Just ordred the shout Piranha Blu-ray.78

[CPT HOOK]

While I disagree with the reasoning, I will agree with DVD-fanatic that Humanoids From The Deep is a pretty awful movie, especially when held in comparison with Piranha.

However, Shout Factory's blu-ray release is stunningly gorgeous, and one of their finest transfers. Anyone who is a fan of the film, or even anyone who is remotely curious about it, shouldn't hesitate to pick it up.

[ronnie21]

Got it today. happy i did, excellent trasnsfer.. best i ever seen the film look. A big leap from U.SA. VERSION I USE TO HAVE ON vhs. ALL cut up. Great extras too. thanks guys. great pick up there...

[DVD-fanatic-9]

Originally Posted by shape22

Applying silly PC standards to Roger Corman genre films is a losing proposition. It sounds like you'd be happier watching ridiculously manipulative Hollywood "evil white people" propaganda like Haggis's Crash.

So long as you're judging me based on what it "sounds" like I think; good call... Let me tell you what you sound like- a guy who defends a bad movie because it can never be PC. Kinda dumb.

Oh, and by the way: Piranha. Remember the part where I said that movie was one of the best horror films of the 1970's? I've actually said that several times in the last couple years. What do you assume I think is PC about that one?

Originally Posted by shape22

And were you really expecting something as stately and respectable as Wise's The Haunting from a film called Humanoids From The Deep? I have a tough time believing anyone could approach this film 32 years post-release with expectations as out of whack as yours.

Filmmakers like Corman and Kaufman made films like this to amuse people frustrated by the boundaries of polite society--and to anger close-minded reactionaries. Congratulations for taking the bait.

I didn't exactly expect anyone on this board to agree with me. But, what difference does it make to you how many Corman and Troma movies I've seen? If Corman makes a cash-in on Piranha, and decides to follow that same formula by putting in a social issue plot, based on Piranha's intelligence and the fact that the director was a woman AND the original cast and crew had nothing but lofty intentions with this film... how the hell can you argue I'm the one who didn't know what to expect? Filmmakers have been using the guise of the history / reputation of cheap 50's (and therebouts) exploitation, sci-fi, monster, creature, and thing-from-the-deep flicks to make diversive, challenging, intelligent, high-quality low-budget films for nearly a decade on either side of Humanoids. I hope you bore that in mind before you made your cheap reply with intent to bury me by labeling me a Crash-lover.

For your information, I happen to think VERY highly of (most of) the films Jim Wynorski made for Roger Corman- not a single one of them the slightest bit socially progressive. Do you know how many members of this board were actually willing to back me up when I say I believe Sorority House Massacre 2 is a great flick? I counted 1. Yet, there's a huge difference between a movie where women take their tops off and a movie where women are slowly and graphically manhandled by not just men by alien monsters, their bodies left on the ground in graphic position long after being raped- used as screen decoration, impregnated and then forced to DIE / be further mutilated while giving birth in a wholly meritless "shock" scene. By creatures that rip their bodies apart. We are talking about a film that is in no uncertain terms about rape itself. Taking what exploitation movies would deem an easy target and treating women as utter garbage. In as many ways as they can. I'm sorry, but the defense that something is great merely because it's offensive is pure bullshit. And I think even the people who've made some of what you'd defend would agree with me. Nothing is effective or great without knowing what the fuck it's doing.

Yes, on one level, nobody who keeps the film alive in any circle will ever take it seriously. But we're not just talking about boobs. Troma've made a great many movie celebrating pointless T&A. And I'm not stupid enough to label Corman anything because of this one serious misstep. Nor did I. I laid the blame where it belongs: on the people who say it's so great without taking responsibility for the kind of movie they're supporting.

