Halloween 2 reaction thread

[dave13]

Originally Posted by Demoni

"Cold Prey 2" is the real sequel to the remake of "Halloween".

thread cross-contamination!

[Anthropophagus]

Originally Posted by dave13

i recalled loathing this one when i saw it in theaters, but i thought that time, diminished expectations, and the benefit of a reportedly improved directors cut would elevate my opinion. I just watched it tonight for the first time since the theater. my first instinct is to type "garbage" and just leave it at that, but thats not quite fair. there were certain scenes that were very effective. for instance the scene where brad dourif discovers annie's body, the music and the slow motion shots of laurie running in the woods works extremely well, and honestly we go from not caring about anybody in the entire film to finally giving a shit about annie and sherif brackett - although she's dead now, and his character is pretty much done as far as the film's concerned. i don't know if i can blame taylor scout compton for laurie being such an awful character. the writing is just atrocious, and i don't see how any actress could have made that character even the least bit sympathetic. as far as loomis goes, i think if zombie wanted to go this direction with his character, he should have gone further. for a character that has undergone such a dramatic shift between films, he's really given an incredibly small amount to do. i think it would have been interesting to watch him slowly realize what he's turned into, if only he'd actually been able to get the screen time to do it. There were some great compositions on screen, and some great shots of michael. even though him without his mask gets a pretty "meh" reaction from me, at least zombie makes him look interesting on screen. i'm a little sick of zombie projecting his obvious love of long dirty hair onto every man in the film, though. i mean, i don't think it would be possible to make michael look more like rob zombie than he does in this film. and the black and white dream sequences look like a white zombie music video that you used to think was super cool in the early 90's, but now just looks lame.

i don't really know what some people are seeing in this movie. its still boring. makes the first one look good.

Agree with everything you said.
I saw it in theaters and sat across from a guy chugging Jack Daniels from a bottle wrapped in a paper bag, within thirty minutes he was out cold and I envied him for not having to suffer through this crap. If not for my friend who's a huge fan of anything horror, I would have left for sure.

[Demoni]

Originally Posted by dave13

:d thread cross-contamination!

:d

[Everxon]

wicked movie! i got goosebumps all over my body!

[MarkWarner]

My second favorite Halloween film. Zombie finally decided to ditch most of the baggage that accompanied the original series and do the movie HE wanted to do. I'm definitely in the minority on this, but I thought this was a big step up from the remake and an even bigger step up from most of the original series sequels. I also dug the fact that Zombie wasn't afraid to leave the Halloween theme out of the film until the credits (in the director's cut anyway). If I had to hear the theme used as much as it was in all the other films, I doubt the film would have been as effective as it was for me. Its a great, classic theme, but inappropriate for Zombie's H2.

And for all the talk of Zombie demystifying Michael, I thought he did the opposite. He's not a phantom anymore, of course, but he's a LEGEND now. He's Michael Myers. He's the Grim Reaper (the night scenes where Michael has his hood on are definitely meant to echo that). I think Zombie's approach to Michael is not for everyone, but for me it was a welcome change to the (now cliche) boogeyman idea. It worked (and still works) in Carpenter's film, but we're over thirty years past that now. Hanging onto it like some kind of security blanket just isn't going to cut it with these films now.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts on it. I love the film, but I know its not for everyone.

[shape22]

I don't begrudge anyone for being more open-minded about the way Zombie treated this franchise. But I'm really happy that H2 wasn't well received by the general public. The box office returns for Zombie's H2 are virtually the same as the returns for Resurrection. And H2 came on the heels of a much more commercially successful entry than H6. So despite a lot of momentum, H2 marked a serious downturn in the popularity of the series.

When you take on iconic characters like Myers, Loomis, and Laurie Strode, you inherit many preconceived notions and a fearsomely protective fan base--like it or not. So if your desire is to completely subvert all of those expectations and drastically alter every character and aspect of the franchise universe, why not just pass on the reboot/sequel opportunities and make your own original films?

Yes, I think the Zombie Halloween films are terrible abominations. But that's not the real reason that I utterly despise them. I hate the fact that Zombie exploited a loyal fan base for his own financial gain despite an obvious absence of love and respect for the extremely popular source material. He simply repackaged his own completely incongruous ideas and slapped the Halloween brand name on them. If that's not a shameless money grab, what is?

