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KR~!
11-29-2007, 01:18 PM
Europe and Japan seems to be a lock. Can the US be next?

read this:

The Blu-ray Disc Association has announced that high definition (HD) movie DVDs in the Blu-ray format have outsold the rival HD DVD standard in Europe this year, selling more than one million and constituting 73% of all high definition movie discs, Reuters has reported.

The association also announced that 20 million PS3 games based on Blu-ray technology have been shipped to Europe. Additionally, the total number of Blu-ray gaming discs produced for sale in Europe exceeded 21 million units.

Earlier this month, the association announced that Blu-ray owned 97% of the high definition recorder market in Japan while HD DVD recorders had only 3% market share. According to Home Media Research, Blu-ray disc DVD titles had outsold rival HD-DVD titles by almost two-to-one in the first nine months of 2007 in the US.

The high definition DVD market comprises of two technologies Blu-ray, developed by Toshiba and Sony's HD DVD. To support both the technologies, Samsung plans to release a dual-format HD player, BD-UP5000 by end of 2007. Samsung will become the second company to launch a dual-format player after LG Electronics, which launched the player in January 2007.

Source: ComputerWire daily updates

http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=5F23353B-C93E-4A8E-8F2D-33F581E18AFE

Ash J. Williams
11-29-2007, 02:25 PM
First off, this information leaves out why the Blu-Ray players have 97% of the market in Japan: The PS3 has it built in, and the PS3 sells in Japan. The HD-DVD player is available only as an add-on to the XBox 360, and the 360 (and the original Xbox) has sold miserably in Japan since day one, due to lack of titles the Japanese market craves, and poor advertisement to the consumers there. Don't quote me on this, but I believe the Game Boy Advance continues to largely outsell the 360, despite the DS having a fully-functional Game Boy Advance in it. This is because Microsoft doesn't know how to sell their system in that market, and if the system itself doesn't sell, then an add-on that's another half of the price surely isn't going to.

I'm unclear of the market situation in Europe, but I hear the PS3 is starting to sell much better over there, especially in the recent weeks. Of course the Blu-Ray Disc Association would announce this information now, a week after Black Friday, because the sales are at a recent high. And notice that they don't even mention the North American market figures.

This press release leaves out crucial information, something Sony has been known for for a while now. The format war isn't over, at least not in region 1. Not by a long shot.

maybrick
11-29-2007, 03:40 PM
It may be true, or it may not. You can't really expect an unbiased press release about the current state of the format war from a group called "The Blu-Ray Disc Association".

X-human
11-29-2007, 05:30 PM
The HD-DVD player is available only as an add-on to the XBox 360

Toshiba is a Japanese company. I know for a fact you can get the HD-XA2 and HD-XF2 in Japan: http://www.i4u.com/article7125.html

Blu-ray did have Japan from the start, even before the PS3 it was a lock. Japan has had writable Blu-ray discs for a few years before HD-DVD was even released. There's no doubt HD-DVD's has experienced much shame in Japan.

I agree though that Europe is in the same cat's game that the US is in. But at the same time, how long can something sell in 30% of the market but ask for 50% of the shelf space? I just doesn't seem viable to me.

Ash J. Williams
11-29-2007, 05:52 PM
Toshiba is a Japanese company. I know for a fact you can get the HD-XA2 and HD-XF2 in Japan: http://www.i4u.com/article7125.html


Erm, sorry - badly worded. I meant that, with a game system, it's only available as an add-on to the 360, not built in. I know you can get standalone players, but they're still really expensive, and most people consider it worth it to get a system with it. The problem is, that when Japanese consumers buy a system, they're buying it for the games first - they would probably pay a comparable price for the PS3 without a Blu-Ray player, with the software it has that so much appeals to the Japanese market.

dwatts
11-29-2007, 07:34 PM
Well, everytime I read about successful products they're driven from US sales, not Japanese sales. I think in the end it'll be what wins in the US that will help drive Europe.

Europe is so far behind all this it isn't funny. For instance, in the UK I believe there to be 7 or so hi-def TV channels - five of which are sport. The major sattelite provider are Sky, and they have by far the largest number of subscribers - Sky say the uptake for hi-def is around 3%. A whopping big 3%...... there simply arn't the channels..... Does this sound like a thriving hi-def market right now?

Then there is the falasy that Playstation 3 sales equate to hi-def movie sales. Say what you want, people mostly buy Playstation 3's for gaming, not for movie watching. It's a method to play with numbers though. No-one talks about "total DVD sales" and quotes sales numbers for movie use and computer use all in one big ball. Games aren't movies.

On the other hand, MS seem to have hesitated. There's a new model of the Xbox 360 out (forget the name), but MS sure as hell weren't ready to ship a HD-DVD drive with it, it's still an add on. Hedging bets? Worried that they might end up with a bunch of machines out there with an obsolete drive they now have to support? Or do we believe they just wanted to keep the price down?

And oh - the cheapest HD-DVD player I've been able to find over here - the CHEAPEST - is $320. Blue Ray is more like $800. Nice price point people.

Was I the only one that looked at that "Europe this year, selling more than one million" and thought - a million, ONLY a million? Hardly a huge take up, is it? If they included DVD sales against that figure it would make for some very scary reading.

I don't know, more stretching the truth - playing with numbers (21 million Blu-Ray game discs shipped! What else they going to ship the games they hope to sell on, floppy disc?) and spin.

Prices must drop..... someone must win, but no-one will truly know until the weeks following Christmas. If one of them sell huge numbers over the festive period, it will help make a more compelling argument. However, to me it looks lie this thing is going to roll and roll until this time next year. I predict we won't really be talking about an obvious winner until after Christmas 08.

Kolpitz
11-29-2007, 08:33 PM
You also have to ask yourself how accurate an article is that attributes Blu-Ray to Toshiba and HD-DVD to Sony, when it's actually the other way around. Nitpicking? Maybe but that's still a pretty big, glaring "typo." I'm format neutral at the moment, owning neither a PS3 or a 360 (or even an HD TV for that matter) but I'm leaning toward the side of Blu-Ray.

JW77
11-30-2007, 12:36 AM
Then there is the falasy that Playstation 3 sales equate to hi-def movie sales. Say what you want, people mostly buy Playstation 3's for gaming, not for movie watching. It's a method to play with numbers though. No-one talks about "total DVD sales" and quotes sales numbers for movie use and computer use all in one big ball. Games aren't movies.

The problem is, since there are so many more Blu-Ray players out there (including the PS3) than there are HD-DVD players that when you only see BRD outselling HD-DVD by a 2:1 margin, it looks like HD-DVD owners are the ones who actually buy HD movies. If you have ten BR players (most of which are PS3s) for every one HD-DVD player, then it doesn't look very good for the prospect of the PS3 tipping the format war in any meaningful way.

And even, most of the BR movies that sell will probably be things like 300 or POTC that would appeal to gamers. Transformers would've been FUCKING huge on BR.

On the other hand, MS seem to have hesitated. There's a new model of the Xbox 360 out (forget the name), but MS sure as hell weren't ready to ship a HD-DVD drive with it, it's still an add on. Hedging bets? Worried that they might end up with a bunch of machines out there with an obsolete drive they now have to support? Or do we believe they just wanted to keep the price down?

There's really no point in putting a HD-DVD drive in the new version of the 360. They can't start making games on HD-DVD until the next gen system comes out since they won't be playable on current systems. The only reason to do it would be so it could play HD-DVD movies, and they probably don't want to kick the cost up that much to keep an edge over the PS3.

zombi3
11-30-2007, 12:37 AM
This is my favorite part of the article:

The high definition DVD market comprises of two technologies Blu-ray, developed by Toshiba and Sony's HD DVD. :rolleyes:

The BDA has been spreading lies and misinformation since the beginning of this thing. The war has come to an end about six times in the past year, according to them.

X-human
11-30-2007, 01:09 AM
^ Yeah, that's gold and they haven't even fixed it on the article as of this time.

