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rxfiend
12-02-2009, 08:03 AM
Oh boy, didn't Universal have problems when they did this with HD-DVD?

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3819

In an industry first, Universal Studios Home Entertainment announced today the introduction of "groundbreaking" dual-format discs containing both Blu-ray and DVD versions of some of the studio's most iconic films. The new "flipper" discs will launch on January 19, 2010 with the spy thrillers 'The Bourne Identity', 'The Bourne Supremacy' and 'The Bourne Ultimatum', premiering in the US as individually packaged Blu-ray discs (see blu-ray.com, November 29).

According to Universal, this makes it "ideal" for anyone planning to upgrade to Blu-ray at a future date as well as current owners of both Blu-ray and DVD systems. Each side of Universal's flipper discs includes the entire movie as well as all available bonus features.

"Universal's flipper discs are the perfect way for consumers to future-proof their collections while still enjoying their favorite movies on all their existing DVD players," said Craig Kornblau, President of Universal Studios Home Entertainment. "The flipper disc offers an easy way for viewers to convert to Blu-ray now or at any time in the future, confident in the fact they will be able to experience their home entertainment purchases in the highest quality picture and sound when they do."

The disc specifications for the 'Bourne' films list the discs as "BD-59", which indicates that they would be dual-layered on both the BD and DVD sides.

Flipper BD/DVD discs were tested in the early days of Blu-ray, but they were deemed impractical. It is unknown what development has made them possible now, and if any other company has worked in the development.

In 2006-2008, when Universal supported HD DVD exclusively, they were the major studio that most often went for combo editions, using it for most of its new releases and even some catalog titles.

dave13
12-02-2009, 10:55 PM
i wonder how many people would actually view this as a deterrent to purchasing the blu ray? i know i would.

Reverenddave
12-03-2009, 12:06 AM
The HD-DVD/DVD combo discs were often glitchy. If they're able to avoid the problems, then I'm a happy customer.

I fully support the Blu-Ray & DVD combo packs. I have a big extended family and I frequently buy movies for them all to watch. Out of the whole group, there's a dozen DVD Players and only two Blu-Ray Players. So this works out great for me.

othervoice1
12-03-2009, 12:55 AM
I liked this with HD-DVD and I like it with Blu-Ray as long as they keep the price down.

Matt89
12-03-2009, 01:26 AM
So they're double-sided discs? Seriously, what the fuck is the point? A DVD and a blu-ay disc are two totally different formats, like the discs have completely different textures. This totally deters me from buying Universal blu-rays. I thought with blu-ray we'd finally seen the end of double-sided discs. Smart move Universal, you fucking morons.

~Matt

KamuiX
12-03-2009, 01:43 AM
I fully support the Blu-Ray & DVD combo packs. I have a big extended family and I frequently buy movies for them all to watch. Out of the whole group, there's a dozen DVD Players and only two Blu-Ray Players. So this works out great for me.

Same here...I'd rather pay a couple extra bucks for a package with separate DVD's and Blu-Ray's than a flipper disc.

rhett
12-03-2009, 01:58 AM
I like having all those Universal HD-DVDs with both formats because considering HD-DVD is dead, it's nice to know I'll always have them on a format that will be supported. I've liked how Fox has often included DVDs with their Blu-ray discs (Misery, Child's Play, etc.), and I've also enjoyed the digital copies that Warner and others provide. There are a lost of options though, perfectly fit for a site poll!

Matt89
12-03-2009, 02:06 AM
I have no problem with what MGM's been doing (including DVDs with their blu-rays) but I think that mostly came down to laziness on their part, not wanting to port them over onto a blu-ray disc. That's the way it looks anyway. They still have the same disc art and everything. On the blu-ray of The Graduate, the movie is on the blu-ray disc, but all the special features are on the DVD, and the DVD is exactly the same as the 40th ann. release from a few years back. It actually says "The Graduate - 40th Anniversary Edition" on the disc art. Lazy.

I'm happy with them just including a blu-ray only. It's not like blu-ray's just going to die. Sales continue to increase each year, so it's not like it's just going to die off. HD is the future.

~Matt

othervoice1
12-03-2009, 02:12 AM
I would rather have two seperate discs packaged together rather then the flipper disc but I suppose it doesnt really make much difference.

dave13
12-03-2009, 03:26 AM
I would rather have two seperate discs packaged together rather then the flipper disc but I suppose it doesnt really make much difference.

doesn't it? double-sided dvds have seriously decreased shelf-lives, dont they? i know my double-sided T2 ultimate edition (which is in perfect condition) has been getting steadily glitchier over the last few years. if slapping a dvd onto the flip side of a blu ray is going to mean that that blu ray wont last as long as it would have otherwise, then clearly it goes beyond being just a waste of time (which it is for me), and actually becomes a problem. thats why, like i said before, i'll definitely be less likely to buy a flipper blu/dvd disc than i would a disc that was one or the other.

