Ratner keeping to the spirit of Red Dragon book, excellent

SEANVALEN · 06-18-2002, 02:25 AM

http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial...8&obj_id=35033

Were going to see a angry Hannibal.

I like his views on this, looking good.

Paff · 06-19-2002, 06:37 PM

It's been a while since I read Red Dragon (more than 10 years), but I recall that Lecter was not very prominent in the story at all.

If Ratner's going to "keep to the spirit of the book", does that mean Anthony Hopkins will get a few short scenes while almost all of the movie deals with Will Graham and Francis Dollarhyde?

If Brett Ratner does that I'll eat.....a painting.

SEANVALEN · 06-20-2002, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paff
It's been a while since I read Red Dragon (more than 10 years), but I recall that Lecter was not very prominent in the story at all.

If Ratner's going to "keep to the spirit of the book", does that mean Anthony Hopkins will get a few short scenes while almost all of the movie deals with Will Graham and Francis Dollarhyde?

If Brett Ratner does that I'll eat.....a painting.

Nope, I definately read at some point, Hopkins character features more then in the book, would be crazy not too, thus in spirit of the book, does not mean exactly like the book.

mcchrist · 06-20-2002, 02:00 AM

I found the last two movies to be somewhat lousy. I did enjoy Hannibal at first view, but subsequent views have made it less than satisfying. As for Red Dragon? Give me Manhunter anyday. No offense to Hopkins who is amazing in the role of Hannibal, he can't save the pictures from what they were. So when its time for me to watch a crazed Hopkins, I pop in Titus.

06-20-2002, 03:53 AM

Personally, I think this is a waste of a movie. Was Manhunter so lacking that someone feels a need to re-film the Red Dragon story?

Plus, since Hopkins is involved, they probably will expand Lecter's role. Red Dragon is all about Will Graham & Dollarhyde, not Lecter.

No offense to Hopkins, of course, but I think this is a sh*tty idea

Paff · 06-20-2002, 06:13 AM

Agree and disagree Jeff...

I DO think Manhunter needed to be remade, or more correctly, a more accurate version of Red Dragon. You know, it's just like Who Goes There and The Thing. Nothing wrong with the 1951 version, but a version more faithful to the text was necessary.

I read Red Dragon after seeing Silence, and naturally, I pictured Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal, and that made it quite enjoyable. Yes, William Peterson was great in Manhunter, but Dollarhyde was just such a messed up guy and I thought it got short shrift in Mann's film. Red Dragon was (and still is) my favorite of the three books, and I'd LOVE a film version that more closely follows the book.

Where I totally agree with you is that they'll re-write the text to give Hopkins more screen time. Of course that makes sense, since that's what the people want. But it creates a paradox. If you think a more faithful representation needed to be done, you have to carry that attitude all the way through, meaning less Lecter. Less Lecter will not please audiences, so you have to do a less faithful representation of the original novel.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

06-21-2002, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paff

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Well put.

06-21-2002, 01:07 AM

Fact is, only film geeks know what MANHUNTER is. It was a huge huge bomb. Barely seen by anyone upon its release.

Therefore, it can easily be remade for a public that won't even know it's a remake.

06-21-2002, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
Fact is, only film geeks know what MANHUNTER is. It was a huge huge bomb. Barely seen by anyone upon its release.

Therefore, it can easily be remade for a public that won't even know it's a remake.

*groan*... sadly, you are very right. I read somewhere that Ridley Scott declined to direct Red Dragon because he liked Manhunter too much (Manhunter was SUPPOSED to be called Red Dragon anyhow, but Dino Delaurantes (badly spelled) felt that the public would see it as a film about communists). I'm sure money and more attractive projects played just a slight role too...

I dunno. I enjoy the whole Lector trilogy (I'm one of the very few who felt that Hannibal was great... the best film Scott made in years), but this whole project seems to smack just a bit too much of naked money lust. And I have already commented on my distaste for director Brett "Money Talks" Ratner's "let's badmouth Manhunter by saying it's untrue to the spirit of the novel while beefing up Lector's part at exactly the same time" attitude...

KillerCannabis · 06-26-2002, 07:38 PM

This looks great. I thought Manhunter was a piece of shit. Boring and lifeless, just like I was after watching it. Hopefully Ratner does a good job, even though thus far he's really only known for comedy.

SEANVALEN · 06-27-2002, 03:02 AM

Then you have films like The Godfather which surpass the book, so a movie always has a chance in surpassing or doing things greater in ways not depicted by the book, we must not underestimate the difference between a book and a film. I'm sure Hopkins and Norton's acting already, will give something special to Red Dragon, Man Hunter cannot, and the book cannot, lets see the other pieces of the film, if Hopkins can save a film like Hannibal, for at least making it interesting to watch him, a good story in Red Dragon and Hopkins, on paper for me is good enough to beat the crap out of manhunter anyday.