I wouldn't say this article in and of itself are lies and information, Blu-ray really is outselling HD-DVD discs. It doesn't matter how you cut it, those are the honest numbers. In fact over Black Friday and Thanksgiving weekend Blu-ray gained almost 73% share of the market over HD (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Disc_Sales/Industry_Trends/VideoScan:_Blu-ray_Commands_Thanksgiving_Week_Disc_Sales/1218). If HD-DVD owners are buying more than Blu-ray'ers, they have a funny way of showing it.

Lies and disinformation comes into play when a company says they're going to dump a format because it doesn't have interactivity when that feature was just to be activated and the company itself has never utilized interactivity anyways. :D

I think both formats are guilty as hell, HD-DVD would claim the win 6 times over if they could. They've already done as much with all their record breaking player sales announcements.

zombi3
11-30-2007, 01:38 AM
I think both formats are guilty as hell, HD-DVD would claim the win 6 times over if they could. They've already done as much with all their record breaking player sales announcements.

I didn't hear the HD DVD Group claim victory when Paramount dumped Blu-Ray or when Toshiba sold 90,000 players in one weekend. Sure there may have been some gloating, but never once did I hear them say the war was over.

The Blu side predicted that the release of the PS3 would bring a swift end to the format war. That didn't happen. I also read that someone from the BD Group (sorry I don't remember who) went on record claiming that the war would end in Blu's favor by September 2007. This statement was obviously made before the Paramount/Dreamworks announcement. The fact is that the "war" is not over - and probably won't be for a while - and no one knows how it will end.

I realize that neither side is perfect, but I would have more respect for Blu-ray if they issued a disclaimer with their players stating to consumers that they will be paying an arm and a leg for machines that may not support features on future releases due to an incomplete spec. I own HD DVD, but I may go neutral by the end of next year if this thing doesn't shift one way or the other. Before that happens, Blu-ray will need to produce cheaper players with complete specs so that they will be compatible with all BD's.

JW77
11-30-2007, 01:31 PM
The problem with Blu-Ray is that it's pretty much tied to a gaming rig.

UMD was hot for a while, too.

Frankly, the whole idea of a "war" between two disc based formats is stupid anyway. They're fucking five-inch discs. Just make universal players that will play DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray and be done with it. This ain't Highlander.

Rockmjd
11-30-2007, 02:03 PM
BDA said that? Isn't this guy in charge of their press releases:

http://www.nndb.com/people/972/000022906/saeed.jpg

KR~!
11-30-2007, 03:20 PM
Japanese Sales of PlayStation 3
Outpace Nintendo's Wii in November
By JAY ALABASTER
November 30, 2007 4:48 a.m.

TOKYO -- Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3 game console outsold Nintendo Co.'s Wii console in November in Japan for the first time, according to an industry survey.

In the four weeks through Nov. 25, Sony sold 183,217 PS3s in Japan, while Nintendo sold 159,193 Wii consoles, according to market researcher Enterbrain.

The data show that the PS3 has outsold Nintendo's offering for the last three weeks, indicating that recent moves by Sony may be paying off. The company introduced a new, cheaper entry model that it began selling in Japan on Nov. 11 and cut prices of existing models in October.

Read more here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119641444255609381.html

X-human
11-30-2007, 10:17 PM
^That's surprising, looks like PS3 fever finally caught in Japan. But since the Japanese don't consider the Xbox360 even an option I guess it's really the only choice to go next gen. Kinda like how Americans don't seem the consider the PS3 a choice. ;) I don't think PS3 will do was well here but I'm sure it'll do very well.

In the end I think both formats released over a year and a half too early. After all HD-DVD just approved specs for 51 GB disc, which probably won't be backwards compatible (obviously time will tell).

If Toshiba had taken their time they probably would have something with hardware specs identical to Blu-ray. With that time Blu-ray would have software specs identical to HD-DVD. I can't help but blame both equally, they're both so damn stupid.

dwatts
11-30-2007, 10:27 PM
Frankly, the whole idea of a "war" between two disc based formats is stupid anyway. They're fucking five-inch discs. Just make universal players that will play DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray and be done with it. This ain't Highlander.

I don't know, I think this is the most sensible thing written in any and all hi-def threads I've ever read.

KR~!
12-01-2007, 04:05 AM
I don't know, I think this is the most sensible thing written in any and all hi-def threads I've ever read.

This is one sweet player:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VDG0UK/

dwatts
12-01-2007, 04:12 AM
There ya go. Wonder what price tag they're putting on it, and when we can get one in R2. Also, I hope it can be made region free for DVD use.

othervoice1
12-01-2007, 04:50 AM
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/xbox-360-outsells-ps3-in-japan/18485/

this only relates to one week recently but I am still surprised

dwatts
12-01-2007, 05:01 AM
It's all about the Wii in the gaming market really, isn't it? We muddy things by combining movies interests in it. Wii has been terrific.

KR~!
12-01-2007, 03:31 PM
Blu-ray Dominates HD- DVD in US Holiday shopping

Blu-Ray pulled away from rivals as the Hi-definition media wars continue through another holiday shopping season.

Data from this past weekend - the largest retail shopping day of the year - showed that that 72.6 percent of high-definition discs purchased by consumers were Blu-ray Disc, and just 27.4 percent were HD DVD, according to Nielsen VideoScan.

The sales build on top of Blu-Ray's current leading position. Reports indicate that between until the beginning of Novevember, Blu-ray Disc's sold 2.6 million units versus 1.4 million for HD DVD .

source: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20071130/blu-ray-hd-dvd-hidef.htm

X-human
12-01-2007, 05:08 PM
I don't know, I think this is the most sensible thing written in any and all hi-def threads I've ever read.

Why spend the extra dough on a dual format player? It's actually cheaper to buy one of each. Just seems like a waste of money either way to me. They should have settled this whole thing with negotiations two years ago.

Then, if you can imagine, everyone would be happy. :fucked:

dwatts
12-01-2007, 06:40 PM
Why spend the extra dough on a dual format player? It's actually cheaper to buy one of each. Just seems like a waste of money either way to me. They should have settled this whole thing with negotiations two years ago.

Then, if you can imagine, everyone would be happy. :fucked:

But they didn't settle it two years ago. And player prices only ever drop. Wait a bit, and they'll be a reasonable alternative, imo.

KR~!
12-01-2007, 07:10 PM
Blu-Ray is the better tech, but people don't want to cough up the money for it.

Personally, I think we are all spoiled!

Oh how soon we forget.

The 1st VCR ever made cost $50,000 and that was back in 1956.

The 1st home versions were going for well over a grand and that was in the early 1980's!

VHS tapes used to cost $99 and up! We all rented them back then since no one could afford to buy them!

Remember that?

dwatts
12-01-2007, 07:48 PM
I do. But my father also remembers when people didn't have TV's, so I'm not so sure it really matters. It's today now - we're not spoiled, we just demand good value for money.

KR~!
12-01-2007, 09:33 PM
You can buy cheap crappy HD-DVD players if you want like the A2 and A3. But the good HDVD players are not that much less than the good Blu-Ray players.

KR~!
12-09-2007, 11:45 PM
A recent firmware upgrade issued by Samsung for its 1400 player made it the first Blu-ray player to unlock DTS-HD Master Audio.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BD-P1400-1080p-Blu-Ray-Player/dp/B000TME35W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1197240239&sr=8-1

othervoice1
12-09-2007, 11:58 PM
If WB decides to go exclusive blu-ray then I think things may start to slide for HD-DVD - they have made a formidable comeback but blu-ray continues to sell more movies and their players are finally starting to dip into reasonable range . If WB goes exclusive blu-ray then blu-ray will once gain have an overwhelming studio support- but if WB goes HD-DVD only then it is about dead even in studio support and the battle will continue. Remember Paramounts agreement with HD-DVD is only for one year and is already half over- so if WB picks a side and it happens to be blu-ray I see Paramount at least going back neutral by fall of next year and the that would spell the end for HD-DVD IMO. I originally supported HD-DVD and still lean towards it but I now have both an HD-DVD player (360 add on) and a PS3 so I can rent the best of both worlds. But my honest feeling is blu-ray has the edge still and I am very interested in what Warner decides to do - if anything...