Matt89
12-03-2009, 04:14 AM
doesn't it? double-sided dvds have seriously decreased shelf-lives, dont they? i know my double-sided T2 ultimate edition (which is in perfect condition) has been getting steadily glitchier over the last few years. if slapping a dvd onto the flip side of a blu ray is going to mean that that blu ray wont last as long as it would have otherwise, then clearly it goes beyond being just a waste of time (which it is for me), and actually becomes a problem. thats why, like i said before, i'll definitely be less likely to buy a flipper blu/dvd disc than i would a disc that was one or the other.

Word.

~Matt

HellRazor
12-03-2009, 04:14 AM
Is the blu-ray side of these discs a 50 gig BD or a 25 gig BD? If its the same as a regular BLU and doesnt have problems playing or a reduced shelf life or any other detriments than...why not? But I imagine there is a tradeoff somewhere.

the13thman
12-03-2009, 11:18 AM
Iím another one that would avoid any double-sided combo discs.

The primary reason is that they are a pain to handle and store, being easily scratched (especially when sent in the mail) and fingerprinted or otherwise dirtied.

The secondary reason is that Universalís double-sided DVDs are renowned for their glitchiness and layer change issues Ė Iíve had unpleasant experiences with The Frighteners and Dune just to name two (I have others I now dread playing in case they mess up also). I read that Universal manufactures these very cheaply in Mexico and consequently the error rate is very high. I wouldnít be surprised if the combo BD/DVDs turn out to also have an increased likelihood of failure.

f.ramses
12-03-2009, 01:12 PM
But I imagine there is a tradeoff somewhere.

At the very least it's the fact that you don't get artwork on the outside of the disc but I guess time will tell if it's something worse like the glitches that were mentioned with the HD-DVD combo discs.
I know it's something I spend a whole 1 second looking at as I take the disc out of the case and that it's usually just a portion of the cover image but I think I'd rather artwork on one side of my BD's rather than the same movie in an inferior format. It'd be nice to have the DVD for greater compatibility but it should really be a separate disc.

crikan
12-03-2009, 01:53 PM
i wonder how many people would actually view this as a deterrent to purchasing the blu ray? i know i would.

I will be staying away from these as much as I can. I'm good with them putting a DVD and a blu-ray in the case but not on the same disc. To be honest, as someone who has been buying a lot of blu-ray, this pisses me off. :fire:

X-human
12-03-2009, 05:58 PM
Considering all the issues flipper discs have had, even as recent as with HD-DVD, I'd also be wary of this. I don't give a damn about cover art, I just want a disc that plays.

evildeadfan123
12-03-2009, 06:10 PM
If this is how DVD and Blu-Ray are going to be for both formats, count me out. I have had problems in the past with the flipper disc. After the 2nd Season of Miami Vice, I didn't buy any more seasons of Miami Vice until the came out with the Complete Series with single sided discs. The same thing happened with my Knight Rider, I also purchased the Complete Series and got rid of my old flipper dvd.

fattyjoe37
12-03-2009, 10:43 PM
Universal is the worst company when it comes to releasing DVDs. They messed up two of their biggest titles with the original releases of the Back to the Future Trilogy and E.T. and their double sided discs are notorious for malfunctioning. I know I had to buy The Frighteners Director's Cut 3 times before I got a copy that worked, and that was a 3 disc import from Australia! I imagine this'll hurt Blu-ray more than help it.

Katatonia
12-03-2009, 11:15 PM
Universal is the worst company when it comes to releasing DVDs. They messed up two of their biggest titles with the original releases of the Back to the Future Trilogy and E.T. and their double sided discs are notorious for malfunctioning. I know I had to buy The Frighteners Director's Cut 3 times before I got a copy that worked, and that was a 3 disc import from Australia! I imagine this'll hurt Blu-ray more than help it.

Yeah, they messed up some big older DVD releases. I don't think they've truly messed up anything major recently though. Warner on the other hand...terrible quality control.

Their double-sided discs (DVD-18s) had problems on some older DVD players. They don't advertise that, but I'm sure they got a ton of returns for that reason alone.

philxus
12-03-2009, 11:19 PM
I would rather have two seperate discs packaged together rather then the flipper disc but I suppose it doesnt really make much difference.

