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Workshed
02-05-2008, 11:10 PM
In light of my recent issues with two different sets of Philips 42PFL7422D LCD, I have decided to invest elsewhere for an HDTV.

In my research, the best set (within my price range) and most-reliable--meaning, the internet isn't flooded with complaints about known defects--is a Pioneer 42" 720p.

But...720p? If I plan to have this set and use it as my primary set for years to come, would it be better if I invest in 1080p? Realizing my mistake in attempting to find a great set for ~$1200 (ended up paying $1400) and winding up with no set due to defects, I'm committed to paying just shy of $2000. LCD or Plasma, I'm open to both.

What say you, high def heads? At 42", should I go with a great set at 720p, or keep looking for that 1080p? I am trying to stay in the realm of Sony and Pioneer, given that Philips failed me and Panasonic has too many horror stories with their 42" plasmas.

Thanks.

dwatts
02-05-2008, 11:24 PM
Erm. Erm. I read different things in different places. The only comparison I've done myself is on my 42" TV with PS3 games - some are 1080p, some 720p. 720p games don't lose anything at all to my eye... so one might guess 1080p isn't essential.

But if you're like me, not having 1080 would drive me nuts, like a bug in my ear, mocking me. I can be lame like that sometimes.

Workshed
02-05-2008, 11:33 PM
But if you're like me, not having 1080 would drive me nuts, like a bug in my ear, mocking me. I can be lame like that sometimes.

Yes, that is like me. "You see, dwatts, we're not all that different, you and I."

But I did just read this fantastic article over at CNET on 720p vs. 1080p. (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6810011-1.html)

Our resident video guru, Senior Editor David Katzmaier, stands by what he said two years ago: The extra sharpness afforded by the 1080p televisions he's seen is noticeable only when watching 1080i or 1080p sources on a larger screens, say 55 inches and bigger, or with projectors that display a wall-size picture. Katzmaier also says that the main real-world advantage of 1080p is not the extra sharpness you'll be seeing, but instead, the smaller, more densely packed pixels. In other words, you can sit closer to a 1080p television and not notice any pixel structure, such as stair-stepping along diagonal lines, or the screen door effect (where you can actually see the space between the pixels). This advantage applies regardless of the quality of the source.

First and foremost, some people just want what's considered the best spec on a TV. If you're one of those people, spend the extra dough, you'll feel better in the long run. Secondly, if you're thinking of going big, really big (a 55-inch or larger screen), or you like to sit really close (closer than 1.5 times the diagonal measurement), the extra resolution may make it worth the difference--as long as you have a pristine, 1080i or 1080p HD source to feed into the set. And finally, it's a good idea to go with 1080p if you plan to use your TV a lot as a big computer monitor. That said, if you set your computer to output at 1,920x1,080, you may find that the icons and text on the screen are too small to view from far away (as a result, you may end up zooming the desktop or even changing to a lower resolution). But a 1080p set does give you some added flexibility (and sharpness) when it comes to computer connectivity.

If none of those factors jump out at you as true priorities--and you are working on a tight budget and want to save some dough--a 720p set is going to do you just fine. HD will still look great on your set, I swear. In fact, our current highest-scoring HDTV, the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5080HD, is a 720p, er--768p, model.

I'm definitely not getting 55" set and will definitely not be sitting closer than 8 feet. Hrm. I'll keep investigating for another few weeks, but that Pioneer 42" 720p gets such great reviews that I will keep it as a strong contender.

dwatts
02-05-2008, 11:39 PM
First and foremost, some people just want what's considered the best spec on a TV. If you're one of those people, spend the extra dough, you'll feel better in the long run.

GULP.

No - I've read similar things. For a projector 1080p is a very very nice thing to have. For a 42" TV looks like not so much (and as I wrote, I can't notice any difference when gaming). Let's be real, 720p is probably fine.

Ash28M
02-05-2008, 11:51 PM
I really don't see how 1080p can make a difference compared to 1080i on a 42" but I did notice a difference in resolution on my 1080i plasma when playing 720p material. Not much but it was there.

Workshed
02-06-2008, 12:01 AM
I really don't see how 1080p can make a difference compared to 1080i on a 42" but I did notice a difference in resolution on my 1080i plasma when playing 720p material. Not much but it was there.

And you've got a 42" set, Ash?

X-human
02-06-2008, 12:08 AM
I was looking about 42" for my next one, and although I like DLP I'm figuring on getting a 720p Plasma or CRT if possible. I think the article's right, 1080i/p only becomes a factor when you're looking at larger and larger scales.

It is all about the size of the screen. When I watched A Christmas Story at 1080i on a 16' screen there was much more visible detail that I could never see on our 1080i 52" DLP even if I was inches away. It's like looking in a microscope, you'd never see that detail no matter how close you brought your naked eye to something. It's all about scale.

Shannafey
02-06-2008, 12:52 AM
In light of my recent issues with two different sets of Philips 42PFL7422D LCD, I have decided to invest elsewhere for an HDTV.

Workshed,
What kind of problems? I have a Phillips 47" LCD, so I'm curious!!

Workshed
02-06-2008, 01:00 AM
Workshed,
What kind of problems? I have a Phillips 47" LCD, so I'm curious!!