KR~!
12-10-2007, 12:05 AM
read this: http://www.laptoplogic.com/news/detail.php?id=3911

KR~!
12-10-2007, 12:09 AM
and also check this out:

LITE-ON Black 12X DVD-ROM 32X CD-ROM SATA Blu-ray DVD-ROM
$189.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106227&Tpk=blu-Ray

Reverenddave
12-10-2007, 12:34 AM
Here's an interesting article:

Sound Advice: HD DVD leaves Blu-ray in the dust

Saturday, November 10, 2007
By Don Lindich

Q: Do you have a preference between HD DVD and Blu-ray? -- RHETT ELTON,
Seattle

A: I enthusiastically recommend HD DVD because it's a better product and a better proposition for consumers. Signs are showing it is going to trounce Blu-ray, and soon. Surprised? Read on.

For those looking for a single sentence explaining why go with HD DVD: It's a better thought-out, more solid product than Blu-ray, it is half the price, and picture and sound quality are identical. At less than $200 including seven or more movies, HD DVD players are a stunning value. Why pay twice the money when Blu-ray has serious issues and the movies look and sound the same?

I smile when I see people buying HD DVD players based on bargain pricing, because they are unknowingly getting the Ferrari as well! Despite its purported superiority and much higher cost, Blu-ray is the emperor with no clothes. HD DVD has been superior since day one.

HD DVD has delivered as promised from the start, receiving critical acclaim for its spectacular picture and stunning sound. Hundreds of great movies are available, with more added every week. Check out amazon.com to see the wide, varied selection.

On the other hand, at launch Blu-ray's picture quality was horrible, generating barbs such as "needs to go to the scrap heap" and "who in their right mind would ever like this?" Though they have since closed the picture quality gap, almost all Blu-ray player models announced or existing are already obsolete. They conform to an early player profile that does not support upcoming disc features. Profiles should have been finalized before product launch! Blu-ray's record has been spotty at best, and if you say it sounds like they have been fixing it as they go along, I'd say you are right.

In the words of video industry legend Joe Kane, "Blu-ray is all about greed." Though a poor value, many retailers push Blu-ray because of the higher price and higher margin. It's easy to debunk Blu-ray's purported advantages:

• "More studios support Blu-ray, including Disney ... no 'Cars' or 'Pirates' on HD DVD." Well, HD DVD has plenty of exclusive support, too, and has never lost a studio. Conversely, Paramount and DreamWorks recently abandoned Blu-ray for HD DVD, calling it "the affordable, high quality choice." So, no 'Star Trek' or 'Shrek' for Blu-ray. The answer for either camp is to get the regular DVD if you can't get the HD version.

• "Blu-ray discs have higher capacity." Another nonissue as HD DVD has enough to do the job. Plus, expensive new equipment is needed to manufacture Blu-ray discs. Existing DVD factories need little modification to press HD DVDs, meaning lower costs from movie studio to consumer.

• "More Blu-ray players have been sold and more companies make them." Well, almost all of the "Blu-ray players" sold so far are Playstation 3 game consoles that happen to have a Blu-ray drive in them. Many, if not most of them, are used solely as game machines. HD DVD has the lead in stand-alone players. As for more manufacturers, what's the difference if there are one or 10 obsolete, expensive Blu-ray models on the market?

• "Blu-ray will win because it has sold more movies to date." Another nonissue because even combined, Blu-ray and HD DVD disc sales are an infinitesimal piece of the DVD pie, a few grains of sand in a sandbox. Blu-ray's tiny numerical lead will be obliterated soon anyway because kingmaker Wal-Mart has embraced HD DVD. In early November, Wal-Mart placed HD DVD ads on primetime TV and ran a promotion estimated to have sold well over 50,000 players in a single day. Other retailers showed increased HD DVD player sales in Wal-Mart's wake, with the events making national news.

For more, read the prophetic "Blu-ray: Can it survive?" at www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm. Dated July 14, 2006, it is right on the money!

With the premium offering at a lower price, DreamWorks and Paramount's abandonment of Blu-ray, and support from extremely powerful places, HD DVD, with its growing momentum, is showing signs of turning into a tidal wave this holiday season.

I know consumers are smart enough to see which way to go, and they're going to love their choice. Nice to get the best for half the price, isn't it?

Don Lindich is a national columnist and creator of the "Digital Made Easy" book series. Send him your questions and read past columns at www.soundadviceblog.com.

First published on November 10, 2007 at 12:00 am

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07314/832733-96.stm?cmpid=business.xml

RyanPC
12-10-2007, 12:48 AM
Gee, I wonder how Luna feels about this issue?

X-human
12-10-2007, 01:04 AM
I think Warner will remain neutral, and Paramount has an 18 month agreement. They'll be HD-DVD exclusive till after next Holiday season. For the price Toshiba paid, they should be. ;) Call it a hunch but I think Universal may go neutral 'round the time of the upcoming fiscal year. It seems the most logical, especially for Universal.

There's no doubt about it though, Warner is keeping HD-DVD afloat. I actually don't think the Paramount/Dreamworks deal helped HD-DVD much. Transformers has been overtaken by Spider-Man 3 which is now climbing up the charts from its mediocre opening. Considering SM3 is competing with itself as a give away in new PS3's I think that's damn impressive.

It was looking bleak for HD-DVD last month with consistent 70/30ish sales weeks a couple times in a row, but the week before lasts was back to 58/42. But look at what was released:

November 27, 2007
Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy (HD-DVD)
Hot Rod (HD-DVD)
Mr. Bean's Holiday (HD-DVD)
Old School (HD-DVD)
<VS>
Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade (Blu-ray)
I Know Who Killed Me (Blu-ray)
Paprika (Blu-ray)

So Blu-ray beat HD-DVD's Will Farrel hits with anime and a box office bomb. That was probably HD-DVD's best chance for the season. We'll have to see how Pirates did when results come next Friday. I doubt Bourne Ultimatum will make much headway. The Harry Potter HD-DVDs have more extras than the Blu-ray disks, so we'll have to see how they come head to head. I suspect it'll be much like the situation with 300.

PS3's are finally selling now, eclipsing anything Toshiba can possibly do.

Reverenddave
12-10-2007, 01:20 AM
I think an interesting factor in Blu-Ray will take effect once there are more PS3 games. If PS3 owners are buying $60 games that take dozens of hours to play, will they have extra money or time to buy/watch Blu-Ray movies?

I picked up a PS3, before looking into their game situation. So far I've only bought 3 games, and only one was good enough to play all they way through. I wish there were more good games.

Right now I mostly use the PS3 for Blu-Rays. But once some good games come out, I'll start buying them. For every one PS3 game I buy, I won't have that cash to use on 3-4 Blu-Rays. And for every PS3 game I play all the way through, that's a couple nights I'm not going to be watching movies.

Reverenddave
12-10-2007, 03:04 AM
It looks like HD-DVD standalone players outsold Blu-Ray standalone players on Black Friday, despite the overwhelming amount of Blu-Ray ads:

Sticker Shock
December 7, 2007

Despite mounds of advertising, Blu-ray standalones proved weaker sellers than their Toshiba HD DVD counterparts during the Black Friday week, according to DisplaySearch research. During a Friday Webinar, DisplaySearch's Paul Erickson explained that price is the overall motivating factor when buying standalones, beating other considerations such as brand or features. Blu-ray scored the most circular mentions in the 3 weeks leading up to Black Friday, compared to HD DVD players getting their lowest ad representation in that frame prior to Nov. 25. For the Black Friday day specifically, DisplaySearch counted 80% BD ads, and 20% HD DVD. Yet the relatively cheapest Toshiba HD DVDs scored the largest share of standalone sales, at 62%. Best selling Toshiba model was the HD A3, which many retailers offered for $199. Hottest BD standalones were the entry level Sony and Samsung players, which retailers marked to $399.