Same here,I hate blank discs i like to see discs with artwork on them.

Matt89
12-04-2009, 12:07 AM
Yeah, they messed up some big older DVD releases. I don't think they've truly messed up anything major recently though. Warner on the other hand...terrible quality control.

I'm with you on Universal, but what's so bad about Warner? Is everyone still bitching about how when they initially marketed blu-rays, the audio wasn't lossless? They've stopped doing that guys...

In terms of remastering, most Warner transfers rival those of Criterion. They're probably the best major studio out there right now when it comes to remastering catalog titles. They also keep the original artwork for their DVD/blu-ray cases (well...most of them anyway).

But yeah what I don't understand is...why is Universal marketing blu-ray/DVD combos NOW? It's been like 3 years since blu-ray arrived on the market and they decide NOW to start releasing blu-ray/DVD flipper combos? Fuck that. I don't care if they release Jaws, if it's a flipper, they can go fuck themselves. They are the WORST company right now when it comes to releasing blu-rays. Their special features suck, the catalog titles they've released have been mostly shit. They have some amazing films in their vaults (American Graffiti, Back to the Future, Jaws, The Sting, Double Indemnity, Play Misty For Me, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Deer Hunter, High Plains Drifter, a shitload of Hitchcock films, John Hughes films, etc) but have we seen ANY of these? Fuck no. Instead we get The Mummy and all its shitty sequels, and the fucking Fast and the Furious movies. Come on Universal, smarten the fuck up!

~Matt

dave13
12-04-2009, 02:11 AM
unless there's something im unaware of, i gotta agree with matt. seems like half the movies i'm buying are Warner Bros. im consistently impressed by the effort they put into their discs. great movies, with great features. and as far as blu ray goes, the a/v is pretty awesome too.

but im curious. what did you mean by lousy quality control, katatonia?

Katatonia
12-04-2009, 03:24 AM
I'm with you on Universal, but what's so bad about Warner? Is everyone still bitching about how when they initially marketed blu-rays, the audio wasn't lossless? They've stopped doing that guys...

Warner has screwed up a lot as far as manufacturing problems. The Blade Runner Blu-ray repress was a complete mess, with them mixing up the discs and labels. I had to go through three sets before I received a correct set.

There was the Superman DVD set fiasco a few years back, the Blu-ray Terminator 3 interlaced flaw.

I've also bought several TV Box Sets from them that had discs which had deep scratches and nicks, and skipped in all of my players and software data verification programs. They couldn't be fixed, they were D.O.A.

One other TV set had duplicates of other discs, so of course that had to be returned.

Not long ago, I received a Blu-ray direct from Warner that was actually sliced in half...inside the sealed case which itself was flawless.

Quite simply, Warner = Poor Manufacturing quality controls.

They really don't always do a swell job on their Blu-rays even now either. The recent Logan's Run ported over the old bonus materials, but they actually looked far superior on the old DVD. For some reason, they ported them over "Interlaced" and of lesser visual quality, plus the Trailer was only Letterbox instead of 16x9 like the old DVD from 2000.

Matt89
12-04-2009, 04:58 AM
Hmmm...I've never had a problem with a single Warner DVD or blu-ray. That really sucks that you've had so much bad luck (although I did hear about the duplicated discs on the Blade Runner and Superman sets).

But in terms of their transfers, they're amazing. They use original elements for their audio (they don't add extra effects - like Universal did with Jaws), they don't digitally alter their films, they don't use DNR, their transfers always look "film-like". Of course there are rare exceptions, but for the most part, IMO they're probably the most consistent of the major studios in terms of quality.

~Matt

dave13
12-04-2009, 04:59 AM
hadn't heard about the blade runner issue, although i do remember the superman thing.

2D4EVER
12-04-2009, 05:12 AM
Fuck this. Fuck all the digital copies and SD dvds also. All are unnecessary added costs to screw consumers. And most of all fuck flipper discs. We like artwork on a disc, not something to signal ships when we are stranded on an island.

WhatTHEhell19
12-04-2009, 08:21 AM
I gotta agree with everyone else in this thread, I hate flipper discs. This is not going to go over well. Why can't they do like they've been doing? The blu-ray on one disc and dvd on the 2nd disc is a much better way to go in my oppinion. How much do you guys wanna bet that they will still give an entire disc to those useless digital copies?

Rocker10
12-04-2009, 08:55 AM
No interest in this...bad idea in my opinion.