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View Full Version : PIONEER CLD D504 - the rainbow player


MISFITZ
11-21-2001, 05:24 AM
http://boxingfanatics.com/ubb/graemlins/yo.gif This is also the Laser Disc player I use. In the MANIAC post, I mentioned the problem I 'may' be having with this model. Paff had threw in the info about "composite" vs "S-Video" which to me makes sense.

I never had a chance to test it on my BIG SCREEN. It is gone! :( I will never see it again!! SOLD!!! BUt I'm in the process of buying a new one. I have narrowed down my choice of TV's. It will be a 32" screen. And it has a 3-Line comb filter. Which brand...not sure yet. I've been hearing a HUGE pull for HITACHI and SONY. But that's news to me. Not really the SONY but the HITACHI part. I was speaking to a few TV repair guys and they told me ALL new TUBE screens suck. But Sony and HITACHI don't suck as much. :rolleyes: Whatever....

It all comes down to my wallet, and my wallet can't afford a WEGA, or 3D combs, or another HDTV.

But while researching the TV set and trying to find info on Paff's info, I stumbled across 6 different people who were COMPLAINING and confused about the:

"Red, blue, green swirls they are getting in their BLACKS with the PIONEER CLD D504"

I didn't want to "register" to respond, so tough tittie for them. But I'm POSITIVE it is because they were using S-Video. I will probably buy my set over the Thanksgiving Holidays when the sales should be all over the place.

But I think this player SPECIFICALLY, will show the 'rainbow" swirls in the blacks when hooked through S-Video. (probably most players, but this model popped up a lot, which makes me think its more noticable)

Damn!! I wish I had tested, but in the next few days, I will return my results. I'm curious from another post if "trespoochies" was having this problem or how they have their LD connected. We have the same model.

Anyways, I was just shocked at the EXACT SAME DESCRIPTION of the problem I described. Everyone assumed it was just LASER ROTT. Even when dude said he just bought TITANIC, they chalked it up as LASER ROTT! :D :mad: SUCKERS!!!!

Thanks Paff. Can't wait to post my results!!!! The web...fucking amazing!!!

jscott
11-23-2001, 04:56 PM
As to which brand of tv to buy, I would probably go for the Sony. Although the Hitachi Ultravision is a nice TV, Hitachi's projection tv's have a better track record (as far as quality control) than their tube TV's. I work in an electronics/appliance service department, and I hardly see any Sony TV's come in for repair unless they're 5 years old or beyond. I have a Hitachi 27", and my biggest gripe is too much color. On my display settings, on a scale of 0 to 50, I have my color level set on 3, which means I usually have to adjust the color, contrast etc every time I change sources. Bottom line, get a Sony, but make sure it has all the features/inputs you need. Let us know what tele you pick up.

killit
11-24-2001, 05:52 AM
I have the 504, still goin' strong after five years, I also use the s- video. No problem with the black level

Paff
11-24-2001, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by killit
I have the 504, still goin' strong after five years, I also use the s- video. No problem with the black level

Yes, but you'll most likely get better video performance via the composite cable, since LD is a composite source. Give it a shot, what have you got to lose?

killit
11-24-2001, 06:28 PM
Thanks, actually I used monster video 3 composite cable for the first four years. When I bought a new Wega TV I decide to try monster video 3 s video cable, and I really like the improvement. In fact I do not own one composite cable anymore. I know with ld, it's up to you amd that sometimes composite offers a superiour picture. Hell, since your sure, Maybe I'll go get a cable and try it again, hell it would be easier as my tv has tons of composite inputs and only a couple s video.

MISFITZ
11-26-2001, 02:38 AM
Well, after much delays, i finally did a test...

The TV I bought was a TOSHIBA 32" Cinema Series (32AX60)
I went to CONN's looking for the low end 32" tv that is usually priced at $549. Conn's didn't have that model but the salesman turned to the $699 32" and said he'd sell that to me for the SAME PRICE!!! I was like...FUCK YEAH!!! He wrote in the computer that I saw the same set advertised at FRY's and they needed to match the price!! I was sooo geeked!!! This set has more features and inputs! He knocked off $150!!!!

Sorry had to brag!!! ;)

Anyways, this set has a 3-line digital comb filter and a resolution of 750 lines. You all know the Laser Disc player obviously. I used MONSTER CABLES for this test. (both composite and S-video)

I gotta say after SEVERAL LD's, each one looked BETTER with S-cable. The composite showed fine, but the S-Video seemed to really sharpen up the image. And I mean that in a good way. I can honestly say that my LD has never looked so good as it does now. The films I used to test were:

Empire Strikes Back - Special Edition
Natural Born Killers (box)
The Abyss (box)
Alien (box)
Snow White (box)

Don't get me wrong, the composite was very good. I ran test with lights on and in darkness. Both ways the S-video looked better. The composite seemed to blend the colors, but it didn't create a softer image or give it a 'film' look. It just kinda had a 'blend' to it. It was a great image and my blacks were very dark though. (some credit goes to the set, which boast its FST Black Picture)

The S-Video was incredible. It was NOT too 'contrast' nor was it too 'sharp'. It just looked incredible. I could always tell the difference between DVD and LD on my old big screen and my older 27 inch. But on this set, LD looks fantastic. And my old big screen was a REALLY good Mitsubishi HDTV (VS-50800).