Still, Toshiba can't really throw a party just yet. High-def players in general aren't really registering yet as a major consumer electronics category, according to DisplaySearch. People are more likely to see trendier GPS systems and digital photo frames under their trees. DisplaySearch blames problematic retail merchandising of HD DVD and Blu-ray players as hurting high-def hardware sales potential.

"There is not a lot of evidence for a high-def revolution at retail outside of TVs," DisplaySearch's Stephen Baker said during the same Webinar.

http://www.videobusiness.com/blog/830000483/post/850018485.html

X-human
12-10-2007, 03:14 AM
Well PS3 isn't going to carry Blu-ray for the long haul, I'm sure eventually the goal is to have standalone players take over. Just as the Trojans didn't remain in their wooden horse BD will not rely on PS3 alone. Samsung has already released a player cheaper than the cheapest PS3 for example.

As for a PS3 owner having less time or money for Blu-ray once the gaming picks up, I think they are mutually exclusive enough to a pretty good extent. A gamer will probably maintain a steady level of gaming in ratio to movie watching when we're talking net time. This is because whatever gaming they're not doing on the PS3 is probably balanced out by game play on other systems like the Xbox360, Wii, PS2 and PC. System usage may change but overall the amount of time spent on gaming would probably stay the same. Expenditures are probably the same way.

As for the "Sound Advice" article, basically all he's saying is "Is too. Is not." It's just conjecture, dated conjecture at that as Profile 1.1 and BD-J activation have already come and gone on Blu-ray catching it up to HD-DVD's interactivity. His only real true point (which actually he doesn't specifically make but I'll read between the lines to help him out) is that LAN activity only remains, which apparently members of the BD group are reluctant to include. Disney wants it so it won't be far. Hopefully the PS3 will utilize BD-Live and knock some sense into the BD group.

At the end of the day HD-DVD copy protection has been crack. Blu-ray's BD+ has not. So it's severely doubtful Fox or Disney will switch sides and of course Sony, Columbia Pictures and MGM will go down with the ship. It's just good business.

Reverenddave
12-10-2007, 03:46 AM
At the end of the day HD-DVD copy protection has been crack. Blu-ray's BD+ has not. So it's severely doubtful Fox or Disney will switch sides and of course Sony, Columbia Pictures and MGM will go down with the ship. It's just good business.

I haven't kept on top of HD/BR ripping, but I'm pretty sure BD+ was cracked almost immediately after it came out.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/22/bd-crack-released

KR~!
12-10-2007, 01:24 PM
another article:

LG Electronics has unveiled two kinds of Blu-ray discs ― Blu-ray disc rewritable (BD-RE) and Blu-ray disc recordable (BD-R).

The discs have a storage capacity of 25 gigabytes, making it possible to store a full high-definition movie or even save contents compatible with six DVDs, according to the company.

The discs are protected with a special hard coat technology layer to shield the recording surface from scratches, dust and fingerprints, which sometimes cause playback errors.

The write-once single sided BD-R model and the rewritable version will sell for 13,000 won and 20,000 won, respectively.

``With this latest addition of recordable Blu-ray media, our category expertise allows us to help our customers navigate the full line-ups from PCs to drives, guaranteeing they have the right products at retail stores,’’ an official from LG’s Recording Media & Chemitronics said.

``We will sell the products in Europe including Germany and France, the United States, Australia and Japan starting Dec. 20,’’ the official said.

A month ago, the Blu-ray Disc Association said that high-definition movie DVDs in Blu-ray format have outsold the rival HD DVD standard in Europe this year, selling more than one million and taking up nearly 75 percent of all high-definition movie discs.

The association also said Blu-ray owned 97 percent of the high definition recorder market in Japan led by Sony, Matsushita and Toshiba, while the remaining 3 percent went to HD DVD recorders.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2007/12/123_15197.html

dwatts
12-10-2007, 01:36 PM
You know, I wouldn't but the LG brand at all. They're known as a very cheap product, and are not well respected. I saw them mostly in Germany, but you can get them in the UK. It's not a brand I'm excited about, and basically don't trust it.

KR~!
12-10-2007, 07:31 PM
You know, I wouldn't but the LG brand at all. They're known as a very cheap product, and are not well respected. I saw them mostly in Germany, but you can get them in the UK. It's not a brand I'm excited about, and basically don't trust it.

I feel the same way about Toshiba, I mean they are not known as a high end company. For HDDVD to have a legit chance, they need to have other companies besides Toshiba make players.

X-human
12-11-2007, 09:14 AM
I haven't kept on top of HD/BR ripping, but I'm pretty sure BD+ was cracked almost immediately after it came out.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/22/bd-crack-released

Apparently they created a work around by utilizing the already cracked AACS (http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=10289), so they've exploited a bug in BD+ that'll probably be fixed soon. They still claim to have cracked BD+ itself but haven't released that yet. We'll have to see how BD+ adapts as that's what it's specifically designed to do.

Oh, and the best part of that thread is this:They did with AACS, but why? They had to or else their product would quickly lose value in the market place. Everyone wants to rip the latest movies. In this case, releasing was in their best interest.That's right, if hackers didn't crack software to pirate no one would buy retail discs and companies would lose money... Wait a minute... :rolleyes:

dwatts
12-11-2007, 09:32 AM
:D It shows how far things have gone when people support one format over the other based on whether it can be pirated, doesn't it? If piracy is of the highest concern they'll move to digital download ASAP and whack on some obscene encryption restrictions that could change every few microseconds if necessary.

X-human
12-11-2007, 08:17 PM
Warner's new strategy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=953612).

:D Goddamn funniest thing.

KR~!
12-12-2007, 01:22 AM
Warner's new strategy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=953612).

:D Goddamn funniest thing.

:lol:

othervoice1
12-12-2007, 03:49 AM
Warner's new strategy.

Goddamn funniest thing.


Unbelievable......Funny until it happens to me!:D

othervoice1
12-12-2007, 03:54 AM
Anybody own any of this "Dbox" furniture or whatever it is? is it expensive and is it any good?

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/D-Box/Disney/Industry_Trends/Disney,_D-Box__Ready_to_Rumble_on_Blu-ray/1225

Reverenddave
12-12-2007, 07:06 AM
I don't get this Sony CEO. The Blu PR guys have been sending out weekly press releases all year long, saying that Blu-Ray has already won the war. Apparently this guy isn't getting the memos.

Sony CEO Damns Blu-ray With Faint Praise -- Again
CEO Howard Stringer says it's unclear which high-def disc format war will win.
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (December 11, 2007) -- Sony's Howard Stringer is at it again.

The chief executive of Sony, the top supporter of the Blu-ray high-def DVD format, tells the Associated Press that he doesn't know whether Blu-ray or HD DVD will win the format war.

Stringer said he believes Blu-ray is winning, but suggested that his company's format fave is hardly running away with the race.

"We have momentum," he told the wire service this week. "But that's all we have at the moment."

Last month, Stringer said in a speech in New York that the battle between Blu-ray and HD DVD had become a "stalemate." (Blu-ray and HD DVD are rival formats competing for the new high-def disc audience.)

Saying it's a "difficult fight," Stringer even openly speculated what Sony would do if HD DVD prevailed. (Basically, stop including Blu-ray players in Play Station 3 game consoles.)

The comments ignited a storm of controversy at blogs and Internet message boards with some posters saying that Stringer seemed to be throwing in the towel.

The Sony chief seemed to try to make amends a few weeks later in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter.

He told the publication that Blu-ray has the "scale" to eventually defeat HD DVD.

The Sony executive noted that four major studios, including Disney and Fox, are exclusively supporting Blu-ray over HD DVD. (Two majors are backing HD DVD exclusively; studios that back one format over another only release titles in that format.)

But now Stringer appears to have reversed course once again, saying all that Blu-ray has is "momentum."

Stringer's remarks are at odds with other Blu-ray backers such as executives at Panasonic who have said Blu-ray has already won.