Originally Posted by Anthropophagus

You are aware of the term 'exploitation film', a term which has been applied to Corman's catalog extensively. It's also called Humanoids From The Deep and the poster art is hardly misleading-were you expecting Fried Green Tomatoes or Driving Miss Daisy? The shit you criticize so vehemently in this post is exactly what most fans of late seventies and eighties horror look for. Aspects the genre has become known for: Silly effects, laughable subplots, excessive T&A, subpar acting, violence, and a degree of unfortunate misogny which is intrinsic to North American society not just horror films. I suppose the woman getting a blade in her vagina in The Mutilator was not misogynistic at all? How about the twenty minute rape scene in I Spit On Your Grave which borders on rape porn not unlike Forced Entry? The woman getting hung up like a piece of meat in Texas Chainsaw Massacre?
'What a wide world of equal opportunity this film envisioned. Of course, let's take the director at her own word'-You were expecting a film with Humanoids in the title to become some sort of beacon for the feminist movement? Is that it?
Really criticizing an exploitation film for being exploitative is akin to criticizing gangsta rap for promoting criminal ideology-moot point-either you can live with it or not, if not don't watch or listen.
You didn't like it, it seems like tons of people on this board did, refer to the recent poll for more evidence. You can always stick to homogenized shit like Scream and I Know What You Did Last Summer.

EXCEPT FOR THE VERY LAST SENTENCE OF YOUR POST (hope I'm making that crystal clear), that is a very excellent point. All of it.

However, I think I'm going to need you to put "unfortunate misogny which is intrinsic to North American society" into perspective. What real-life events were films roughly similar to Humanoids sincerely a comment on? I won't doubt you that exploitation films did in fact do some of that. But, I'm arguing that this film is different. The degree to which this movie treats women like shit MUST be taken into account separately from any movie merely doing something that could be deemed misogynistic. And that degree shown in Humanoids is much more telling of that film than anything in society.

I hope you weren't assuming I have anything complimentary to say about I Spit on Your Grave at all. And, as for you bringing it up at all, I don't believe I had to say that movie was as bad or worse than Humanoids to voice a criticism about Humanoids.

I see what you were attempting to suggest by mentioning Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but I do have to punch you a little for that one. That film is one of THE... GREAT achievements in horror, ALL-TIME great achievements, and can never, on any level, be compared to something like Humanoids from the Deep. EVER. And I'm seriously offended by your doing so...but I'll get over it. I still, however, see what you were trying to say and you have a decent point. In context far removed from Humanoids (FAR FAR FAR removed). That film actually and honestly had an intelligent point to make about people being treated like meat. That scene can only be accused of treating her differently than the men because she had previously been allowed to see more horror, more inside the nightmare of that "family"'s world. In a more cheap way of regarding the scene, she got a better role than the other guys in the movie. Not because she got killed. That's another thing entirely. She got a better role because what she saw in that sequence previous to being caught by Leatherface was so memorable and vital to the film. Its' loose technical-semblance of a story, its' groundbreaking visual motifs and cinematography, and to be even cheaper: that moment that really freaked people out. But also made them very uncomfortable.

And not every horror film can be great because they achieve something that freaks people out or makes them uncomfortable. Despite how that shitty argument has been used by so many Horror-Digital forum members to in vain hopefully score TCM '03 or so much of that French shit (most of) you guys eat up a little credit. It has to have serious cultural, political, psychological, and/or social insight / foresight to be of the merit of Tobe Hooper's Texas Chainsaw Massacre. More than just brutality and the ability to make pretentious kids who just like brutality to spout nonsense and feel good that what they like isn't as dumb and worthless as it actually is.

But I maintain that your post was mostly strong- I clearly didn't express myself very well. Though, that's far from any excuse to suggest that I Know You Did Last Summer must be more up my alley than "late 70's and 80's horror." We merely define the genre in different ways. You see that period more for, I'm guessing: Maniac, Cannibal Holocaust, Spit again, New York Ripper, Mother's Day, House on the Edge of the Park, and - for fun let me throw in something slightly more kid-friendly by comparison - My Bloody Valentine. Mainly: the low points. I choose to see it for the high points: Halloween, Dawn of the Dead, Phantasm, Suspiria, The Evil Dead, Creepshow, American Werewolf in London, Piranha again, The Fog, Videodrome, Tenebre, Q the Winged Serpent, The Shining, Rabid, Cat People, and Nightmare on Elm Street.

And I think Scream is one of the best horror films of the 90's. At least that film had a brain in its' head. Unlike 99% of everything to come afterward. Its' only real flaw is being trendy, making it very dated.

[wago70]

There's just something about PIRANHA that's just oh-so-right.

