The Internet is destroying America.

[old-boo-radley]

I understand we all have a nostalgia for video rental stores and retail outlets, but Jesus... the net is why you can buy all these niche films we enjoy. It's the absolute greatest thing that could have ever happened to us. If I couldn't order online, no way would I have likely ever found half of the cool shit I have. Instead of having to go to the rental stores, I basically have a video store. With Netflix, everyone does. If we could have had this 25 years ago, we'd have taken it in a heartbeat.

What pisses me off is you go to a used video game store and they check Ebay listings for prices anyways, even for common shit. Doesn't really give much incentive to go there. Don't get me wrong, they have a right to a fair asking price, but as a customer you've got to give me a reason to go to your store.

[maybrick]

Originally Posted by old-boo-radley

I understand we all have a nostalgia for video rental stores and retail outlets, but Jesus... the net is why you can buy all these niche films we enjoy. It's the absolute greatest thing that could have ever happened to us. If I couldn't order online, no way would I have likely ever found half of the cool shit I have. Instead of having to go to the rental stores, I basically have a video store. With Netflix, everyone does. If we could have had this 25 years ago, we'd have taken it in a heartbeat.

What pisses me off is you go to a used video game store and they check Ebay listings for prices anyways, even for common shit. Doesn't really give much incentive to go there. Don't get me wrong, they have a right to a fair asking price, but as a customer you've got to give me a reason to go to your store.

I'm not just talking movies, I'm talking about everything. Want a blanket? Check Amazon. Leaf blower? Check Amazon. Can of beans? Hey, let's check out what amazon has for deals. It's one stop shopping. If you see something in a store you're interested in, you ask the clerk and maybe you'll get a boatload of information from him, with which you'll use your new knowledge to go to Amazon and buy it for cheaper. This of course does nothing to keep that business around as a future source of info or service, but hey, at least you just saved yourself a few bucks. Don't get me wrong, I do the same things as everybody else here but at least I know that this behavior is damaging in the long term.

(and btw, I'd consider not having to pay for shipping from ebay and having to wait a couple of weeks for delivery from some sketchy stranger justification enough to frequent a local retailer if he has the same product at around the same price.)

[old-boo-radley]

Originally Posted by maybrick

I'm not just talking movies, I'm talking about everything. Want a blanket? Check Amazon. Leaf blower? Check Amazon. Can of beans? Hey, let's check out what amazon has for deals. It's one stop shopping. If you see something in a store you're interested in, you ask the clerk and maybe you'll get a boatload of information from him, with which you'll use your new knowledge to go to Amazon and buy it for cheaper. This of course does nothing to keep that business around as a future source of info or service, but hey, at least you just saved yourself a few bucks. Don't get me wrong, I do the same things as everybody else here but at least I know that this behavior is damaging in the long term.

(and btw, I'd consider not having to pay for shipping from ebay and having to wait a couple of weeks for delivery from some sketchy stranger justification enough to frequent a local retailer if he has the same product at around the same price.)

I understand what you're saying to an extent, don't get me wrong, it's just naturally people are going to buy stuff at the lowest price they can at the greatest of convenience. I also agree with the ethics of not just going to a store and draining the guy of knowledge and buying stuff cheaper elsewhere, but that happens all the time even in normal stores. There's a place here where I buy my beer kits from that I would support over a lower price alternative because if they stop selling them, I can't get them locally and the people there are really nice. But in terms of a leaf blower or blanket, it's either Amazon or a retail store chain, so you're just picking the lesser of two evils. But who the lesser of those evils is remains tough to solve. Retail stores don't carry the movies I like - Amazon does. And it is my belief only by outlets like Amazon or Deep Discount do these niche products exist because the market just wouldn't be big enough for them town by town. If the independent store has a fair price compared to the alternatives and good people working there, I think they can thrive. The problem is that courtesy from years gone by simply isn't there anymore, so people don't have loyalty.

This particular used game store is a couple hours away, my town is too small to have something like that, but they seem to charge the higher end BIN prices on Ebay from the sellers who just let shit rot on there. When I went there, I didn't even care if I got steals just so I could get stuff that I needed without having to check Ebay daily, but shit. USPS shipping to Canada has gotten so high that it would make certain items at the store a bit better of a deal now. I'd venture to say me giving another video gamer money to buy new games for himself, or if he's in a rough patch, to put food on the table that it's just as good if not better than supporting a mom & pop store. Especially since that indie (or any) store would pay $2 to someone for the rare game they're selling for $100 in the blink of an eye. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it myself. But just knowing the ways of the world, it's tough to feel sorry for them.

