Craven - what happened?

[Dave]

I watched Last House on the Left from beginning to end yesterday. Image quality wasn't quite as good as I first thought, but it's acceptable. The movie is disturbing for sure, though not quite as much I first suspected. It's a good movie for a variety of reasons. I mostly liked it because it gets you thinking about society and all the sickos that are out there. You go through a lot of emotions watching the movie; Craven makes it hard to stay with just one.

Today I watched a chunk of Nightmare on Elm Street while I was taking some screenshots for Deadites.net. Great movie with a terrifying villan and a creepy score. Definitely need to watch this from start to end soon. It's been years since I've watched it.

What I'm getting at it, after all the Scream crap (I've explained my feelings about this trilogy in the past) and all of this "West Craven Presents" nonsense, I just realize how turned off I've become to anything Craven related. As a result, I've failed to watch many of the Craven movies I do love - Swamp Thing, NOES 1, 3, etc.

Has this happened to anyone else? My NOES box set had a huge layer of dust on top of it when I pulled it out today. It's a shame. I wonder what happened to Craven. Did he sell out after the success of Scream? It seems so.

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David W. Anderson - dave@horrordvds.com
Webmaster - www.horrordvds.com





[This message has been edited by Dave (edited 01-12-2001).]

Personally, I will never see what people see in Last House on the Left. It was decent to be sure but i hardly consider it a horror classic, or even a horror movie for that fact. What especially ruined it for me are the retarded Keystone Cops that ran around like bumbling idiots with a honky-tonk score acompanying them whenever they are on screen. I just cant take a movie seriously with acting like that.

Personally I feel that EVERYTHING Wes Craven has touched is superior to LHOL, that includes NOES, the Scream series, Invitation to Hell, and yes even DEADLY FRIEND (R-rated cut)

[Mark Relford]

Wes Craven has lost his touch over the years. His best movies are Last House (Hess made that movie with his nutso performance!), The Hills Have Eyes, A Nightmare on Elm Street, New Nightmare, and Scream. (For better or worse, it has influenced today's horror scene.) His other movies range from passable to utter shit.
He might as well check himself into a retirement home for horror directors, get a room next to Tobe Hooper.

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"Have you ever had an Egyptian feast?"

"They're back from the grave and ready to party!"


[This message has been edited by Mark Relford (edited 01-12-2001).]

I think The Serpent And The Rainbow deserves a quote as one of Wes Craven's better movies, alongside NOES and THHE.

[n1ghtmare]

Well you'll notice that all the classic films that Craven directed are written by him as well. He hasn't wrote his own script for one of his films in years (New Nightmare being the last), and that's probably the reason his more recent stuff is a little... tepid. He's an amazing writer and he could definitely benefit from doing it again.

[Zombie Keeper]

I recently watched "The Last House on the Left" and while it has its moments, I feel the movie stinks over-all. The music really ruined it for me.

However, it's a good story and I think would make for a good so-called remake, given the right director of course.

NMOE is by far one of my favs, and one of Craven best. I have't seen it in a while but I just bought the newly released DVD and will watch it this weekend.

Originally posted by Dave:
I watched Last House on the Left from beginning to end yesterday. Image quality wasn't quite as good as I first thought, but it's acceptable. The movie is disturbing for sure, though not quite as much I first suspected. It's a good movie for a variety of reasons. I mostly liked it because it gets you thinking about society and all the sickos that are out there. You go through a lot of emotions watching the movie; Craven makes it hard to stay with just one.

Today I watched a chunk of Nightmare on Elm Street while I was taking some screenshots for Deadites.net. Great movie with a terrifying villan and a creepy score. Definitely need to watch this from start to end soon. It's been years since I've watched it.

What I'm getting at it, after all the Scream crap (I've explained my feelings about this trilogy in the past) and all of this "West Craven Presents" nonsense, I just realize how turned off I've become to anything Craven related. As a result, I've failed to watch many of the Craven movies I do love - Swamp Thing, NOES 1, 3, etc.

Has this happened to anyone else? My NOES box set had a huge layer of dust on top of it when I pulled it out today. It's a shame. I wonder what happened to Craven. Did he sell out after the success of Scream? It seems so.

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Zombie Keeper
Zombie Keepers Crypt
Horror Movie Reviews

[TobalRox]

The IMDB says something about him wanting to leave horror to work on other cinema, and that Music of the Heart (1999) was the start of that, or something like that. Maybe this isn't too true since I hear about Dark Wonderland coming out this year.

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"It's a spadoinkle day" -Cannibal: The Musical

AIM: TobalRox
ICQ: 348909

Yeah, I liked Shocker, too. That dude who plays Skinner on the XFiles was the baddie, and I'm quite fond of his acting.