His latest comments could fuel more speculation that Sony would be open to a single format negotiation with Toshiba, the leading supporter of HD DVD.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/stringer121107.htm

17thJuggalo
12-13-2007, 02:25 PM
Every time I glance the front page, I see this topic and think "Is someone posting about the war in Iraq being over?" Then I look and its about Hi-Def discs and I kick myself. :mad:

X-human
12-15-2007, 12:09 AM
Here's the new numbers from Nielsen. (Yes I stole this from someone else on another forum)

Titles Released Dec. 4, 2007

Blu-ray:
20 Million Miles to Earth (Sony)
Cast Away (Fox)
Elton 60 - Live at Madison Square Garden (Universal Music)
Masters of Horror: Season One - Vol. Four (Starz)
Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox)
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (Buena Vista)
Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid (Eagle Rock)
Superbad (Sony)

HD-DVD:
Arctic Tale (Paramount)
Battlestar Galactica: Season One (Universal)
Queen Rock Montreal & Live Aid (Eagle Rock)

Percentages
BD / HD
76 / 24 Week
65 / 35 Year
62 / 38 Since Inception

Top 10 Titles
1. POTC AWE BD 100.00
2. Superbad BD 37.46
3. Planet Earth HD 12.38
4. Spider-Man 3 BD 10.51
5. Transformers HD 7.49
6. Live Free or Die Hard BD 7.40
7. PE BD 6.77
8. POTC DMC BD 6.70
9. Ratatouille BD 6.69
10. 300 BD 5.36

Number of Titles in Top 10
BD:8
HD:2

I bought 20 Million Miles to Earth and Masters of Horror: Season One - Vol. Four, neither made it into Top 10. :( No matter who wins fans like me will always be the minority.

Anyways BD keeps getting closer and closer to 80% sales. In fact I think this is the closest it's ever been. I have to wonder; at what point do retailers call it quits? 80%? 90%? How long does it need to be sustained?

It's also interesting that Planet Earth remains above and beyond HD-DVD's best seller. Logically, this isn't exactly a mainstream title (due to content and price) so I think it shows HD discs in general remains in the niche of home theater enthusiasts. It also seems to show, I think, a lack of interest from HD-DVD fans in their format's other titles. BD stand by's are both Pirates, Casino Royal, and 300 (which I think people go BD on because of the lower price). While HD-DVD's got The Matrix series, Batman Begins, 300 and plenty of other long standing titles to fall back on yet nobody seems to.

Surprising to me at least is Spider-man 3's bounce back to remain in the top 5 outselling Transformers. Considering it's competing with free handouts in PS3's and sales of Spider-man boxsets I really can't figure out its resurgence after the less than stellar opening week sales. Also Shrek 3's low sales is rather surprising as well, probably stemming from the incorrect but widely held view that animation doesn't benefit from HD.

Reverenddave
12-15-2007, 12:55 AM
Anyways BD keeps getting closer and closer to 80% sales. In fact I think this is the closest it's ever been. I have to wonder; at what point do retailers call it quits? 80%? 90%? How long does it need to be sustained?

It's not surprising that BR got 76% of the market that week. They put up POTC3 and Superbad against HD's Arctic Tale. HD has really dropped the ball in terms of software this quarter. Only 3 big HD exclusives in a couple months (Transformers, Shrek 3 & Bourne Ultimatum). BR has one huge title after another. Add in BR's weekly B1G1 sales, and I'm really surprised their market share isn't higher.

But on the weeks without any big releases (like the week before), the software numbers are much closer (58%/42%). And given how poorly both formats are selling, you're probably only talking a few thousand discs.

The one thing keeping HD alive right now is their low hardware prices. But if they want to survive past the holiday season, they'll need to improve the software offerings. I hope HD gives the studios a swift kick in the ass. They need better titles and lower disc prices.

othervoice1
12-15-2007, 02:40 AM
That Sony CEO is cracking me up- wonder how long he will still have his job....lol

X-human
12-15-2007, 03:12 AM
Add in BR's weekly B1G1 sales, and I'm really surprised their market share isn't higher.

Math is not a friend to this statement.

None of the top 10 are in B1G1 sales. Outside the top ten you're already talking titles having well less then 10,000 units sold. If PotC:AWE sales numbers are 160,000 as reported, then 300 BR which is number ten only sold bout 8,500 units. This reflects the ratios for the week when sales numbers from Spider-man 3's were known.

Anything sold off during the B1G1 sales are in reality a drop in the bucket. The math does not add up for B1G1 sales being a difference maker beyond, frankly, keeping Blu-ray owners happy and HD-DVD owners unhappy.

You look just at the ratio's of unit sold in the top 10 you've already got the numbers matching total sale ratios. Anything off the top ten chart is not moving in volumes that can make a difference. The curve is that steep, slot #10 already is 95% less than slot #1.

Even at best HD-DVD's third highest selling title would be less than 95% of Blu-ray's best. Overall numbers are equally as abysmal I'm afraid. Looking at that trend back catalog titles are probably still selling in the hundreds even on opening week. I wouldn't be surprised if 20 Million Miles to Earth was in the low hundreds, very low hundreds most probably since it's ALREADY in B1G1 sales.

Life of Brian may even of had less than 100 pre-orders, so Sony included that in B1G1 sales too. This would also account for the delay, they decide not to waste the disc production time of the holiday season if pre-order were so low.

If BR is doing the best and their catalog titles are in these dire straights we're talking bleaker sums on HD-DVD.

Reverenddave
12-15-2007, 04:25 AM
Anything sold off during the B1G1 sales are in reality a drop in the bucket. The math does not add up for B1G1 sales being a difference maker beyond, frankly, keeping Blu-ray owners happy and HD-DVD owners unhappy.

That's the point I was trying to make. I'm surprised these weekly B1G1 sales aren't having a bigger impact on Blu-Ray's market share. With these B1G1 sales you can pick up BR titles for $10 or less. The 4-disc boxes were recently under $7 a movie.

If the High-Def market dominance is only decided by a handful of titles. Then the market share is at the whim of whatever high profile titles are released in a given week.

BR is dominating the market right now, not for their B1G1 sale prices or excellent catalog titles, but because of their recent string of big name exclusives (which HD doesn't have). And that's surprising, because I think their frequent software sales and nice catalog releases are BR's best selling points.

It'll be interesting to see what happens after Christmas. BR won't have any more big Summer blockbusters to plump up their market share. Of course, HD still has a lousy post-holiday line-up. But I don't think we'll be seeing the same 3-1 blowout each week.

JW77
12-15-2007, 05:50 PM
Do the sales figures include sales to rental outlets? Blockbuster is BR exclusive, I believe. I could also see BR being more popular with rentals, where you would have people renting the discs to watch on their PS3s.

I'm still of the mind that, even though BR is selling more titles than HD-DVD, that since most of the units out there are PS3s that the support is still "soft" and the bottom can fall out when gamers get bored with watching movies on their PS3s and more games eventually start coming out.

And we also have to remember that both formats are still competing with DVD. DVD still outsell HD something like 50:1. It's going to be a long time before BR and/or HD-DVD start making inroads there. Realistically, how many people out there understand the difference between interlaced and progressive? 480, 720, and 1080? What HDMI means? Christ, people are still buying fullscreen DVDs.

X-human
12-16-2007, 09:31 PM
I'm also more worried about HD discs flat lining in general than the format war for all the points mentioned. I feel the format war is holding the market back. I know personally I'll be buying less now that my 10% off Amazon deal is coming to and end.

Here are some interesting Planet Earth numbers I'll steal again:

As of Aug. 5th, 2007
PE HD DVD 52,900
PE Blu-ray 44,700

As of Oct. 21, 2007
PE HD DVD 70,900
PE Blu-ray 68,400

While PE has still sold more overall on HD-DVD, Blu-ray has made significant gains and sold better during this period (the only period we have numbers for). It makes sense now why Warner worked with Samsung to give away copies of the first PE disc with their new player. Warner's probably looking to sell about as many Blu-ray copies as the market ratio indicates Blu-ray should sell more of. Very clever, they're planting seeds no doubt about that.

