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Old 11-15-2013, 05:03 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie21 View Post
can you imagine if that 3rd channel didn't turn off, which looks like it didn't, how much of a mess peoples houses would be, crawly with poisonous snakes and bugs..
Mess? There would be neighborhoods full of dead people. Areas would practically revert back to nature. I spray every month and around summer/winter seasons. I don't want to see anything in my house. Outside is where that stuff belongs. I freak out if I see any crawly bug inside which I haven't in years.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:37 AM   #62
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As much as I loved (and still love) that movie, I have a hard time believing that the vast majority of parents wouldn't have just cut off the curse inducing "trademark" with a pair of scissors before "The Big Night", and thus circumventing widespread Armageddon. Am I wrong? The thing seriously just looked like a great place for a price tag to me.

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Old 11-15-2013, 02:55 PM   #63
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I've replied in other threads but I'll repeat my thought that if this movie was titled anything other than Halloween it would have had a bigger box office and instant success. The title and lack of connection to H1 &H2 (bait and switch) killed it more than anything else. I love this movie.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:24 AM   #64
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They should have just called this Season Of The Witch. You can't call the movie Halloween with no Michael Myers. Still love this movie as it succeeded in creeping me out.
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:56 AM   #65
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They should have just called this Season Of The Witch. You can't call the movie Halloween with no Michael Myers. Still love this movie as it succeeded in creeping me out.
EXACTLY! The first two movies were great with Myers! But this one stood on its own. It captures a lot of the Halloween festivity, all that "magic" and stuff around it. It's a classic! Love this one.

Michael Myers is OK, though... in its movies. It's just H3 is something completely apart and great as standalone.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:48 PM   #66
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My sentiments towards this movie were never dictated by the absense of Michael Myers (a figure which I admittedly find supremely effective). There are some plot points which are simply too ridiculous for this to be a masterpiece. The worst two offenders being:

1. One character is suddenly a robot. It doesn't make sense within the story (otherwise, said robot would have acted against the sabotaging hero sooner) and is obviously just an attempt at a final scare.

2. Are we to believe that EVERY child would own or even want one of those three masks? What about all those who wore home-made costumes or (conceivably cooler) masks by competitors? The success of the ploy would be limited, and EXTREMELY easily traced back to its perpetrator.

That said, this movie does have its place among my favourites, and I've come to enjoy more with every viewing. But it's gone from having a bad reputation to being hailed as a misunderstood classic with such conviction that many seem to believe it's a better movie than it actually is.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:20 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Kim Bruun View Post
My sentiments towards this movie were never dictated by the absense of Michael Myers (a figure which I admittedly find supremely effective). There are some plot points which are simply too ridiculous for this to be a masterpiece. The worst two offenders being:

1. One character is suddenly a robot. It doesn't make sense within the story (otherwise, said robot would have acted against the sabotaging hero sooner) and is obviously just an attempt at a final scare.

2. Are we to believe that EVERY child would own or even want one of those three masks? What about all those who wore home-made costumes or (conceivably cooler) masks by competitors? The success of the ploy would be limited, and EXTREMELY easily traced back to its perpetrator.

That said, this movie does have its place among my favourites, and I've come to enjoy more with every viewing. But it's gone from having a bad reputation to being hailed as a misunderstood classic with such conviction that many seem to believe it's a better movie than it actually is.
1. I always thought she was changed when they captured her near the end. In that sense it works fine.

2. As for the masks, it's a movie. Movies always have things like this since the don't have the license to show kids wearing Batman, Superman, Jason, ect. costumes.
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Old 11-20-2013, 08:50 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by spawningblue View Post
1. I always thought she was changed when they captured her near the end. In that sense it works fine.

2. As for the masks, it's a movie. Movies always have things like this since the don't have the license to show kids wearing Batman, Superman, Jason, ect. costumes.
1. If that were the case, Cochran must have an instant person duplicator, which is stretching the dramatic license quite a bit. And even if he did, wouldn't she have acted against the hero sooner?

2. Even so, Cochran's products would be unlikely to edge everything else out of the market.

Sounds like you're making excuses for the film. Like I said, I enjoy it, and would even rank it among my favourites. But I enjoy it on its own terms - as a flawed fun flick with some cool ideas and great atmosphere.
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:17 PM   #69
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim Bruun View Post
My sentiments towards this movie were never dictated by the absense of Michael Myers (a figure which I admittedly find supremely effective). There are some plot points which are simply too ridiculous for this to be a masterpiece. The worst two offenders being:

1. One character is suddenly a robot. It doesn't make sense within the story (otherwise, said robot would have acted against the sabotaging hero sooner) and is obviously just an attempt at a final scare.

2. Are we to believe that EVERY child would own or even want one of those three masks? What about all those who wore home-made costumes or (conceivably cooler) masks by competitors? The success of the ploy would be limited, and EXTREMELY easily traced back to its perpetrator.