The Hills Have Eyes is a fav of mine. I haven't actually seen LHotL. ANOES - A long time since I've seen it - I keep on holding off buying the R1 set as I'm waiting for the local set to be released.

Serpent and the Rainbow was quite good too.

Let's not forget The People Under the Stairs, complete with two actors from Twin Peaks (a nice touch I thought). A fun film.

And I do like Scream 1 (sorry Dave). Any film that has Drew Barrymore getting gutted in the first 5 minutes will get my seal of approval . I just wish they'd properly release the uncut version.

I have read that Craven has said that he is not doing any more horror films, and concentrating on (well, I can't think of a more fitting term) unmitigated CRAP.
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Oh no, mother! Blood!

[This message has been edited by napalm68 (edited 01-13-2001).]

[joltaddict]

I hope the pattern holds! If you notice in every decade Craven has unleashed a new spin on the horror theme. Last house on the Left spawned a slew of reality based horror movies in the 70s, easing us from the standard "Frankenstein" type fantasy-gothic horror. In the 80's NOES placed the slasher-flick in a fantasy setting, opening the genre up from your standard Holloween rip offs and paving the way for a movie like Hellraiser to get a decent budget.
And everyone here knows the impact Scream had on horror movies in the 90s. You can argue that the rip offs and sequels sucked, but it showed hollywood that horror movies could still make money.
I think it's a good thing that Craven says he won't make more horror movies. This means no more Scream sequels. I feel he will come back to us when he is inspired by a new way to scare us. I don't think that his statement means he is leaving us, I take it as a promise not to continue try to squeeze out another Scream style horror movie.

I make no apologies for considering Scream one of the very best horror films to come along in quite a while (asuridly the number one best slasher film). This is of course only my opinion, but to completely disregard the film is just lame. It is every bit as violent as other so called 'classic' slasher films, every bit as scary, every bit as unnerving (and in my opinion even more so). I believe it to be better written, most deffinatly better acted and an over all more excitting presentation then most others. For the life of me, I can not understand the concept of considering Scream a bad film and yet over praising such fare as The Burning, 2000 Maniacs or Last House on the Left. Scream is without a doubt one of the most supirior genre films to hit the scene, and it just does not make any sense to consider it otherwise. Without Scream we would never have seen this kind of studio interest in the genre

Granted, I have an eccentric taste in movies. I loved such controversial films as Lord of Illusions, The Prophecy trilogy, the Scream trilogy, Naked Lunch, Crash, eXistenZ, UL, IKWYDLS, and many others. Controversial in that they have their overt and loud detracters; but equal in numbers are their fans. And that is something that I think many people are forgetting.

I realize that many people think that the current crop of horror films are too commercial. And yet, these same people go ga-ga over truely commercial films like Star Wars episode one. I mean really, you can not get anymore commercial then Phantom Menace.

Another reason often given for the dislike of Scream is its use of TV star teens. Who cares? This is treuly a lame excuse if ever there was one. Friday the 13th did the same damn thing in case none of you recall. Nightmare on Elm Street is another one. Stop, think and then pass judgement. When you stop and think, you may just realize that this entire debate about the validity of Scream is boarderline pathetic. Its a horror film, it worked, it was widely successful and it was just damn good.

This backlash bandwagon against the Scream films just doesn't make any sense at all.

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-David

"Didn't they tell you Kirsty, the rules of the fairy tale have changed. Not only am I the wicked stepmother, but I'm also the evil queen. So come on! Take your best shot, Snow White!"
- Julia (Claire Higgings)
Hellbound: Hellraiser 2

"If I go crazy then will you still call me Superman?"
... who knows, its on the radio all the time.

[mutleyhyde]

Umm... what T.V. star teens were in Friday the 13th or NOES? Okay, so Bacon was on a soap for a while, but everyone else pretty much ended up on T.V. AFTER starring in these movies. That's not quite what's happening these days. And, just for the record, I hated Phantom Menace; if I want to see the chariot race, I'll watch the original in Ben Hur. And sadly, PM didn't have much else going for it. Shame on anybody who compares PM to A New Hope. As for Scream, I've never even sat through it. What I've seen, I actually liked pretty much. What I don't like is when something gets so popular so fast, takes on a life of its own and the creative process takes a backseat to crafty marketing strategy. It's a kneejerk reaction, I know. Hell, you know how long it took for me to actually see Pulp Fiction or Braveheart? Years. I just don't trust mass acceptance. I guess I just have to give the hype a while to die down before I give anything a chance.
By the way JasonDog, Deadly Friend WAS great!

