 04:37 AM
It's basically over at this point so I don't see why they feel the need to drag it out and give HD-DVD a long, painful death. And this is coming from a guy who owns about 12 flicks on HD-DVD.

dwatts
01-11-2008, 08:54 AM
Universal are making a huge mistake if they don't, at the very least, go dual format. They'll simply lose money. Talk about the writing on the wall, it's in letters ten feet high.

X-human
01-11-2008, 11:03 PM
Numbers came in for the week ending January 6th, 65:35 with Blu-ray in the lead. This was the week of Warner's announcement on the 4th. So HD-DVD as Christmas presents we all heard about did not create a quick turn around for Toshiba either. Now they have zero chance to.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom011308/index.php

Disney has an ad on pages 2 and 3 that include quarter sales numbers for 2007 comparing Blu-ray and HD-DVD. The data shows that by Q4 the "close to 2:1 margin" is pretty damn close; about 165,000 units off. That's pretty much the difference of a single block buster being on one side instead of the other. So reports that the 2:1 gap is closing fast was far from reality.

I don't buy Toshiba's statement of a great Q4 '07. In and of itself perhaps but not nearly as good as its competition in any category. Blu-ray stand alone sale numbers had surpassed HD-DVD stand alones (not even counting PS3's), weakly sales ratio was steady at about 65:35 in favor of Blu and the total sales ratio was climbing to 2:1. When you're talking about a presidential election, numbers like that you're golden. Candidates can only dream of numbers like that. You're probably not going to see consumers make a clearer choice than that in this situation.

Undoubtably Universal and Paramount will be going at least neutral by May, and unless Toshiba wants to get into the business of overpriced doorstops and coasters they'd be looking to limit production too. I'd bet that a year from now the average person would look at a HD-DVD owner like they're cross-eyed. :D We'll have to see if Blu-ray fairs better.

KR~!
01-14-2008, 07:03 PM
Toshiba to clear stock of HD-DVD players...

The HD DVD camp suffered a serious blow on Jan. 4, when Warner Bros. Entertainment said it would stop publishing movies on HD DVD in May, to focus on Blu-ray and regular DVD.

That leaves only two major studios, Paramount and Universal, still supporting HD DVD, while five support Blu-ray.

Toshiba on Monday slashed the suggested retail price of its cheapest player, the HD-A3, from $299.99 to $149.99. The price for the HD-A30 was also halved, from $399.99 to $199.99, while the price on the high-end HD-A35 went from $499.99 to $299.99.

they of course are trying hard to spin it, but it's clear as to why they are really doing it.

source: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5idoEkZw90FB9fnx5gM-m1IUbIrjQD8U5OS900

Also, did anyone catch the Walmart commercial for Blu-Ray?

Reverenddave
01-14-2008, 08:47 PM
It's funny, but I never see people use terms like "fire sale", "dumping" or "clearing stock" when Blu-Ray gives away software in their B1G1 sales. It only seems to apply to HD-DVD's low-priced hardware sales.

Having the lowest hardware prices has always been HD-DVD's strategy. This price drop is obviously their response to all the bad news last week.

Toshiba Deploys New HD DVD Marketing campaign

By Henning Molbaek
Jan 14, 2008

A new Toshiba Press Release confirms the new list prices on players and indicates that they do not intend to declare HD DVD dead anytime soon.

Press Release:
WAYNE, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C. ("Toshiba") today announced that it is stepping up its successful marketing campaign for HD DVD as it experienced record-breaking unit sales in the fourth quarter of 2007. Major initiatives, including joint advertising campaigns with studios and extended pricing strategies will begin in mid- January and are designed to spotlight the superior benefits of HD DVD as well as the benefits HD DVD brings to a consumer's current DVD library by upconverting standard DVDs via the HDMI(TM) output to near high definition picture quality.