[shape22]

Originally Posted by DVD-fanatic-9

So long as you're judging me based on what it "sounds" like I think; good call... Let me tell you what you sound like- a guy who defends a bad movie because it can never be PC. Kinda dumb.\

I wasn't making the argument that Humanoids From The Deep is a great film because it flies in the face of political correctness. I was merely pointing out the absurdity of applying highbrow moral standards to pure exploitation films.

It's incongruous for people with apparently delicate sensibilities to spend a significant amount of time posting at horror film websites--unless that sensitivity is posturing to support a position of perceived moral and intellectual superiority. You're obviously upset about the implications I made about you. But you had no problem with suggesting that anyone who likes Humanoids From The Deep is a misogynistic dunce. Isn't that "kinda (sic) dumb" too?

Secure people understand that liking dumb films doesn't make them dumb. It's telling that you can't even voice support for an undeniable genre classic like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre without trying to put a pseudo intellectual spin on it. Do you really believe TTCM is regarded as a all-time great because it makes salient points about "people being treated like meat?" That's exactly the kind of pomposity that led me to mock your post about Humanoids.

[Anthropophagus]

Originally Posted by DVD-fanatic-9

So long as you're judging me based on what it "sounds" like I think; good call... Let me tell you what you sound like- a guy who defends a bad movie because it can never be PC. Kinda dumb.

Oh, and by the way: Piranha. Remember the part where I said that movie was one of the best horror films of the 1970's? I've actually said that several times in the last couple years. What do you assume I think is PC about that one?



I didn't exactly expect anyone on this board to agree with me. But, what difference does it make to you how many Corman and Troma movies I've seen? If Corman makes a cash-in on Piranha, and decides to follow that same formula by putting in a social issue plot, based on Piranha's intelligence and the fact that the director was a woman AND the original cast and crew had nothing but lofty intentions with this film... how the hell can you argue I'm the one who didn't know what to expect? Filmmakers have been using the guise of the history / reputation of cheap 50's (and therebouts) exploitation, sci-fi, monster, creature, and thing-from-the-deep flicks to make diversive, challenging, intelligent, high-quality low-budget films for nearly a decade on either side of Humanoids. I hope you bore that in mind before you made your cheap reply with intent to bury me by labeling me a Crash-lover.

For your information, I happen to think VERY highly of (most of) the films Jim Wynorski made for Roger Corman- not a single one of them the slightest bit socially progressive. Do you know how many members of this board were actually willing to back me up when I say I believe Sorority House Massacre 2 is a great flick? I counted 1. Yet, there's a huge difference between a movie where women take their tops off and a movie where women are slowly and graphically manhandled by not just men by alien monsters, their bodies left on the ground in graphic position long after being raped- used as screen decoration, impregnated and then forced to DIE / be further mutilated while giving birth in a wholly meritless "shock" scene. By creatures that rip their bodies apart. We are talking about a film that is in no uncertain terms about rape itself. Taking what exploitation movies would deem an easy target and treating women as utter garbage. In as many ways as they can. I'm sorry, but the defense that something is great merely because it's offensive is pure bullshit. And I think even the people who've made some of what you'd defend would agree with me. Nothing is effective or great without knowing what the fuck it's doing.

Yes, on one level, nobody who keeps the film alive in any circle will ever take it seriously. But we're not just talking about boobs. Troma've made a great many movie celebrating pointless T&A. And I'm not stupid enough to label Corman anything because of this one serious misstep. Nor did I. I laid the blame where it belongs: on the people who say it's so great without taking responsibility for the kind of movie they're supporting.




EXCEPT FOR THE VERY LAST SENTENCE OF YOUR POST (hope I'm making that crystal clear), that is a very excellent point. All of it.

However, I think I'm going to need you to put "unfortunate misogny which is intrinsic to North American society" into perspective. What real-life events were films roughly similar to Humanoids sincerely a comment on? I won't doubt you that exploitation films did in fact do some of that. But, I'm arguing that this film is different. The degree to which this movie treats women like shit MUST be taken into account separately from any movie merely doing something that could be deemed misogynistic. And that degree shown in Humanoids is much more telling of that film than anything in society.