I know I use to say Warner's going to remain neutral, but with them working more with BD on both B1G1 and player incentives it seems they're more actively trying to test the market than I originally anticipated. The recent SNAFU with Harry Potter is also showing the downside of remaining neutral, creating extra expenses, bad public image and just in general headaches all around. Along with Warner's recent online store troubles it's especially interesting that many (not all) of the problem discs are coming straight from their online store, placing more strain specifically on that department.

As I've also said I have a feeling Universal may go neutral, they've indicated they feel pressure to do so and have said they're only remaining HD-DVD because at the time they were the only HD-DVD only studio. Now they're not, back catalog titles are doing poorly (the vast majority of their output), and Toshiba spited them by paying Paramount/Dreamworks LOTS of money. They probably had a contract which only lasted till the end of this Holiday season (like Paramount's only lasts till after next year's Holiday). Universals' strongest releases are still beat out by BD's weakest. Universals weak release schedule, and almost nonexistent 2008 schedule, is also very telling. Universal is showing a total lack of effort with HD-DVD.

While HD-DVD may not be doing "bad" enough I'd say they're not doing "good" enough to justify their existence. BD-Live is being utilized in January by Lionsgate and Sony, Profile 1.1 is in place, BD-Java has been utilized since May especially by Disney. Both Disney and Fox have had best week release sellers this season, they've gotta be happy. 300's on BD is still Warner's best seller (despite less extras), PE on BD is now outshining its once mighty HD-DVD brother, Warner's partner in crime New Line likes region coding, and Harry Potter's becoming a neutrality headache instead of easy money.

While Toshiba has worked wonders I still think Blu-ray looks like they're in the best position after this season.

othervoice1
12-16-2007, 11:07 PM
I agree that HD-DVD has made one hell of a comeback and can win this thing- but that Blu-ray still has the edge and the looming decision by Warner is very big. Just my personal feeling is I give the edge to blu-ray in the war 60-40 right now- maybe even 55-45. What Warner and maybe Universal decide to do can even this up or give HD-DVD an edge or almost bury HD-DVD

zombi3
12-17-2007, 03:07 AM
Based on what I've been reading, we might know the winner at CES in January. It seems that one of the following will happen:

A) Warner goes Blu; Universal goes neutral.

B) Warner goes Red; Fox and/or Disney goes neutral.

It's still all speculation at this point based on rumors, so I'm afraid we'll just have to wait and see what happens. It does seem clear, however, that WB will likely decide the outcome.

Damed
12-17-2007, 06:16 PM
WB holds all the cards.

From what I've seen and read, I'd be extremely surprised if they went blu.

KR~!
12-17-2007, 07:15 PM
WB holds all the cards.

From what I've seen and read, I'd be extremely surprised if they went blu.

besides the fact that they made the statement at a Blu-Ray con?!?

Damed
12-17-2007, 08:16 PM
besides the fact that they made the statement at a Blu-Ray con?!?

Really, now.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20071212063346_Warner_Home_Video_Denies_Exclusive_ Blu_Ray_Support_Strategy_Shift.html

http://www.neowin.net/news/main/07/12/13/warner-denies-plans-to-go-blu-ray-exclusive

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/13/warner-vp-denies-blu-ray-exclusive-which-is-nice/




“We have made no decision to change our present policy which is to produce in both HD DVD and Blu-ray,” said Jim Noonan, Warner Bros. senior vice president and general manager, reports Format War Central web-site.

Late last week an executive from Lionsgate studio said that, based on a rumour, Warner Home Video plans to switch to Blu-ray and abandon HD DVD format. Potentially, such move can provide Blu-ray approximately 70% of new releases, which is likely to force other backers of HD DVD to axe support of the format. But Warner Brothers, which is currently the only major studio to support both Blu-ray and HD DVD, was fast enough to deny possible switch to a single high-definition format.

“Our position hasn’t changed and certainly any comments that were published in the U.S. were not intended to suggest that we had changed our stance.

Damed
12-17-2007, 08:18 PM
Oh, and:


For those interested, here is the CES schedule


Sunday, January 6
8:00 AM - 8:45 AM: LG Electronics
9:00 AM - 9:45 AM: Pioneer Electronics
10:00 AM - 10:45 AM: Toshiba
11:00 AM - 11:45 AM: Panasonic
12:00 PM - 12:45 PM: Sharp Electronics
1:00 PM - 1:45 PM: Philips Consumer Electronics
2:00 PM - 2:45 PM: Samsung Electronics
4:15 PM - 5:15 PM: Sony Electronics
8:30 PM - 10:30 PM: HD DVD Promotion Group

Monday, January 7
12:00 PM - 1:00 PM: Hitachi Ltd./Hitachi America
5:00 PM - 6:00 PM: Blu-ray Press Conference

HD DVD is going Sunday, right in time for Mondays newspaper. Its also 2 hours vs. Blu-rays 1 hour. Someone one Blu-ray.com has confirmed Warner will be present at the HD DVD group presentation, but has yet to announce about Blu-ray.

KR~!
12-18-2007, 01:50 AM
It's all rumors now, so we will all wait and see.

Sony Blu-ray Player Dips Below $300 Mark

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Circuit_City/Best_Buy/Amazon/Sony/High-Def_Retailing/Sony_Blu-ray_Player_Dips_Below_$300_Mark/1272

FastMac offers 4x dual layer Blu-Ray drive for Mac
http://www.macworld.com/article/131103/2007/12/fastmac.html?t=223

PS3 2.10 Update Gets Blu-Ray 1.1, DivX
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/681605/PS3_210_Update_Gets_BluRay_11_DivX.html

Damed
12-18-2007, 04:43 AM
It's all rumors now, so we will all wait and see.



That I agree 100% with.

othervoice1
12-18-2007, 05:13 AM
Wow some very interesting info on the CES

X-human
12-19-2007, 03:27 AM
Well Warner screwed the pooch yet again on another BD release, the 5th disk of the Blade Runner set on many copies does not have the Workprint but is instead a duplicate of the Final Cut disk (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=957384).

Harry Potter was kinda funny, but this is getting just plain stupid on Warner's part. With all the attention on them and these multiple gaffs they have to be feeling really stupid right now. It's possible this is a BD manufacturing mistake, but after the Harry Potter problem, which was clearly Warner's fault, I'm figuring it was on Warner's end.

I haven't even got my August pre-order from Warner direct of A Clockwork Orange or 2001: A Space Odyssey yet! Bastards.

On a related note, I got to hook my PS3 up to a 16 foot screen and let me tell you, it was gorgeous. We watched scenes from A Christmas Story, PotC: DMC and The Fountain. Christmas Story looked great, reviews say it lacks details but at that scale you can see it's all there. PotC was of course amazing. In the wideshots of the sea the horizon was a perfect line. The Fountain I only briefly watched but was less impressed somewhat. The space scenes were OK and the modern time stuff was unremarkable. None of the Aztec scenes were at chapter stops so I didn't see them.

Thursday we'll be watching Christmas Story in full. Should be great.

KR~!
12-23-2007, 04:54 PM
It will be a lot less confusing when they only support one format ;)


also...

Porn industry snuggling up to Blu-ray

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35363/98/

rp108
12-23-2007, 07:10 PM
If you go by the BDA, the format war has been over about 10 times now proclaiming Blu-ray the winner. Yet, HD DVD is still here gaining studio support (while Blu-ray is losing support), more stand alone players being sold, and a growing library of movies.

I would take what the BDA procalims with a grain of salt.

Rockmjd
01-04-2008, 10:22 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/produc...s-blu-ray_N.htm


Warner Bros. will back only Blu-ray

NEW YORK/LOS ANGELES2008-01-04 20:22:49 GMT (Reuters) (Reuters) — Time Warner's Warner Bros. studio Friday said it would exclusively release high-definition DVDs in Sony Corp's Blu-ray format, dealing a big blow to Toshiba Corp's rival HD DVD technology.

Warner Bros, Hollywood's biggest seller of DVDs, representing about 18 to 20% of sales in the United States, was one of the few studios that backed both formats.