I get what you mean, though, I'm not busting your balls and I'm tending to look at it from the perspective of niche products rather than everything. But even if you put everything into the equation, I don't see what the difference is between buying a leaf blower online or in a store. Just because you buy something at the 7-11 down the street doesn't mean the person who owns the place is local and the profit is staying within the community. And without internet retailers, I don't think you have companies like Shriek Show, Code Red, you certainly don't have musicians selling their own music to the degree they can now or indie filmmakers getting their movies out there. The internet gives the people of Mudlick, Kentucky the same connectivity with the world, shopping, everything as people in New York City or even fuckin' Paris or Hong Kong. To me, that's borderline magic, not destruction.

[maybrick]

There is a slight difference between chains and franchises. Big box stores (Walmart, Circuit City, Borders) are chains and they aren't locally owned. If the corporation that owns the store goes out of business then the store closes it's doors. However, places like fast food restaurants (McDonald's), convenience stores (7-Eleven) and hardware stores (True Value) are franchises, locally owned and licensed to sell a particular product from a specific supplier. They're tied to a nationally recognized chain, true, but in this situation if the Corporation goes bust the stores or restaurants can still stay open if they want to, they'll simply lose their license to that trademark and have to change their name. At least, that is my understanding.

If you live out in the middle of the boonies then mail order is your only option, same as it ever was. However, most locally owned stores (as in non-chains) if you live near one can easily order anything you want and often get it to you sooner than you would ordering it yourself, so using the excuse that what you want isn't sitting on the shelf is a bit of a cop out, no offense.

When it comes to companies like Code Red et al, the internet is a double edged sword. They have a host of other problems. Yeah, the internet allows for more people to know about their product, but it also allows for people to easily steal their product, too. Also, one reason that there are so few cult movie labels now is because they lost shelf space in stores to more mainstream product. A huge part of their profitability stemmed from being blind buys from store fronts. When Borders and Best Buys stopped stocking copies of their titles it really hit their bottom line.

[Chomp]

http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=hypocrisy

[maybrick]

Originally Posted by Chomp

http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=hypocrisy

I never once said that I never used the internet to purchase things, but nice try in attempting to squelch conversation.

[old-boo-radley]

Originally Posted by maybrick

There is a slight difference between chains and franchises. Big box stores (Walmart, Circuit City, Borders) are chains and they aren't locally owned. If the corporation that owns the store goes out of business then the store closes it's doors. However, places like fast food restaurants (McDonald's), convenience stores (7-Eleven) and hardware stores (True Value) are franchises, locally owned and licensed to sell a particular product from a specific supplier. They're tied to a nationally recognized chain, true, but in this situation if the Corporation goes bust the stores or restaurants can still stay open if they want to, they'll simply lose their license to that trademark and have to change their name. At least, that is my understanding.

If you live out in the middle of the boonies then mail order is your only option, same as it ever was. However, most locally owned stores (as in non-chains) if you live near one can easily order anything you want and often get it to you sooner than you would ordering it yourself, so using the excuse that what you want isn't sitting on the shelf is a bit of a cop out, no offense.

When it comes to companies like Code Red et al, the internet is a double edged sword. They have a host of other problems. Yeah, the internet allows for more people to know about their product, but it also allows for people to easily steal their product, too. Also, one reason that there are so few cult movie labels now is because they lost shelf space in stores to more mainstream product. A huge part of their profitability stemmed from being blind buys from store fronts. When Borders and Best Buys stopped stocking copies of their titles it really hit their bottom line.

What I meant was the people who own the 7-11 aren't always from your town, they just own the store there because it makes them money. So many places here are like that.

There's a huge difference between old style mail order and getting stuff off the internet, though. It's the same thing only at its most basic level. When I used to special order in movies years ago, they'd be $25-$30. The internet allows everyone to get things at a price point that is on par with what everyone else gets, so there's no comparison. The whole purpose of the retail store is to be able to go in and get it right away, so why would anyone go and order a DVD and pay a premium price through a mom & pop store when I can get it from a store online that has it in stock without even leaving my home once, let alone once to go and order it and again to pick it up, costing more in fuel and taking up time? It sucks, but there is a reason the mom & pop middle man in special ordering situations like that is being cut out because it is no longer necessary. If people in bigger centers are ordering online instead of going to the stores they have available, what does that tell you about how much better it is than going to physical stores? And if small town people can get the exact same service, products and prices as people in New York, it's winning all around. It'd be like riding a horse instead of driving a car.