Eon could decide to change James Bond into a break-dancing Samoan midget who leaves MI6 to become a rogue hitman. But it probably wouldn't please the majority of the fans who've supported the franchise since 1962. Fortunately when Eon decided to reboot the Bond series with Casino Royale they did it with restraint and respect. Bond was a more grounded character. But he wasn't completely unrecognizable to long-time fans of the series. I wish Malek Akkad had demanded that approach.

The Halloween graphic novels all present more faithful and compelling stories lines than what Zombie offered in either of his Halloween films. Those books are also better than the bulk of the original sequels. So there's plenty of mileage left in the classic Halloween universe. Hopefully the series will get back on track with the next installment. I miss the old Michael.

[deepred]

Yes, I think the Zombie Halloween films are terrible abominations. But that's not the real reason that I utterly despise them. I hate the fact that Zombie exploited a loyal fan base for his own financial gain despite an obvious absence of love and respect for the extremely popular source material. He simply repackaged his own completely incongruous ideas and slapped the Halloween brand name on them. If that's not a shameless money grab, what is?

I am not a big fan of Zombie's Halloween movies either, particularly, the 1st but I wouldn't call what Zombie did a shameless money grab. Most everyone knows Rob Zombie is a huge fan of these classic horror movies and his version of Halloween is similar to his own films - so how is he doing it shamelessly for money?? I think the money grab comment should be pointed at Samuel Bayer after he repeatedly talked trash about the elm street films and then put out something so lazily put together with no heart in it at all. While fans might not agree with Zombie's vision - at least he is true to his own artistic instincts. I think that's something we need to see more of.

I personally did like where Zombie took the Laurie Strode character as it would be psychologically devastating to lose and learn so much in a night. This was never really explored in the original series because I/II were the same night and Laurie did not return to the series for 20 years and then she was pretty messed up psychologically - no? I think Halloween II would have been more successful if the studio didn't rush Zombie to get this out asap. I did enjoy his remake of the second one more than 5-8 and maybe 4 too.

[shape22]

Originally Posted by deepred

and his version of Halloween is similar to his own films - so how is he doing it shamelessly for money??

Zombie made absolutely no effort to curb his typical excesses to better fit the established Halloween universe. Instead of Anytown USA we're immediately thrust into Zombie's white trash Neverland--that magical place where the 70s never end, every male under 50 years old looks like a filthy, long-haired homeless person, and every woman under 50 considers it a badge of honor to use the word "fuck" as a meaningless participle at least twice in every sentence.

Since Zombie is obviously more interested in white trash opera than ANY aspect of the original series, I think it's fair to ask why he didn't just create his own slasher franchise inspired (like so many others) by Halloween.

But his reasons are pretty obvious. He wanted the extra attention and money that comes from making a film in an established series--even though his contempt for the source material is obvious in both the finished film and the many interviews he gave to promote the project. That's a big-time money grab in my book.

[Zombie Dude]

Personally H2 is guilty pleasure of mine. I think to expect anything but white trash characters from Zombie is a bit ridiculous and not worth bitching about. Zombie was put on these films for his distinct tastes and filming styles. The Weinsteins wanted something different from this franchise. If you recall before Zombie came on for the remake the Weinsteins were just going to reboot a name only franchise.

I just like that Zombie gave us something different. His films could have been better yes, but I found it somewhat refreshing that we got something new. Fuck Zombie made Michael Myers more violent and bad-ass than remake Jason Voorhees. I would love to see his take on Jason.

[joltaddict]

I would suggest anyone complaining that Zombie ruined "the established universe" of Halloween go watch Resurection again but I wouldnt wish that on my worst enemy. It may not have been the direction you wanted it to go but it didnt ruin shit. Shit was already ruined.

[JGrendel]

I think H2 would've gone over better had it not had the Halloween banner on it. If Zombie had just made the film his own without the baggage like was said. Not only that the one thing that really disturbed my watching of his Halloween movies was I kept asking the question how did a stripper afford such a nice house in the subburbs with 3 kids?

[othervoice1]

I kept asking the question how did a stripper afford such a nice house in the subburbs with 3 kids?

Well strippers can make some pretty nice cash - especially ones that look like Sheri Moon

[JGrendel]

True but it was a two story house right smack in the middle of middle america I'm sure the bank would've of had some issues when she marked down dancer on her loan application.