All sides of the format war had agreed it was confusing to consumers and a stumbling block for a potential multibillion-dollar industry.

Total DVD unit sales fell 4.5% in 2007, the first major year-over-year decline since the disc format debuted in 1997, according to Adams Media Research. Sales fell 4.8% to $15.7 billion.

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers," Warner Bros Chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement.

News Corp's 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney, and Lionsgate are among studios backing the Blu-ray format. Viacom's Paramount studios and General Electric's NBC Universal release movies in HD DVD format.

Warner said it would continue releasing in the HD DVD format until the end of May, although those releases would follow the standard DVD and Blu-ray releases.

(Reporting by Kenneth Li in New York and Bob Tourtellotte in Los Angeles, editing by Gerald E. McCormick)

Has the fat lady sung?

SaviniFan
01-04-2008, 10:31 PM
Well after that announcement it looks quite bleak for HD-DVD. Too bad as it is a good format and one that I opted for since the entry price was reasonable. I still intend to buy desirable titles in the format for as long as they make them. Once Blu-ray player prices drop then I will go that route as well.

X-human
01-04-2008, 10:36 PM
Here's the official press release: http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/pr/0,20812,1700383,00.html

I'm surprised by this, I figured Warner would stay neutral and Universal would go neutral. Now Universal certainly will, if they're contractually able to. The reason I'm surprised is because it is exactly what Warner says it is, they've personally decided to end the format war. It takes guts to do that. Warner's got almost as much balls as Sony.

This isn't quite a death nail though. HD-DVD has until May to really do something to prove they're for real. Warner's been carrying HD-DVD, plain and simple. What could Toshiba possibly do? There's probably something, but I couldn't dream it up.

JW77
01-04-2008, 11:25 PM
Hooray for over-priced players and software!

Reverenddave
01-05-2008, 12:23 AM
This'll probably be the end to deals on the Blu-Ray side. I'll miss those weekly B1G1 sales.

On the plus side, HD-DVDs will probably get cheaper as stores start to burn off inventory and owners sell their collections.

eric_angelus
01-05-2008, 01:37 AM
I just got my Blu-Ray player a week ago...so I guess I did not make a bad decision

KR~!
01-05-2008, 01:45 AM
Well, I started this thread and all signs pointed to this, so finally it is official. Now how much more time is left in those HD-DVD contracts that Microsoft paid so much money for? Expect another big announcement soon thereafter!

Reverenddave
01-05-2008, 01:55 AM
Well, I started this thread and all signs pointed to this, so finally it is official. Now how much more time is left in those HD-DVD contracts that Microsoft paid so much money for? Expect another big announcement soon thereafter!

The Paramount/Dreamworks contract was reportedly for 18 months. So there's a least another year left.

KR~!
01-05-2008, 02:01 AM
So the nail in the coffin will come by the end of 2009...

Also Apple's Mac computers will now fully support Blu-Ray :
http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9839731-37.html?tag=nefd.top

Regurgitate
01-05-2008, 02:28 AM
The Paramount/Dreamworks contract was reportedly for 18 months. So there's a least another year left.

Hopefully there is a clause in the contact that covers this kind of situation.

I just wish I had quit buying HD DVDs sooner.

X-human
01-05-2008, 03:42 AM
Hopefully there is a clause in the contact that covers this kind of situation.

As smart as businesses are today I'm sure there is. There may be an opt out option after a certain period of time, I hope for Paramount's sake 3-6 months. Hell Toshiba may even want the money back if they themselves see no future in HD-DVD at this point.

The psychological impact is huge, half if not more of the Christmas shoppers are going to be doing returns I'm sure. There's no comparison to Paramount/Dreamworks, this signals the end of HD-DVD to probably 90% or more of the HDM market. Ebay's already probably being flooded.

It'll be interesting to see what HD-DVD has to say at CES. It'll be somber I'm sure. How can you convince the public to buy a player just for Paramount and Universal movies?

Damed
01-05-2008, 04:08 AM
Hard to say no to half a billion dollars.

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/04/warner-swayed-by-500-million-from-the-bda/

Hellbilly
01-05-2008, 05:25 AM
Like so many, I was on the fence: Blue-ray or HD?
My choice shall be Blue now. Aiming to get things started by summer.

othervoice1
01-05-2008, 06:37 AM
Wow this is huge- I dont know if HD-DVD can recover from this one......

zombi3
01-05-2008, 07:07 AM
Like so many, I was on the fence: Blue-ray or HD?
My choice shall be Blue now. Aiming to get things started by summer.

Let's hope we have 2.0 compliant players by this summer then, or you'll be missing out on all that "next generation interactivity" promised in those Blu-ray ads.

Noto
01-05-2008, 08:16 AM
Hard to say no to half a billion dollars.

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/04/warner-swayed-by-500-million-from-the-bda/

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner:_No_Payoff_for_Move_to_Blu-ray/1327

Sam
01-05-2008, 09:32 AM
The loss of Warner, New Line, and HBO in 24 hours... WOW. Looks like a checkmate to me. I've always been rooting for the underdog, but HD really has little chance of surviving that atomic 'Blu' bomb.

dwatts
01-05-2008, 11:54 AM
Well, I went Blu over christmas, despite the sales figures in Europe claiming HD is winning. I hated to do it with region coding, but the worst-case scenario is I'll just have to have two players.

KR~!
01-05-2008, 03:26 PM
Well, I went Blu over christmas, despite the sales figures in Europe claiming HD is winning. I hated to do it with region coding, but the worst-case scenario is I'll just have to have two players.

Blu-Ray is winning in Europe by a lot:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/features/film/e3i3b664324ba4ea5c03e0924ea906b3ecd?imw=Y

VenicuS
01-05-2008, 03:40 PM
It'll be interesting to see what HD-DVD has to say at CES. It'll be somber I'm sure. How can you convince the public to buy a player just for Paramount and Universal movies?

Looks like the HD-DVD camp won't be saying anything (http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/04/hd-dvd-group-cancels-ces-press-conference-in-wake-of-warner-anno/)at CES. That certainly doesn't bode well for them. Ah well, my HD A2 still works, I can still watch the HD discs I have now, and I'll start saving my pennies for a PS3, I suppose. I've been wanting to play "Heavenly Sword" anyways.

Regurgitate
01-05-2008, 04:28 PM
So maybe Synapse Films will switch to Blu Ray from HD DVD now? :rolleyes:

X-human
01-05-2008, 06:31 PM
Looks like the HD-DVD camp won't be saying anything (http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/04/hd-dvd-group-cancels-ces-press-conference-in-wake-of-warner-anno/)at CES. That certainly doesn't bode well for them. Ah well, my HD A2 still works, I can still watch the HD discs I have now, and I'll start saving my pennies for a PS3, I suppose. I've been wanting to play "Heavenly Sword" anyways.

They canceled the Sunday press conference, but as far as I'm aware they haven't pulled out of CES yet. "We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps." In other words, they're frantically asking Microsoft to save their asses.

Microsoft on the other hand probably likes what they're hearing from fanboys like this one on AVSForum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12694241#post12694241), "Even though I am in the HD-DVD camp, I still watched PotC: At World's End in beautiful HD in my HT. How? HD OnDemand at a cost of $3.99. I will just drop support for HDM completely and go the all digital route. Eventually I would get a VuDu or something like it."

While I think digital downloads is the eventual future, at this point in time it isn't as good as HD discs. I know this because I have HD OnDemand too. There's no comparison, HD discs are much higher quality. Plus OnDemand doesn't have interactive features even comparable to what SD DVD can do yet.

I'm confident Blu-ray will be viable for quite awhile.

Jeremy
01-05-2008, 07:46 PM
So maybe Synapse Films will switch to Blu Ray from HD DVD now? :rolleyes:

Huh? Synapse hasn't released anything on either of the hi-def formats.

Reverenddave
01-06-2008, 12:30 AM
I'm confident Blu-ray will be viable for quite awhile.