As Toshiba achieved the #1 sales volume in the next generation DVD category with an approximately 50 percent market share in 2007, HD DVD is proven to be the format of choice for consumers. Coupled with an 80 percent plus market share of all next generation DVD equipped notebooks for the 4th quarter 2007, the HD DVD format has already paved the way to a high definition digital AV solution by eliminating the boundaries between the consumer's living room and on the go.

HD DVD not only creates the ultimate high definition entertainment experience, leveraging all of the promise of the format such as superior audio/video performance, Web-enabled network capabilities and advanced interactive features - it also has a high-level of compatibility with DVD. With DVD upconversion via the HDMI output, HD DVD players instantly make a movie lover's existing DVD library look better than ever.

"HD DVD is the best way to watch movies in high definition," said Jodi Sally, Vice President of Marketing, Toshiba's Digital A/V Group. "Our HD DVD players not only play back approximately 800 HD DVD titles available worldwide and deliver an entirely new level of entertainment but also enhance the picture quality to near high definition on legacy DVD titles by all studios. In short, we added high def to DVD which already is the de facto standard format created and approved by the DVD Forum that consists of more than two hundred companies."

New Marketing Strategy for Mass Market Adoption

Taking the holiday season sales based on promotional prices into full consideration, these new manufacturer's suggested retail prices (MSRP) are designed to meet the potential demand for HD DVD players in the U.S. market. Effective on January 13, 2008 the MSRP of the entry-model HD-A3 will be $149.99, the HD-A30, with 1080p output, $199.99, and the high-end HD-A35, $299.99.

"While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer," said Yoshi Uchiyama, Group Vice President Digital A/V Group. "Consumer sales this holiday season have proven that the consumer awareness of the HD DVD format has been elevated and pricing is the most critical determinant in consumers' purchase decision of the next generation HD DVD technology. The value HD DVD provides to the consumer simply cannot be ignored."

Extended Advertising Campaign

Toshiba plans to execute an extended advertising campaign that will further enhance consumer awareness of the benefits of HD DVD and drive sales to retail among potential consumers. Advertising strategies will include television, print and online media channels. Toshiba will also work with its dealers and studio partners on joint marketing and promotional initiatives to promote HD DVD. Current promotions include "The Perfect HD Offer" - a mail-in offer allowing consumers to select five HD DVD titles for free from a selection of 15 with the purchase of any Toshiba HD DVD player.

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/toshiba-deploys-new-hd-dvd-marketing-campaign/5120

dwatts
01-14-2008, 09:55 PM
By far the best lines:

As Toshiba achieved the #1 sales volume in the next generation DVD category with an approximately 50 percent market share in 2007.

I mean, that's almost too good to be true.

Our HD DVD players not only play back approximately 800 HD DVD titles available worldwide

Should they add: "And there'll be 800 next year, too."?

X-human
01-14-2008, 10:31 PM
Too little too late. I don't think it's a fire sale, the $99 was because they were clearing out an older model, but this really is an attempt to save HD-DVD because frankly it's all Toshiba can do. But even if they handed out HD-DVD players not only for free but with $100 in cash it still wouldn't change the fact that you have a piece of hardware dedicated to watching Paramount and Universal movies exclusively.

There's no way you're going to get Blu-ray buyers to switch now and you're only hurting the rest of the consumers by wasting their hard earned money. This was why I could never in good mind recommend HD-DVD, they were one step away from being irrelevant. Now that Warner has taken that last step I find it truly bewildering that HD-DVD supports still call HD-DVD the best deal.

If I drop even $100 on something and only use it for a few years then compare it to another competing product I could be using for 10 or more years it doesn't make sounds sense to spend even that $100. I don't want something that'll satisfy me only now, I want something that'll satisfy me a decade from now too. Of all the HD equipment on the market, the PS3 is easily the safest bet on that.

dwatts
01-14-2008, 10:36 PM
Let's look at their sales over the next 3 to 6 months, their press releases will start looking very different.

