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View Full Version : John Woo's The Killer in March on BD


indiephantom
01-21-2010, 02:40 AM
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Killer-Blu-ray/9318/

Ultimate Edition sounds good. I missed getting the long OOP Criterion edition and this is certainly one of Woo's finest. :fire::fire:

2D4EVER
01-21-2010, 02:49 AM
Very nice. I will definitely buy this even though I think I over the course of 10 years I have owned at least 3 different dvd versions The Killer.

Kolpitz
01-21-2010, 02:50 AM
I hope this comes to fruition. This is my favorite John Woo film and the Winstar DVD I have isn't anamorphic.

Erick H.
01-21-2010, 06:33 AM
Love that film,saw it in the theater.Dragon Dynasty has put out some very nice standard def discs,I hope their Blu's are equally fine.

bigdaddyhorse
01-21-2010, 06:13 PM
This looks like a good time to re-visit this film. I'm still chilling with the Criterion laserdisc as the dvd was way too expensive. I'd rather it be Hard Boiled than The Killer, but both are great films.

indiephantom
01-21-2010, 09:15 PM
I'd rather it be Hard Boiled than The Killer, but both are great films.

I prefer that film, too. But I did manage to get the CC of Hard Boiled before prices got crazy, and I still haven't bought The Killer. It's been so long since I've watched it.

WrongTurnLover
02-15-2010, 08:07 PM
One of my action film favorites should kick some serious ass on High Def.

Reverenddave
02-16-2010, 01:27 PM
I'm hoping someone will re-release the Hard Boiled blu-ray with a better transfer.

Kolpitz
03-27-2010, 07:45 AM
Ouch! Early word from multiple sources is that the Blu-ray is absolute garbage. Here's the lowdown from DVD Beaver (http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare2/killer4.htm):

Certainly a disappointment. I can only state that my single-layered pre-release copy is interlaced (1080i) and we don't need to investigate much further than that to readily dismiss the transfer. However, it's easy to see that it also has some other issues - it is hazy and appears to have moiring. It does not look, or sound - for that matter, very good at all and judging by the running times this may be from a PAL source as well as riddled with annoying artifacts.

No lossless audio option and the, ridiculous, English DUB has a 5.1 bump but the original Cantonese is in 2.0 channel. There are optional subtitles in English or Spanish and my Momitsu has identified, my early copy, as being a region FREE disc playable on Blu-ray machines worldwide.

Extras all seem re-hashed - the 5 deleted scenes were already on the UK Hong Kong Legends DVD from 2002, there is no commentary but there is an interview with director John Woo running almost 25-minutes and two American Cinematheque Q+A's (one on The Killer - the other on Hard Boiled with the director) from 2002. A short featurette on The Killer Locations and a John Woo Trailer Gallery.

Like the recent 36th Chamber of Shaolin Blu-ray from Weinstein (Dragon Dynasty) this interlaced transfer is unacceptable and while I know of no other upcoming HD edition of the title we can't endorse - even at the reasonable price. Many fans waited in abeyance for this and it is a real disappointment.

Truthfully, the images don't look all that bad to me (though they do look fairly DNRed). This movie has never looked good on the VHS I had or the multiple DVDs I've owned. Still, screen grabs rarely show the atrociousness of an interlaced transfer and, as the review says, an interlaced Blu-ray is simply unacceptable. I canceled my pre-order on Amazon. Hopefully, I can get the BD from Netflix and judge for myself.

Erick H.
03-27-2010, 08:23 AM
I have my doubts about a Blu of this film.It is inherently grainy.Finding the right balance between getting a sharp high def transfer and ''cleaning up" the grain (as they tend to try to do with many BR's) may be a tough job.Go too far either way and people will bitch about it.

2D4EVER
03-27-2010, 10:21 AM
Dragon Dynasty is fucking up their blu rays royally. Forget grain. They seem intent on only releasing interlaced blu rays. Who the fuck is in charge over there?

Matt89
03-28-2010, 12:01 AM
OMG wow. I was gonna buy this but FUCK THAT. Interlaced!!?? Jesus Christ what IS it with studios recently!? House on Sorority Row gets re-released interlaced, then Alliance over here in Canada releases a shitlad of blu-rays (The Others, The English Patient, Good Will Hunting, Halloween 6, Halloween H20, Halloween: Resurrection) - all interlaced. Dragon Dynasty's first blu-ray release, The 36th Chamber of Shaolin is also interlaced.