I agree that Blu-Ray will be around for a while. But I don't think it'll ever become mainstream. It'll enjoy a healthy life as a niche format for HD enthusiasts. Much bigger than laserdiscs, but never approaching the levels of standard DVD.

And for the record, I felt the same about HD-DVD. I never believed that ending the format war would result in mass acceptance.

KR~!
01-06-2008, 12:42 AM
I agree that Blu-Ray will be around for a while. But I don't think it'll ever become mainstream. It'll enjoy a healthy life as a niche format for HD enthusiasts. Much bigger than laserdiscs, but never approaching the levels of standard DVD.

And for the record, I felt the same about HD-DVD. I never believed that ending the format war would result in mass acceptance.

maybe or maybe millions of people were doing the same thing as most people here waiting for a clear winner before upgrading.

Livingdead102
01-06-2008, 07:32 AM
I can't speak for most people, but the $1000 necessary just to replace my current setup (that more than satisfies my needs) with a low-end HD setup, plus the $30 a movie to refill my library, is what's keeping me back. I would guess, though, that most consumers feel the same way.

Grim
01-06-2008, 09:05 PM
I work at an electronics retailer and from what I've seen most of the general public is ready to embrace one of the HD formats, most either going Blu-ray or waiting for a clear winner. I don't think it'll be a niche market; there just needs to be a clear winner before the public drops the money.

Also I think we're looking at it as "I need to buy a $1500 HDTV to watch my favorite flicks in HD." I think most of the general public getting involved in the HD game are seeing it more as "Okay, I just bought this $1500 TV set, why don't I just spend another $300 for a blu-ray player and start buying flicks on that." From what I've noticed, the masses are jumping head first into buying HD sets, a lot of them because of their mistaken belief that in February 2009, high definition will take over, not the truth that they're just ceasing all analog signals.

rp108
01-06-2008, 09:26 PM
For me, business as usual. I will keep buying DVD and HD DVD. I bought a Blu-ray player in July and it was HORRIBLE. I don't think Blu-ray is anywhere near prime time (not enough pressing plants, profile issues, prices too high, etc). HD DVD had the biggest chance of gaining mass acceptance but will most likley fade away now.

Upscaling DVDs is good enough for most people and I find myself buying more DVD than HD DVD because of the upscaling capabilities in my XA2. Don't get me wrong, HD is nice, but upscaled is so close it's hard to justify the price difference.

If the Blu-ray camp wants to take over DVD, it needs to drop prices fast, get their profile issues fixed, and start phasing out DVD, meaning only release new titles on BR. None of these are going to happen soon even with the Warner Bros announcement.

X-human
01-07-2008, 05:52 AM
What exactly was horrible about Blu-ray? For all intent and purpose it's pretty much like HD-DVD. Profile issues have been resolved since November and most hardware is well less than $500. Realistically if you've bought into HD then Blu-ray shouldn't be out of your price range.

And DVD won't be dropped until Blu-ray has been as well established as DVD was when VHS was phased out. They're not going to put the cart in front of the horse.

I suspect over the next few years they'll be dropping extras and special editions from DVD releases. Before the format war Sony was already reissuing DVDs w/o widescreen versions. I'm sure Sony will switch focus back to beating SD DVD in June.

Sam
01-07-2008, 06:57 AM
I find the formats pretty equal at this point in PQ/AQ. My preference for HD DVD is or was more of a sentimental one of it being the first hi-def format I supported more than anything, along with 'rooting for the underdog'. I really hope care taken into the discs doesn't slide now that one side may have a lock on the war and a more secure future.

spawningblue
01-07-2008, 07:17 AM
I probably am not going to jump in anytime soon, although it is nice to have a winner for when the time comes.

I don't care what anybody says, there is a difference, but it's not huge like DVD was to VHS unless you have a big enough HD TV. I still see a lot of HD movies coming out without all the DVD extras, extended/ director's cuts, and cool packaging, even though they are twice the money. Like DVDs when they were first released, I'm sure a lot of these HD movies will be replaced down the road with bigger better editions.

I'll hold out until they release the Star Wars and LOTR trilogies. And do them right, as in all the extras from the DVDs and more. Not just movie only editions like they did with the Spider-Man and Die Hard films. It really makes no sense why they are doing that, as they already have all the extras together, how long could it take to convert them. It's not like VHS to DVD where they had to find all the extra footage, or go tape new interviews.

Anyways, glad there's a winner but not jumping on until there is some must have, done right films.

dwatts
01-07-2008, 08:38 AM
What exactly was horrible about Blu-ray?

The one problem is strict region coding - and there's not a single Blu-Ray player that is region free for SD either. Which is bad.

Current Blu-Ray discs are strange beasts. Hostel, for example, has no extras here - not a single one! Spiderman 3 is a two disc set.... why two discs? Doesn't Blu-Ray hold a lot more data? Weird.

Livingdead102
01-08-2008, 06:06 AM
The one problem is strict region coding - and there's not a single Blu-Ray player that is region free for SD either. Which is bad.

Right, that was another reason I was cheering for HD-DVD--region free, and less restrictive DRM (from what I understand). I don't know if it was an intentional move on Toshiba's part, but HD-DVD seems more consumer friendly. A win for Blu-Ray is a big win for the studios at the expense of consumers, and I don't like that. Come to think of it, no wonder so many studios are backing Blu-Ray--it's the format that allows them the most control to restrict the distribution of their films according to their whims.

Jeremy
01-08-2008, 07:17 AM
Eventually the Taiwanese, Chinese or South Koreans will make a region free Blu-Ray player, and probably sell it for dirt cheap. Pretty much every region-free player I've run across lately has come from one of those three.

KR~!
01-08-2008, 12:59 PM
More Breaking News:

Paramount poised to drop HD DVD format support

TOKYO, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Paramount studios is poised to drop its support of the high-definition DVD (HD DVD) format after Warner Bros studio said it would back the competing Blu-ray format, the Financial Times reported on Tuesday.

The loss of support from Paramount, which is owned by Viacom Inc, would likely deal the final blow to the HD DVD format backed by Toshiba Corp and put an end to the format war, the newspaper said on its Web site.

Time Warner Inc's Warner Bros studio on Friday said it would exclusively release high-definition DVDs in Sony Corp's Blu-ray format, marking a major setback to the HD DVD camp.

Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVD by nearly two-to-one in the United States last year, but HD DVD had secured major allies in August when Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc said they would go exclusively with HD DVD.

But Paramount is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to change sides if Warner Bros backed Blu-ray, the Financial Times said, citing people familiar with the situation. (Reporting by Nathan Layne)

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUST20151820080108

dwatts
01-08-2008, 01:07 PM
Yeah - I saw this. We knew it was already game over for HD-DVD, but that's game over.

I'll write the same thing when Universal makes their announcement. :D

KR~!
01-08-2008, 01:09 PM
How long before Toshiba start making Blu-Ray players or at least a combo player?

dwatts
01-08-2008, 01:25 PM
Right after they manage to swallow that huge boot in their mouths.

How long before MS make an announcement? Be a while. :D

Noto
01-08-2008, 01:28 PM
More Breaking News:

Paramount poised to drop HD DVD format support


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/DreamWorks/Paramount/CES_2008/Paramount/DreamWorks:__Still_Supporting_HD_DVD_%5BUPDATED%5D/1345

Granted, your article was published the day after but also from Tokyo.

Either way, when it happens, I expect that Paramount will make an official statement.

fceurich39
01-08-2008, 05:32 PM
Yeah - I saw this. We knew it was already game over for HD-DVD, but that's game over.

I'll write the same thing when Universal makes their announcement. :D

universal is the main studio i want to have blu ray dvd movies if they start making blu ray hd dvd is dead isn't universal the only exclusive hd dvd studio?

KR~!
01-08-2008, 06:49 PM
universal is the main studio i want to have blu ray dvd movies if they start making blu ray hd dvd is dead isn't universal the only exclusive hd dvd studio?

Universal and Dreamworks.

dwatts
01-08-2008, 06:55 PM
The Universal Horrors in hi-def. Who doesn't want those? :)