Dave
01-14-2008, 11:06 PM
Someone at HTF made a good point. With the price drops, they're basically the same price as an upconverting DVD player, but this has HD-DVD support, too.

Still not getting either anytime soon, but I'll continue to follow developments.

Livingdead102
01-15-2008, 06:16 AM
I just read an article on BBC News about how many early adopters of Blu-Ray are going to be out of luck when it comes to new features because the players they bought won't support them, even with firmware updates. This isn't news for most of us, but I'm sure many would be disappointed to know they bought a defective by design player. Why isn't HD-DVD telling us about this? Why aren't they telling us about how Blu-Ray is better for the studios at the expense of the consumers? Hell, why aren't I seeing anything about HD-DVD in the media except for when I walk down the DVD aisle at Best Buy or read about the latest nail in their coffin in the news (I know I'm a virtual media hermit, but I'm seeing Blu-Ray stuff now and again...)? Why are those who support the format left to make up their own excuses as to why they continue to do so?

I still don't plan on going Blu anytime in the next three years (and maybe ever, depending on what's availabe by then) but I just can't worry about the fate of HD-DVD anymore right now. If the companies keeping HD-DVD on life support won't make any real effort to get people to support it, I don't see why I--or any of us who haven't made the jump--should care.

drown021
01-15-2008, 06:19 AM
I've already gone blu-ray (ps3) but I really hope Universal supports blu-ray.Universal has a lot of older horror titles and franchises I would like to see get the HD treatment. I went blu ray (ps3) even though the initial cost was higher because I could always get an hd-dvd for my xbox 360 cheaper if that format won,wich I don't think will. Either way,MGM going exclusive is a big move,come on Universal.

dwatts
01-15-2008, 11:16 AM
but I'm sure many would be disappointed to know they bought a defective by design player

Not defective, just not at the current spec. I'm with you, I'd be annoyed, but the word "defective" probably isn't appropriate.

Why isn't HD-DVD telling us about this? Why aren't they telling us about how Blu-Ray is better for the studios at the expense of the consumers?

I don't know how many posts you've read, this has been circulated for ages - like the example that HD-DVD isn't region coded.........

If the companies keeping HD-DVD on life support won't make any real effort to get people to support it, I don't see why I--or any of us who haven't made the jump--should care.

But they've worked REALLY hard - it's just that stauiods like WB want to go exclusive to one format or the other because right now the market is a mess. HD-DVD tried, but they lost.

Universal will go sooner or later.

As for profile updates.... so easy on a PS3.............

Livingdead102
01-15-2008, 05:18 PM
Not defective, just not at the current spec. I'm with you, I'd be annoyed, but the word "defective" probably isn't appropriate.

If a product, over its life span, develops functionality that isn't originally foreseen and early implementations of that product thus don't incorporate that functionality, I understand. If, however, a manufacturer releases a machine they call a Blu-Ray player without knowing the full functionality of a Blu-Ray player, and without the ability to implement the full functionality of a Blu-Ray player in the future, I call that defective (and intentionally so, thus "by design"). And I don't buy the multiple spec story--releasing a specification that you know is incomplete just so your opposition doesn't get ahead of you makes good business sense, but is still unethical in my opinion.

I don't know how many posts you've read, this has been circulated for ages - like the example that HD-DVD isn't region coded.........

I know it's not news. I'm not suggesting that this information was kept from the consumer or something. What I'm criticizing is the apparent inability of the companies that support HD-DVD to launch a competent ad campaign. Maybe it's just the area I'm in, or the magazines I read, or the shows I watch, but the only advertising for HD-DVD products I see are from the retailers trying to sell the things, and often right next to Blu-ray ads (or even in the same ad!). This is not the case with Blu-ray. I'm sure other people's experiences are different, but from where I stand, HD-DVD has done a pretty poor job of making me aware of its product and creating in me the desire to purchase it.

KR~!
01-15-2008, 07:22 PM
I have seen only one HD-DVD ad on TV and tons of Blu-Ray ads.