Fuck, I'm actually really pissed. The Criterion has been OOP forever and it's non-anamorphic. Now we get this half-assed piece of shit blu-ray? Goddamnit. Motherfuckers.

And I fucking LOVE how they used the English title for the film instead of having the original title in Cantonese with "The Killer" underneath. :rolleyes: Makes me wonder how accurate the subtitles are...

Fuckers...

~Matt

mlock
03-28-2010, 01:49 AM
Too bad this bluray version of Hard Boiled isn't available, but it too would problably look like ass depending on who distributed it.


http://www.hkflix.com/xq/asp/filmID.530147/qx/details.htm

springjack
03-28-2010, 04:45 PM
Bey Logan was the soul of Hong Kong Legends and Dragon Dynasty...

Now, Hong Kong Legends has turned into Cine Asia and Dragon Dynasty has lowered their often perfect standarts. They even made a deal with Hong Kong Legends so is no secret that the Killer is probably the same version of the old Hong Kong Legends with a bunch of new extras that were produced just to fill the disk.

You can only get quality releases of Asian movies if the name Bey Logan is on the credits and in the production of the Dvd...
________
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X-human
03-28-2010, 06:18 PM
I have my doubts about a Blu of this film.It is inherently grainy.Finding the right balance between getting a sharp high def transfer and ''cleaning up" the grain (as they tend to try to do with many BR's) may be a tough job.Go too far either way and people will bitch about it.

Erick, there is no restoration benefits in interlaced video nor digital artifacts. These are all faults of the mastering, not the source material. Fans have every right to bitch. Weinsteins also released a "why even bother" transfer on Blu-ray for Hard Boiled. And people wonder why they're going out of business.

In my mind let the source material speak for itself. There may be better source material out there than a company uses (like the case with the director's cut of Army of Darkness for example) but you'll never see me complain about grain, a scratch, a splice or a reel change marker. These are within the nature of the beast while DNR, EE, ghosting, compression artifacts and other tell tale video signs are completely avoidable by competent mastering.

Matt89
03-28-2010, 07:59 PM
^ Word.

~Matt

Erick H.
03-29-2010, 07:26 AM
Erick, there is no restoration benefits in interlaced video nor digital artifacts. These are all faults of the mastering, not the source material. Fans have every right to bitch. Weinsteins also released a "why even bother" transfer on Blu-ray for Hard Boiled. And people wonder why they're going out of business.

In my mind let the source material speak for itself. There may be better source material out there than a company uses (like the case with the director's cut of Army of Darkness for example) but you'll never see me complain about grain, a scratch, a splice or a reel change marker. These are within the nature of the beast while DNR, EE, ghosting, compression artifacts and other tell tale video signs are completely avoidable by competent mastering.

X,I never meant to imply that no one had any cause to bitch about a substandard transfer.I meant only that this film (which I saw in the theater when it was new) is a VERY grainy film and I find that a lot of Blu Ray fans (some less knowledgable than yourself) tend to freak out when they see ANY film grain while I'm sure you have also seen transfers so tweaked to eliminate grain as to look almost like video,leaving flesh tones and details as devoid of life as anything George Lucas ever dreamed up at ILM.I simply meant that this might prove a tough title to please everyone.

As to getting an interlaced transfer in 2010,bitch away !

dave13
03-29-2010, 06:20 PM
isn't the purpose of blu ray to get that much closer to the original image as it first appeared on a piece of film? film has grain, and so when i see a blu ray, the film grain is what i want to see. now new films, shot on digital or whatever, won't have that grain, and thats fine. but i'd go out on a limb here and say that anyone who makes statements like "I hate grain" isn't actually a blu-ray fan. at least as it applies to films made more than 10 years ago.

As far as making a transfer of a grainy film like the killer that will please everyone, i would hope that anyone who is an actual fan of the film, and other films of that era and genre, will be educated enough to realize that film grain is a good thing.

Kolpitz
03-29-2010, 06:51 PM
isn't the purpose of blu ray to get that much closer to the original image as it first appeared on a piece of film? film has grain, and so when i see a blu ray, the film grain is what i want to see. now new films, shot on digital or whatever, won't have that grain, and thats fine. but i'd go out on a limb here and say that anyone who makes statements like "I hate grain" isn't actually a blu-ray fan. at least as it applies to films made more than 10 years ago.