I hope you weren't assuming I have anything complimentary to say about I Spit on Your Grave at all. And, as for you bringing it up at all, I don't believe I had to say that movie was as bad or worse than Humanoids to voice a criticism about Humanoids.

I see what you were attempting to suggest by mentioning Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but I do have to punch you a little for that one. That film is one of THE... GREAT achievements in horror, ALL-TIME great achievements, and can never, on any level, be compared to something like Humanoids from the Deep. EVER. And I'm seriously offended by your doing so...but I'll get over it. I still, however, see what you were trying to say and you have a decent point. In context far removed from Humanoids (FAR FAR FAR removed). That film actually and honestly had an intelligent point to make about people being treated like meat. That scene can only be accused of treating her differently than the men because she had previously been allowed to see more horror, more inside the nightmare of that "family"'s world. In a more cheap way of regarding the scene, she got a better role than the other guys in the movie. Not because she got killed. That's another thing entirely. She got a better role because what she saw in that sequence previous to being caught by Leatherface was so memorable and vital to the film. Its' loose technical-semblance of a story, its' groundbreaking visual motifs and cinematography, and to be even cheaper: that moment that really freaked people out. But also made them very uncomfortable.

And not every horror film can be great because they achieve something that freaks people out or makes them uncomfortable. Despite how that shitty argument has been used by so many Horror-Digital forum members to in vain hopefully score TCM '03 or so much of that French shit (most of) you guys eat up a little credit. It has to have serious cultural, political, psychological, and/or social insight / foresight to be of the merit of Tobe Hooper's Texas Chainsaw Massacre. More than just brutality and the ability to make pretentious kids who just like brutality to spout nonsense and feel good that what they like isn't as dumb and worthless as it actually is.

But I maintain that your post was mostly strong- I clearly didn't express myself very well. Though, that's far from any excuse to suggest that I Know You Did Last Summer must be more up my alley than "late 70's and 80's horror." We merely define the genre in different ways. You see that period more for, I'm guessing: Maniac, Cannibal Holocaust, Spit again, New York Ripper, Mother's Day, House on the Edge of the Park, and - for fun let me throw in something slightly more kid-friendly by comparison - My Bloody Valentine. Mainly: the low points. I choose to see it for the high points: Halloween, Dawn of the Dead, Phantasm, Suspiria, The Evil Dead, Creepshow, American Werewolf in London, Piranha again, The Fog, Videodrome, Tenebre, Q the Winged Serpent, The Shining, Rabid, Cat People, and Nightmare on Elm Street.

And I think Scream is one of the best horror films of the 90's. At least that film had a brain in its' head. Unlike 99% of everything to come afterward. Its' only real flaw is being trendy, making it very dated.

Likewise you have very sound arguments rooted in logical intellectual thought and a gift for debate, which renders this debate a bit of a moot point as we could go on ad infinitum. We'll just agree to disagree on this one.

[bigdaddyhorse]

It's not a film for everyone, but is a pretty blu ray (quality-wise, content is up to the viewer). Anyone with any interest should check out the making of, it's fascinating.

[ronnie21]

Hey. i wonder how shocking was humunoids to people in 1980 when it came out???

[wago70]

I don't remember hearing ANYTHING and I trolled the newspapers big time for anything horror movie related (especially since Friday the 13th was known for its shocking effects). So many kids in my school were actually able to see this during it's very brief release. When I finally saw it on cable in 1981, I got a kick out of it but seeing those films that were common on "Showtime After Hours", the attack scenes were tame. Gory but tame otherwise to my then 11 year old eyes. Watched it on VHS in 1983 with two families and nobody batted an eye but LOVED that last scene.

[ronnie21]

i seen the tent scene on cable in summer of 81. and was like wow, whats this? i was only 9..

[DVD-fanatic-9]

Originally Posted by shape22

I wasn't making the argument that Humanoids From The Deep is a great film because it flies in the face of political correctness. I was merely pointing out the absurdity of applying highbrow moral standards to pure exploitation films.

It's incongruous for people with apparently delicate sensibilities to spend a significant amount of time posting at horror film websites--unless that sensitivity is posturing to support a position of perceived moral and intellectual superiority. You're obviously upset about the implications I made about you. But you had no problem with suggesting that anyone who likes Humanoids From The Deep is a misogynistic dunce. Isn't that "kinda (sic) dumb" too?