Everything generally evolves into something better. When I was a teen buying albums, I fucking paid $20 per CD for a song or two I liked for the most part. Someone came along, re-invented the wheel and now I can buy those two songs for a dollar each? Fuck yeah, I'm doing that! Everyone would have done that before if given the chance, they just couldn't. And that just opens new jobs at the improved way of doing things, unfortunately the people involved in the old way lose theirs because it's no longer necessary. I just don't understand what difference it makes if people still are getting exactly what they want. To use video stores as an example, since everyone here has such fond memories... video stores back then totally sucked compared to what we have available now. It was great for its time, but that's it. If you wanted to see a movie you saw in a trailer at the beginning of a Wizard Video and the store didn't carry it, you were fucked. Now, it's a click away. How is that bad?

Piracy is an issue, but again, the companies just need to evolve. I doubt any genre label could make the money they do without all the free internet advertising they get just from being online and having people talking and surely they're not likely to get their products into stores, even if mom & pop ones were still around, even taking piracy into consideration. It's all just a different way of doing things and the different way of doing things creates new opportunities. So mom & pop stores went out of business, but now you can have your own small online stores, or put out your own movie or album on the net and sell it to people. You can even still get Zubaz pants online, and you can't tell me that company could still be in business if their website didn't reach out to the entire country so everyone who likes those pants has a chance to get them. So whoever runs the Zubaz pants website is basically a mom & pop store for that small group of people. Mom & Pop stores are all over the internet run by the same people with the same employees, just without a physical store. Doesn't mean they care any less or should be thought of as anything less. It's all the same thing, just done differently.

[maybrick]

You're talking about it all from a buyers point of view, NOT from an employment point of view. The Internet is without a shadow of a doubt a boon to customers. By and large it is NOT a boon to retailers, as is evident in the rampant deflation of prices. Profit margins used to be 60% on electronics. Now a retailer is lucky to make 20% on a $400 TV set that only a few short years ago sold for $1300. At 60% a business could expand, hire more workers, etc. At 20% it takes out even big retailers like Circuit City. It's all a race to the bottom with no end in sight. Again, yeah times change and businesses have to adapt or die, but the end result will be literally a handful of mega corporations holding vast monopolies on retail with only a skeleton crew of employees.

[ronnie21]

Its funny, this guy i work says the internet is the antichrist.. And also, to add to this. it has put certain people out of work. it has put alot of people behind bars. and it has broken up friendships and ruined many marriages. Its like putting loaded guns in peoples hands.. and how bout that poor lady who got busted downloading songs off the net and had to pay a 4 grand fine.. You wernt hearing about that type of stuff in 1981. In the early 80's if you got out of the store, you got away...

[maybrick]

Originally Posted by old-boo-radley

When I was a teen buying albums, I fucking paid $20 per CD for a song or two I liked for the most part. Someone came along, re-invented the wheel and now I can buy those two songs for a dollar each? Fuck yeah, I'm doing that! Everyone would have done that before if given the chance, they just couldn't.

Actually, they could. Once upon a time there was such a thing as 45s and CD singles. I used to buy them all of the time when I was a kid.

[Shlockjock81]

Originally Posted by Chomp

http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=hypocrisy

^^ This.

[maybrick]

Originally Posted by Shlockjock81

^^ This.

And you're yet another person who doesn't understand the true meaning of the word. Merely discussing the downside of something doesn't make one a hypocrite. If you subscribe to cable does that mean that you don't have a right to complain about the cable company? If you vote, does that mean that you should sit down and shut up if you don't like the electoral college system? If you like going to see live music, does that mean that you deserve to be raped by Ticketmaster surcharges?

No it doesn't.

[Shlockjock81]

Cool story brah.

Keep whining.

[maybrick]

Originally Posted by Shlockjock81

Cool story brah.

Keep whining.

Well now you're just behaving like a typical internet troll. It's fine if you disagree with me, but If you have nothing intelligent to add to this discussion, then there are plenty of other threads on this board to participate in.

[Chomp]

Originally Posted by X-human

In other words the "free market" and "deregulation" is killing America.

Yeah...I think America's economic problems are a little more deep seeded than people downloading free music/movies from the Internet. I mean, banks have been playing Russian Roulette with our finances way before the internet was even invented.

I blame Reagan.