As far as making a transfer of a grainy film like that killer that will please everyone, i would hope that anyone who is an actual fan of the film, and other films of that era and genre, will be educated enough to realize that film grain is a good thing.

This is what happens any time a new piece of technology starts to catch on. The average Joe gets their hands on it, misunderstands it and has it changed for the worse. This happened with DVD. DVD was, at first, mainly meant for cinephiles. Aside from the occasional hiccup, most DVDs were in their original aspect ratios, with cinephile-friendly extras like commentary, behind-the-scenes docs, deleted scenes, etc. Enter mainstream audiences and, all of a sudden, we're getting full frame releases (either separate releases or dual discs). Having just come off of VHS for close to 20 years, combined with P&S TV broadcasts for longer than that, people wanted the picture "to fill their screen" and not have those "annoying black bars." Ma & Pa Kettle complained and the studios answered. The same thing is happening with Blu-ray. Joe Schmoe goes into Best Buy, where the TVs are playing a BD of something shot in HD (or a computer animated film) and they assume that all BDs will look crystal clear. When they get to the BDs that weren't crystal clear, they bitch and moan about the "distracting grain." Once again, studios answer their complaints, this time with excessive DNR. It's a double-edged sword though because, without it catching on with the public at large, Blu-ray would die off. So, we get to keep the format we love (well, most of us anyway) but now we'll have to deal with transfers that have been tinkered with to the point that the film almost becomes unrecognizable.

spawningblue
03-29-2010, 10:31 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but at 1080i shouldn't it still look better then the DVDs as they can only be upconverted to 480p? Or is the transfer being progressive scanned even more important then the 720 or 1080 lines of resolution?

And don't get me wrong, they should still be ashamed releasing these to Blu Ray, but I'm curious if this disc and The 36th Chamber of Shaolin Blu Ray would still look better then their DVD versions, as it seems they are pretty much priced the same.

Kolpitz
03-30-2010, 11:24 PM
Presumably, in response to all of the negative reviews, the Blu-ray has shot up to a "long wait" on Netflix.

Kolpitz
03-30-2010, 11:37 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but at 1080i shouldn't it still look better then the DVDs as they can only be upconverted to 480p? Or is the transfer being progressive scanned even more important then the 720 or 1080 lines of resolution?

And don't get me wrong, they should still be ashamed releasing these to Blu Ray, but I'm curious if this disc and The 36th Chamber of Shaolin Blu Ray would still look better then their DVD versions, as it seems they are pretty much priced the same.

The interlacing will make for a really annoying transfer, especially for a movie so heavy on action. Every time there's action on screen or the camera moves, you risk having the transfer "break apart," showing disjointed lines in the images. I'm no expert but I believe that with an interlaced transfer, the image is actually broken into two parts. Each part represents every other line of resolution, so in this case the first image would be the odd numbered lines and the second image would be the even numbered lines (540 lines per image). The images are actually displayed at separate intervals but it's done so quickly that the naked eye sees one image. However, these two images will often become separated in moments of motion / action. The worst example of this that I own is Code Red's SOLE SURVIVOR. That movie was irritating to watch on my HDTV. With a progressive image, you get all 1080 lines at once. Like I said, I could be wrong but that's my understanding of interlacing vs. progressive. So, yeah, you get more lines of resolution but the image won't look very good regardless. Plus, in this case, the lines of resolution don't seem to make a difference since the image was DNRed to Hell, scrubbing away almost all detail and resolution anyway. From what I've seen and heard, the DVDs actually have more detail than the Blu-ray. Add to that the fact that the transfer is just a PAL-to-NTSC transfer, and now you're dealing with a slightly sped up movie. As for the Dragon Dynasty DVD, I can only assume that it's also interlaced, lacks detail and is sped up. The only thing the BD has going for it is that is actually a hi-def transfer, just a really shitty one. The BD for Hard Boiled that Dragon Dynasty did for the Special Edition of Stranglehold was nothing more than an upconverted DVD.

In the case of the 36th Chamber of Shaolin, I would stick with the DVD. I own it and it's progressive.

Also, if I made a mistake in my analysis of interlacing, please feel free to correct me.