Secure people understand that liking dumb films doesn't make them dumb. It's telling that you can't even voice support for an undeniable genre classic like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre without trying to put a pseudo intellectual spin on it. Do you really believe TTCM is regarded as a all-time great because it makes salient points about "people being treated like meat?" That's exactly the kind of pomposity that led me to mock your post about Humanoids.

I really don't want to be the kind of guy who just replies with some brainless snark like: "what did you eat- bullshit for breakfast?" and then walks off trying to look superior. I'm not that kind of guy. Never have been, never will be. That said: holy shit are you full of it!

I have every right to challenge any view on horror. You seem to basically be pissing on my opinion because it doesn't fall in-line with enjoying (in this case) clearly misogynistic shit for no good reason, which you're claiming everyone else does. I have been dismissing and fighting that kind of attitude on movies for almost 15 years. That just because a movie looks dumb, it must be dumb. But am I really bashing people for not seeing deeper into this movie? No. I have never cared about what reasons people have for liking something. I have never argued that I should be the ultimate authority on what everyone must think about each movie or even the horror genre.

But I do think it's important what opinion gets out there, forming the popular reptuation on a film. I saw Humanoids because people said it was a great film. A LOT of people said it was a great film. And most, if not all, of those people are also the ones who got me to see Piranha. AN EXTRORADINARILY INTELLIGENT, CULTURALLY RELEVANT, SOCIO-POLITICALLY CHARGED AND DARING FILM. The kind of movie that teaches us not to ever assume a movie will be dumb because it's also cheap and might be sleazy. Or, let's say, produced by Roger Corman. And, do you know what? I said all of this in previous replies. I might look pompous but I sure as fuck wasn't born yesterday.

Though, now here you are, claiming that - am I right about this? - if the majority of people who see Texas Chainsaw Massacre decide it's a genre classic because it's about "guy kills people and uses them for meat," that that is in fact what makes it great? Again...I don't want to be that guy, but you are really asking for it so: what are you, somebody else's DOG? You follow other people, regardless of what stupid thing they ask you to swallow? Fuck that. I've never lived or formed an opinion that way and never will. (Of course, if I was wrong- feel free to correct me.)

All I came here to do was voice a dissenting opinion on a movie. I like to see different opinions actually get out there and no one else had anything negative to say about the movie. 3 people have gotten that and replied challenging my view but without claiming I insulted them. You got bored and decided you wanted a little row.

[crikan]

Originally Posted by ronnie21

Hey. i wonder how shocking was humunoids to people in 1980 when it came out???

Being born in 1975 with conservative and attentive parents I completely missed just about all of the really sleazy pictures of the 70's and 80's until recently. This includes just about every Corman production. One of the things that has shocked me is how much rape is there was in film back then. It sure seems like it's been less prevalant over the past 20 years. It also seems like "monster rape" is fairly common in Corman pictures of the time. So I'd think people back in 1980 would be less shocked by Hummaniods than people watching for the first time in 2012.

[DVD-fanatic-9]

Ebert was pretty fucking shocked that audiences cheered the rapes of the "heroine" from I Spit on Your Grave. The original, of course.

[shape22]

Originally Posted by DVD-fanatic-9

All I came here to do was voice a dissenting opinion on a movie. I like to see different opinions actually get out there and no one else had anything negative to say about the movie. 3 people have gotten that and replied challenging my view but without claiming I insulted them. You got bored and decided you wanted a little row.

You're 100% entitled to your own opinions. I would never dispute that--or discourage you from having them or expressing them. But the tone of your original post was confrontational. Are you really claiming that you didn't suggest or insinuate that there was something shameful and unevolved about liking Humanoids? If you truly feel your post was respectful and non-judgmental about people who like that film, I'd say you're in denial.

I take full responsibility for my confrontational tone. It was a direct response to your chosen manner of communication. That said, I obviously didn't accomplish anything productive. So in future I'll let others defend the right to enjoy the most lowbrow, un-PC films.

[foller]

Could someone tell me how the spine of the Piranha Blu actally looks like?
On the official pictures of the single disc it has a plain redish spine but on the pictures of the Blu bundle it has the typical Corman Line spine. So what is true?