Even when I played color bar tests with both connections, the composite had VERY VERY slightly muddier edges and the red seemed a bit warm. With the S-video, colors were CLEARLY seperated and red was red.

This is not to say the composite theory and S-video was wrong. I still kinda believe that. But with the tests I ran above, and on this new TV set, hands down the S-video was better. And like I said, I am completely SHOCKED at how good my LD's look.

Anyways...

there's my take finally...

jscott
11-26-2001, 02:59 PM
Cinema Series! Nice TV. Glad to see you're satisfied with your purchase. Your LD player must be nicer than mine. When I use S Video out, the picture has a reddish (or warm) hue. But it does have a sharper look than the composite output.

MISFITZ
11-26-2001, 06:17 PM
Thanks Jscott!

I wasn't planning on buying that set, but when the salesman said he'd match the price of the one I was looking for, damn! Can't tell you how sweet that was!

What I was REALLY looking for in the test, was my "red/blue/green swirls" in my blacks. I couldn't see anything like i had seen before with this set-up. Maybe they were there but too faint too see. I really searched for them though. But like I said, both connections didn't seem to have this problem.

Next, i looked for anything 'abnormal'. I didn't want my LD to be a big CONTRAST, "too sharp for prime time" picture. And the S-video DID add some clean edges and nice contrast, but not at all over doing it. When the composite was connected, I could see 'muddy' marks on certain scenes. For example, some 'whites' on Hoth had small 'grayish blue' stains on them. And I set my set to "COOL" temperture to hopefully tone down some 'hot' reds. But I prefered the image the S-Video was giving me.

The one thing I regret is not testing it on my previous set. But I guess that really doesn't matter.


Side Note: Besides basic 'lens' cleaning to our LD Players and obviously keeping it dust free, do you freaks do anything else to help prolong your LD Player's life. I can't even imagine if my LD broke what I'd do. I know repairs on that thing will be a nightmare. (though a TIME WARNER "HOW TO FIX..." book actually goes over minor repairs for LD Players..) Any tips on prolonging the life of your player??

jscott
11-26-2001, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by MISFITZ
Any tips on prolonging the life of your player??

Cross your fingers & pray, because service centers that stock parts & schematics for LD players are few & far between, at least in my neck of the woods. I'd have to drive 120 miles to my nearest service center if mine broke down.

Paff
11-26-2001, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by MISFITZ
Any tips on prolonging the life of your player??

Yes, watch laserdiscs regularly!

Seriously, there's a lot of moving parts, and by watching discs on a regular basis, you keep those parts lubricated, and prevent dry-rot.

It also never hurts to look for a backup player.

gunner
11-26-2001, 08:21 PM
Hey Misfitz,If you have The Howling SE then check out the improvement the s-cable makes on the poster shots I mentioned on the older post.The composite theory is true in alot of cases I'm sure but I have always ignored the hype and experimented myself.
About the tv,You really should have checked out the 32" panasonic tau,by far the best tv I've personally ever owned.And it's made in Japan a rarity in these "Made In Mexico" electronics days.

jscott
11-26-2001, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by gunner
Hey Misfitz,If you have The Howling SE then check out the improvement the s-cable makes on the poster shots I mentioned on the older post.The composite theory is true in alot of cases I'm sure but I have always ignored the hype and experimented myself.
About the tv,You really should have checked out the 32" panasonic tau,by far the best tv I've personally ever owned.And it's made in Japan a rarity in these "Made In Mexico" electronics days.

Have you had any problems with picture distortion on your Tau? I've seen a few come in to the service shop that were distorted on the bottom (like if you're watching a scrolling ticker on the bottom of the screen, the ticker bows upward on either side rather than a straight line). I was considering buying a 27" Tau untill I saw this problem. Maybe I saw an older line, and Panasonic corrected the problem.

MISFITZ
11-26-2001, 09:08 PM
Gunner...
I had it in my mind to buy the TOSHIBA 32" (32A41) for $549 at BEST BUY or FRY's. I went to CONN's because they had a special for a free TV stand with every 30+ TV buy and they would match any price. I was sure they would have that set. But LUCKY for me they didn't!!!

I still can't believe he sold me the TOSHIBA 32" CINEMA SERIES for $549!! It totally solved my problem (from MANIAC Thread) with a shortage of inputs. The extra set of inputs this set has, was a Godsend! Needless to say, I didn't get a free tv stand, but it was a piece of shit anyways!!