[MarkWarner]

Originally Posted by shape22

I don't begrudge anyone for being more open-minded about the way Zombie treated this franchise. But I'm really happy that H2 wasn't well received by the general public. The box office returns for Zombie's H2 are virtually the same as the returns for Resurrection. And H2 came on the heels of a much more commercially successful entry than H6. So despite a lot of momentum, H2 marked a serious downturn in the popularity of the series.

Box office returns are not a sign of the quality of a film. Michael Bay's Trashformers movies made more money than I'll probably ever have in my life, but that doesn't make those films any better.

When you take on iconic characters like Myers, Loomis, and Laurie Strode, you inherit many preconceived notions and a fearsomely protective fan base--like it or not.

That would be "not" in my case. The fan base to most franchises always act like spoiled kids who don't get their way, and I'm not just talking about when a divisive or downright hated film comes out. I'm talking about when ANY film comes out (after the original usually).

So if your desire is to completely subvert all of those expectations and drastically alter every character and aspect of the franchise universe, why not just pass on the reboot/sequel opportunities and make your own original films?

Why not make your own original Halloween films? He took the characters and did something different with them (as any reboot director should do, lest we get another Psycho/Funny Games scenario). Blaming Zombie for not delivering what is expected isn't his fault, its the fault of anyone who believes that a director should cater to them rather than follow their own artistic vision. Zombie has shown time and again that he's not just a director-for-hire. He does his own thing. Whether you like it or not is entirely up to you, but I wouldn't blame him for something that he was never going to do in the first place.

Yes, I think the Zombie Halloween films are terrible abominations.

In a world where Ed Wood was allowed to make films, I can't agree with this.

But that's not the real reason that I utterly despise them. I hate the fact that Zombie exploited a loyal fan base for his own financial gain despite an obvious absence of love and respect for the extremely popular source material. He simply repackaged his own completely incongruous ideas and slapped the Halloween brand name on them. If that's not a shameless money grab, what is?

You didn't like his film, so that makes him, essentially, a whore? I completely disagree with that. Zombie obviously has a lot of passion for the original film, but just because he changed things up and didn't slavishly adhere to what the whining fans wanted doesn't mean he only did it for the money, especially with H2, which to me is a lot more artistic and thought out than most of the other films in the franchise.

And again, he took the general Halloween idea and put his own spin on it, which I think is more admirable than Dimension hiring a generic director who will just slap ripoff after ripoff of scenes from the original into their film and then have the balls to call it a "new movie".

Oh, and a lot of people still see John Carpenter as a "master of horror", but that guy has PROVEN that he's all about the paycheck. And yet, not a lot of people give him shit about that. Why can't we hold him accountable for lining his wallet too when he makes shit like The Ward and Ghosts Of Mars?

Eon could decide to change James Bond into a break-dancing Samoan midget who leaves MI6 to become a rogue hitman. But it probably wouldn't please the majority of the fans who've supported the franchise since 1962. Fortunately when Eon decided to reboot the Bond series with Casino Royale they did it with restraint and respect. Bond was a more grounded character. But he wasn't completely unrecognizable to long-time fans of the series. I wish Malek Akkad had demanded that approach.

See, I don't think Zombie changed the characters that drastically. If Michael was suddenly a juggling clown who killed people with pies and said one-liners, I would be inclined to agree that the changes were too dramatic, but that didn't happen. In the remake they're essentially the same characters, and in H2 they've changed for a reason: people dying affects you, and the fact that Zombie showed this rather than just throwing some new teens into the film to die (ala Resurrection) was pretty refreshing and to me showed that he's put a lot more thought into these films than people give him credit for.

The Halloween graphic novels all present more faithful and compelling stories lines than what Zombie offered in either of his Halloween films. Those books are also better than the bulk of the original sequels. So there's plenty of mileage left in the classic Halloween universe. Hopefully the series will get back on track with the next installment. I miss the old Michael.

I'm a huge fan of the comics AND of Zombie's films. I don't see any reason they can't co-exist as different stories. Locking Halloween down to a specific way of telling the story is, frankly, boring to me (hence my disdain for the later films in the original series). Such a simple tale can be told so many ways, and to limit it by trying to keep it "classic" just cheapens it in my opinion. The more original stories to be told, the better.

[Zombie Keeper]

The original sequel lacked substance. The remake of the sequel had too much substance. Zombie went too deep into Myer's head and ruined the film.