That said, this movie does have its place among my favourites, and I've come to enjoy more with every viewing. But it's gone from having a bad reputation to being hailed as a misunderstood classic with such conviction that many seem to believe it's a better movie than it actually is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spawningblue View Post
1. I always thought she was changed when they captured her near the end. In that sense it works fine.

2. As for the masks, it's a movie. Movies always have things like this since the don't have the license to show kids wearing Batman, Superman, Jason, ect. costumes.
1. I agree with spawningblue.
Spoiler:
A switcheroo took place between Ellie's kidnap and their eventual "rescue." You would need to suspend your disbelief regarding the amount of time required to construct an exact replica of a human being, but that's just Hollywood storytelling.


2.
Spoiler:
I don't think Conal Cochran's plot necessarily required every child to own a mask. If he gets masks to even 1 out of every 100 children, we're still looking at a massive ritualistic sacrifice that could involve as many as 500,000 children or more nationwide. Wouldn't that be more than enough to satisfy just about any bloodthirsty pagan god?

The ploy's success is whether or not the masks are triggered when they're supposed to, not whether or not the perpetrators are caught. I don't think being caught in the aftermath was of any concern.
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:37 PM   #70
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1. I think that when you are dealing with something that is already pretty fantastical, you can either say "all bets are off, anything goes", or try to create a believable scenario around the fantastical elements. I prefer the latter - fantastical elements simply don't relieve you of the obligations of good storytelling. And here, the switcheroo doesn't make sense - it's a lazy gimmick used to deliver one final scare.

2. That, on the other hand, is a good point. However, it would mean that Cochran's ritualistic sacrifice would be more or less a one-shot thing - from him at least.
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:01 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim Bruun View Post
1. I think that when you are dealing with something that is already pretty fantastical, you can either say "all bets are off, anything goes", or try to create a believable scenario around the fantastical elements. I prefer the latter - fantastical elements simply don't relieve you of the obligations of good storytelling. And here, the switcheroo doesn't make sense - it's a lazy gimmick used to deliver one final scare.

2. That, on the other hand, is a good point. However, it would mean that Cochran's ritualistic sacrifice would be more or less a one-shot thing - from him at least.
1.
Spoiler:
In this case, I would say the switch was a logical conclusion to the other major plot point of the film; Conal Cochran has developed a series of virtually undetectable androids to serve his will and protect his secrets from getting out. I agree that it's a stretch of plausibility that Cochran could have had an Ellie android fully prepared and operational within such a short period of time, but really not any more than the fact that he's developed these androids in the first place, given the available technology of 1982.

It doesn't strike me as being much less plausible than the various goings on in most sci-fi films that have come before or since. The Terminator is a notable example that springs to mind.


2.
Spoiler:
The ritualistic sacrifice is probably a one-time thing for Conal whether he's caught or not. The last great Samhain was stated by Cochran to have taken place 3,000 years prior to the events of the film and I think it's a safe assumption that the next may not be for another 3,000 years after when the planets realign.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085636/...item=qt0130125
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:13 AM   #72
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Cochran probably had tons of automatons lying around. All he really needed was the skin covering and he had Elie for close to 24 hours. In theory, if she was killed the moment she entered the factory (after being kidnapped) they could have stripped her down and dipped her entire body in plaster of Paris to make a cast. From there, it wouldn't take too long to do the rest. In theory. Plus, Considering how dimly lit the factory was and how preoccupied Tom was, it doesn't take too much of a leap for me to see how he might not notice how off she was.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:50 AM   #73
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The fact that lifelike automatons can be made is a condition of the movie. But for me to suspend my disbelief, the process of this would have to be complicated - not something you can pull out of a hat. Even if they have the basic parts lying around, how long do you think it would take a team of special effects artists to assemble a lifelike human body?

I also maintain that if the objective of the switcharoo android was to stop the hero from revealing the villains plan to the world, wouldn't it have been easier if it had moved against him during the final showdown? Why wait? Or did some surviving baddie switch her as she was leaving the factory?

But... It's one lazily executed twist in a movie that I do not admire for its plot structural integrity anyway. To me, this movie's strengths lie entirely elsewhere, and it is for those that I enjoy it.
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:25 PM   #74
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But for me to suspend my disbelief, the process of this would have to be complicated - not something you can pull out of a hat.
I can totally see why you'd find an issue with this part of the film, but complicated doesn't necessarily mean that it has to take a long time does it? You could have a 1960s computer the size of a room spend five hours solving problems that a modern day smart phone can do in a second. Cochran could create lifelike automatons in 1982 that not even modern day scientists can achieve. It stands to reason that his mask making abilities could be as equally advanced. He has trade secrets that we are not privy to. If I could buy one, then I have little problem buying the other. But yeah, you're right about why Ellie took so long to attack Tom. It's nothing more than a cheap twist. I still like it though.

Last edited by maybrick; 11-21-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:22 PM   #75
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All I know is H III looks, sounds and feels more like a genuine Carpenter "Halloween" than any of the sequels from 4 - Remakes ever did. It's such a beautiful looking film.
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