Also, GUNNER, what all does the HOWLING SE have on it. I really loved THE HOWLING, and only have the 'basic' copy of it on Laser Disc. Also, what format does it come in SE, CAV or CLV???

Thanx!!!

Paff
11-26-2001, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by jscott


Have you had any problems with picture distortion on your Tau? I've seen a few come in to the service shop that were distorted on the bottom (like if you're watching a scrolling ticker on the bottom of the screen, the ticker bows upward on either side rather than a straight line). I was considering buying a 27" Tau untill I saw this problem. Maybe I saw an older line, and Panasonic corrected the problem.

I had a 27" Panasonic Superflat that did the exact same thing. I returned it, and the next one I got was fine.

As far as The Howling LD, there should be a review of it on the main page. First side is CLV, second is CAV. For extras, there's audio commentary, deleted scenes, a full copy of the script...it's pretty loaded.

gunner
11-26-2001, 09:18 PM
I've had no problem like that.My Tau is from thier first run.Maybe the newer ones have an occasional defect,not sure.I will say this though,panasonic has always kept a superb reputation with reliability.I wouldn't let the few sets you've seen come into repair scare you from purchasing one.
My 32"Tau displays an absolute stunning image quality,my uncle just bought a 32" wega which is also nice but he even agrees the Tau displays a much more stable and sharp image.The sony does sound better than the Tau but that doesn't matter to me since I use a receiver for sound.
I also have a 20" wega in my bedroom which I bought only because it was the only 20" tv (at the time) with an s-video input,and of course because it was also the only flat screen 20". I'm actually kicking myself in the ass now since panasonic has released a 20" Tau that includes both s-video and component video inputs...at the same price as my 20" wega!!

Paff
11-26-2001, 09:38 PM
Gunner:

Two Tau questions:

1. Does it have an option for 16x9 Enhancement?

2. Can you disable SVM (Scan Velocity Modulation) from a menu?

The Wegas do both, which is the primary reason that my next TV will be a Wega. I disabled SVM on my Superflat, but had to open the back to do it! I could go into service mode to do the "Vertical Squeeze Trick" for 16x9 Enhancement, but the Wegas do both via the remote.

But I do like my Superflat, and if Panasonic adds those important features (16x9 and SVM disabling), I'd definitely consider a Tau.

killit
11-26-2001, 11:35 PM
Paff, the 16x9 trick on the wega's is great. You'd be surprised how many dvds suffer from down conversion distortion. The wega has geometry problems :( But once you see the widescreen mode you simply can't have another tv. Until another brand does this, I reccomend the sony for a tv under 1000.

Paff
11-27-2001, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by killit
You'd be surprised how many dvds suffer from down conversion distortion

No, I know just how many DVDs suffer from down-conversion. I friggin hate it, and it's one reason I usually watch LDs over DVDs.

killit
11-27-2001, 05:01 AM
Soon you won't have to :) There are a few ld's I will not get rid of : Texas Chainsaw Massacre Elite LD (Way better transfer than the dvd) 2. Crash (cronenberg masterpiece w/commentary) 3.Living Dead Girl ( German + English tracks w/rollin commentary. 4. Performance (uncut & widescreen)

The rest of my overpriced import ld's I've sold for like pennies. I just want to be rid of them. I want to get rid of my player too, I've just spent too many thousands of dollars on stuff that's now worth nothing. I still have quite a few though. I'm gonna sell them to the used record store asap.

To anyone who want's a second opinion it's true that the best thing to prolong your ld player is to play discs often:)

gunner
11-27-2001, 01:47 PM
I was very unimpressed with the wega 16:9 mode when viewing dvds.But it has obvious advantages with HDTV signal receivers,and dvds of the future.When I said I compared the image on my Tau to my uncle's wega he was using 16:9 mode which should have far out-shined the tau but didn't.But to each thier own.I'm just waiting for my 20" wega to bite the dust so I'll have an excuse to pick up the 20" tau.

jscott
11-27-2001, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by killit
I'm gonna sell them to the used record store asap.


Whoa there little buddy. Sell your laserdiscs to a used record store? You don't want to do that. What you should do is post what discs you have availible for sale, and let us haggle with you on prices. Or send me a private message, and I"ll make offers for what titles I'm looking for. Please?

killit
11-27-2001, 09:13 PM
Ok jscott, thanks for the interest. :) I'll get started posting now, in the trade/sale section.

killit
11-27-2001, 09:16 PM
There is no trade section, so I'm gonna post it in ld's!

jscott
11-27-2001, 09:23 PM
Go ahead, but it'll probably get moved to the for sale/trade section. Just use the forum select option on the bottom of the screen, and scroll down to for sale/trade.