I'm positive about sequels and remakes, sometimes we see the potential, rather then turning a blind eye, I salute John Carpenters The Thing, I salute Cape Fear remake, I salute Night of the living Dead remake, which I also enjoyed, but have a talk about it before, we all have our doubts, its always a risk, but you'll never know, if someone never tries, and its not your money, and even it is bad, we've seen people talk about the stronger film always, takes nothing away from original films that were better etc, if thats the case .

06-18-2002, 02:25 AM	#1
SEANVALEN HackMaster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: London, England Posts: 1,044	Ratner keeping to the spirit of Red Dragon book, excellent http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial...8&obj_id=35033 Were going to see a angry Hannibal. I like his views on this, looking good. __________________ "Better to be dead and cool then alive and uncool." Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man

06-19-2002, 06:37 PM	#2
Paff Moderator Join Date: May 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,538	It's been a while since I read Red Dragon (more than 10 years), but I recall that Lecter was not very prominent in the story at all. If Ratner's going to "keep to the spirit of the book", does that mean Anthony Hopkins will get a few short scenes while almost all of the movie deals with Will Graham and Francis Dollarhyde? If Brett Ratner does that I'll eat.....a painting. __________________ CINEMA PAFF - Your BB-Movie Showcase * * - The extra B is for BYOBB Paff's Laserdiscs

06-20-2002, 02:00 AM	#4
mcchrist A new breed of pervert! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Keepin' the dogs away... Posts: 7,984	I found the last two movies to be somewhat lousy. I did enjoy Hannibal at first view, but subsequent views have made it less than satisfying. As for Red Dragon? Give me Manhunter anyday. No offense to Hopkins who is amazing in the role of Hannibal, he can't save the pictures from what they were. So when its time for me to watch a crazed Hopkins, I pop in Titus. __________________ McChrist's MySpace Cult-Stitch on MySpace

06-20-2002, 06:13 AM	#6
Paff Moderator Join Date: May 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,538	Agree and disagree Jeff... I DO think Manhunter needed to be remade, or more correctly, a more accurate version of Red Dragon. You know, it's just like Who Goes There and The Thing. Nothing wrong with the 1951 version, but a version more faithful to the text was necessary. I read Red Dragon after seeing Silence, and naturally, I pictured Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal, and that made it quite enjoyable. Yes, William Peterson was great in Manhunter, but Dollarhyde was just such a messed up guy and I thought it got short shrift in Mann's film. Red Dragon was (and still is) my favorite of the three books, and I'd LOVE a film version that more closely follows the book. Where I totally agree with you is that they'll re-write the text to give Hopkins more screen time. Of course that makes sense, since that's what the people want. But it creates a paradox. If you think a more faithful representation needed to be done, you have to carry that attitude all the way through, meaning less Lecter. Less Lecter will not please audiences, so you have to do a less faithful representation of the original novel. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. __________________ CINEMA PAFF - Your BB-Movie Showcase * * - The extra B is for BYOBB Paff's Laserdiscs

06-27-2002, 03:02 AM	#11
SEANVALEN HackMaster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: London, England Posts: 1,044	Then you have films like The Godfather which surpass the book, so a movie always has a chance in surpassing or doing things greater in ways not depicted by the book, we must not underestimate the difference between a book and a film. I'm sure Hopkins and Norton's acting already, will give something special to Red Dragon, Man Hunter cannot, and the book cannot, lets see the other pieces of the film, if Hopkins can save a film like Hannibal, for at least making it interesting to watch him, a good story in Red Dragon and Hopkins, on paper for me is good enough to beat the crap out of manhunter anyday. I'm positive about sequels and remakes, sometimes we see the potential, rather then turning a blind eye, I salute John Carpenters The Thing, I salute Cape Fear remake, I salute Night of the living Dead remake, which I also enjoyed, but have a talk about it before, we all have our doubts, its always a risk, but you'll never know, if someone never tries, and its not your money, and even it is bad, we've seen people talk about the stronger film always, takes nothing away from original films that were better etc, if thats the case . __________________ "Better to be dead and cool then alive and uncool." Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man

06-20-2002, 03:53 AM	#5
jeffschmidt Guest Posts: n/a	Personally, I think this is a waste of a movie. Was Manhunter so lacking that someone feels a need to re-film the Red Dragon story? Plus, since Hopkins is involved, they probably will expand Lecter's role. Red Dragon is all about Will Graham & Dollarhyde, not Lecter. No offense to Hopkins, of course, but I think this is a sh*tty idea

06-21-2002, 01:07 AM	#8
Matt_Stevens Guest Posts: n/a	Fact is, only film geeks know what MANHUNTER is. It was a huge huge bomb. Barely seen by anyone upon its release. Therefore, it can easily be remade for a public that won't even know it's a remake.

06-26-2002, 07:38 PM	#10
KillerCannabis Slow, Deep & Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: So Cal Posts: 5,606	This looks great. I thought Manhunter was a piece of shit. Boring and lifeless, just like I was after watching it. Hopefully Ratner does a good job, even though thus far he's really only known for comedy.

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