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"When I go to confession, I don't offer God small sins - petty squables, jealousies - I offer him sins worth forgiving!"

May the Hammer eternally bleed!
M. Hyde

[Dave]

It is every bit as violent as other so called 'classic' slasher films, every bit as scary, every bit as unnerving (and in my opinion even more so).

I didn't find Scream scary at all, whereas I found classics like Last House on the Left and Nightmare on Elm Street both scary and unnerving. Scream reminds you WAY TOO much that you're watching a horror movie. Not sure on violence and gore, but I'm sure there are numerous Friday the 13th sequels that easily outdo Scream in those categories.

I believe it to be better written

90210+HORROR=SCREAM. Plus, as I said before, all too often the movie is remining you that you're watching a horror movie. Total ruines the atmosphere.

most deffinatly better acted and an over all more excitting presentation then most others.

Acting was fine. Presentation + excitement level sucked (see above reasons).

Without Scream we would never have seen this kind of studio interest in the genre

Studio's "interest" in the genre has given us Teaching Mrs. Tingle, I Know What You Did Last Summer, I Still Know What You Did Last Summer, Scream 2, Scream 3, The Faculty, etc etc.

You're saying it's a good thing we got these movies? ACK!@#!@#

Hey, to each his own. Scream just didn't do anything for me. The main problem is how it contiously reminds you that you're watching a horror movie. How anyone can find that environment to be scarying or exciting is beyond me.

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David W. Anderson - dave@horrordvds.com
Webmaster - www.horrordvds.com

Originally posted by Dave:
Scream The main problem is how it contiously reminds you that you're watching a horror movie. How anyone can find that environment to be scarying or exciting is beyond me.
[/B]

Well I didn't find Last House On The Left scary at all. "How anyone can find that environment to be scarying or exciting is beyond me."

Scream is not about a movie that's trying to scare the poop out of you. It's one of those pop up and startle you movies. And it does a good job of that in Scream 1 and Scream 2. Although the sequels were a little weak Scream is up there in my "elite" list of horror movies.

Since we are on this subject... A lot of people say that A Nightmare On Elm Street is one of the scariest movies ever... Well when I saw the movie it did nothing for me except cheer Freddy killing all the kids. For me it wasn't scary but I loved to see what Freddy would do next and not only do I have the DVD Collection Set but I also watched and taped the episodes on tv. For me it was a great character and they actually killed him off unlike other horror movies... Namely Friday the 13th!

Everybody has a different reason to like a horror movie and even though you said that you also added that "how can anybody blah, blah, blah... Scream" Well I think I just explained why. Not only that but to add to all that, Scream had a great killer/killers. It was more of trying to figure out who the bad guy was while trying to survive. Plus that costume was great.

[joltaddict]

Originally posted by Dave:
Studio's "interest" in the genre has given us Teaching Mrs. Tingle, I Know What You Did Last Summer, I Still Know What You Did Last Summer, Scream 2, Scream 3, The Faculty, etc etc.
You're saying it's a good thing we got these movies? ACK!

Come on Dave! At least they were made. Scream gave decent budgets to the genre. At least throw us that bone. Maybe directors haven't made the best use of it, but Scream gave them the chance.

I personally liked the 1st Scream. I thought it was the best opening to a horror movie in a damn long time. Admit it the first 5 minutes got to you at least, right?

I haven't seen any of the early Craven stuff like LHOTL or THHE etc., but I think his 80s and 90s stuff (most of which I like) shows him as someone who is always trying to push the envelope, as it were - and I assume from the controversy that his 70s stuff was the same way.

So here's my argument: NOES was a different kind of slasher from F13 - it focused on the dream world - while still sticking to the horror formula of the time (teens, sex, blood, revenge). Movies like Lord of Illusions and Shocker continued to put a twist on the familiar, making them different from any number of homage/ripoff films (LOI with the magic/cult angle, Shocker with the villain going through TV). Scream (I like the first one, thought the second was iffy and didn't see the third) changed the formula again - to that self-aware sort of film - whether you like it and the sequels/ripoffs or not.

So I would say the thing that has stayed the same about Craven is that he's always trying to put a new angle on the formula - and that's where his scares come from. Does it work? Well, that depends. Did you like Scream? Yes - then it worked, No - then it didn't.

But unlike some films that are praised here (sometimes by me) despite being "formula" pieces (even good ones), Craven tries to twist the formula with his films. (And it's not his fault that, in this mimicking time, everybody wanted to make a Scream ripoff.)

So has he changed? I don't think so, exactly - the basic approach he brings to horror seems to have stayed the same - get the scares by doing something familiar, yet different. Maybe his ideas have gotten worse, or maybe they haven't - that's a matter of taste.

My five or six cents.