Hey man, I've got another thread in High Def. where I talk about it, but let me break it down for ya:

After much research and price comparison, I went with the Philips 42. It's a beautiful set, but my first one delivered had a severe clouding issue. I called Philips, they had no idea what I was talking about, so I returned it for another. Hey, I can understand an isolated bad apple. The second one came and also had clouding issues--not quite as severe, but enough for me to have issues after dropping $1400. Philips said I could have it repaired. I told them no way. Amazon said they'd refund me but not send another and they would take issue with Philips about the clouding with this set.

Too bad as I was pretty sure I'd found the right one: 1080p, nice features, great-looking picture (clouding aside), and a good price.

A part of me wants to go to Costco, pick up the set again and see if the clouding persists--just because I can't find a 1080p at that price with that kind of name-brand.

Glad your 47" worked out. Can I ask how much you paid? Is it Ambilight? My set was not an Ambilight.

Reverenddave
02-06-2008, 01:09 AM
I'd suggest you look into the Sony Bravia SXRD HDTVs. Those things get some amazing reviews. If I decide to replace my current set-up, that's probably the one I'll get. You can get a 50" for under $1800. Best Buy's currently got the 60" on sale for $1900.

Workshed
02-06-2008, 02:21 AM
Speaking of clouding issues, I've come to find that this almost exclusively affects LCDs, which appears to be the trade-off when compared to the dreaded burn-in associated with plasmas.

On an AVS forum, someone suggested laying the LCD down flat on a hard surface overnight and loosening the screws on the back to relieve pressure on the screen, which can be the source of the clouding. I figure, I'm returning the tv on Sunday anyway, might as well try it tonight!

JW77
02-06-2008, 09:18 AM
I was under the impression that burn-in wasn't an issue with newer plasmas.

KR~!
02-06-2008, 01:14 PM
I was under the impression that burn-in wasn't an issue with newer plasmas.

it is not and hasn't been in years.

geeare
02-06-2008, 01:28 PM
I get ghosting with my 52" XBR. it kinda pisses me off at times but the picture quality is amazing, I wouldn't trade the thing in for the world...and at 52" 1080p does make a difference.

Shannafey
02-06-2008, 02:25 PM
Hey man, I've got another thread in High Def. where I talk about it, but let me break it down for ya:

After much research and price comparison, I went with the Philips 42. It's a beautiful set, but my first one delivered had a severe clouding issue. I called Philips, they had no idea what I was talking about, so I returned it for another. Hey, I can understand an isolated bad apple. The second one came and also had clouding issues--not quite as severe, but enough for me to have issues after dropping $1400. Philips said I could have it repaired. I told them no way. Amazon said they'd refund me but not send another and they would take issue with Philips about the clouding with this set.

Too bad as I was pretty sure I'd found the right one: 1080p, nice features, great-looking picture (clouding aside), and a good price.

A part of me wants to go to Costco, pick up the set again and see if the clouding persists--just because I can't find a 1080p at that price with that kind of name-brand.

Glad your 47" worked out. Can I ask how much you paid? Is it Ambilight? My set was not an Ambilight.

That's why I got the Phillips, instead of Samsung. Samsung had the clouding issues bad. Mine doesn't have Ambilight and it states that it is 1080P, but it is a bit missleading, as it upconverts to such. But all in all, I'm happy as hell with the set and had it about 9 months now. I bought it at BJ's Wholesale club for $1800 and actually this month the upgraded version is running for $1599 there.

http://shop.bjs.com/Philips-47--34--Full-HD-1080p-LCD-TV-40-quot---_stcVVproductId30851138VVcatId428420VVviewprod.htm

They have a bunch of good deals:

http://shop.bjs.com/40-quot---_stcVVcatId428420VVviewcat.htm

Vizios have a lot of bang for the buck and have stunning pictures. Hope there's a BJ's near you. If there is, join with the business membership, as it gives you back 5% on your purchases, so it pays for itself instantly. That's what I did.

Workshed
02-06-2008, 05:56 PM
If burn-in isn't an issue with any plasma televisions anymore, that's great and makes my decision a bit easier, given how much of an issue clouding appears to be. Jesus, I read some horror stories about Sony LCDs last night. Clouding, what the fuck. It should not be this hard to by a kick-ass tv.

JW77
02-06-2008, 09:34 PM
I hadn't heard of the clouding issues before, so I googled "xbr clouding" and, Jesus, that's fucked up.

People are paying thousands of dollars for these defective TVs and Sony's basically telling them to fuck off.

Cunts.

Ash28M
02-06-2008, 11:30 PM
And you've got a 42" set, Ash?

Yes I have a 42" plasma in my room and a 61" Dlp in the living room.

Workshed
02-07-2008, 01:35 AM
Yes I have a 42" plasma in my room and a 61" Dlp in the living room.

And it's on the 42" that you were able to discern the difference between 720p and 1080p, correct?

edit: I hadn't heard of the clouding issues before, so I googled "xbr clouding" and, Jesus, that's fucked up.

People are paying thousands of dollars for these defective TVs and Sony's basically telling them to fuck off.

Cunts.

Yeah, that mess pretty much eliminated Sony from my search scope.