DVDC's Laserdiscs - Page 2

Paff · 03-23-2012, 07:50 PM

Wow. You're getting performance that acceptable from a 406? I used to have that model, and it's a damn solid player, but when I got the 704 there was a marked improvement in quality (back when I had a 4x3 TV and LD was my primary source of viewing)

I have a 42" 720p plasma (my next TV will obviously be larger, and 1080p, so I imagine the LD performance will only get worse) that I sit about 12' away from. My plasma does accept the composite input, but I thought an external scaler would help the performance. After all, I do film festival work, and when we have to get a 4x3SD image onto the big screen, we use a Gefen scaler and it does pretty well.

But I'm still on the fence with the scaler I'm using. When I run the "bouncing ball" pattern from Video Essentials, the scaler does a better job with the fine black-and-white grid patterns. Going straight into the TV with composite, those patterns will create that rainbow-like moire effect. I don't get the effect with the scaler.

But when I compare an actual picture, I don't see much of an improvement. It's possible the scaler is doing TOO good of a job, and emphasizing the low resolution of laserdisc. The straight composite input kind of softens and blurs everything, so it looks less "blocky"

I got some time this weekend, I'll try some more adjustments.

jscott · 03-23-2012, 10:37 PM

Would anyone know if running the composite LD output into a standalone DVD Recorder would improve the image? Once I get my new TV next week, I'll be running my recorder using component video out. Seems like a remember something being said about if a TV or other device had a 3D comb filter, it would improve LD image. Ringing any bells? Bueller?

sinister · 03-23-2012, 11:42 PM

Oh, those pics are bringing back some great memories of horror on LD.

I had a big LD collection but sold nearly all of it a few years after going to DVD. I still have a few of the rarer horror LD's like the Jap Dawn of the Dead "Perfect Collection" in the silver box and some other Jap single discs, I'll post some pics when I get a chance over the weekend.

Also had "the best LD player ever made", the Jap only model Pioneer HLD-X9, now that really did make LD's look as good as (non-anamorphic) DVD. I paid about £1500 for the player and they were so rare in Europe that I actually got more or less what I paid for it back when I sold it years later.

Mitbox · 03-24-2012, 12:12 AM

Holy cow, the art of those LDs look awesome, I love the Hellraiser one. I went from VHS to DVD so never even knew much about Laser Discs except that they were very expensive. Just for the art alone they seem worthy of keeping on display forever.

Paff · 03-24-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscott

Would anyone know if running the composite LD output into a standalone DVD Recorder would improve the image? Once I get my new TV next week, I'll be running my recorder using component video out. Seems like a remember something being said about if a TV or other device had a 3D comb filter, it would improve LD image. Ringing any bells? Bueller?

Hard to say what it would do, but give it a try anyway.

A comb filter takes a native composite signal (LD, VHS), and breaks it down into two components, Y and C (chroma and luma). "Component" connection is the same thing, broken down further. I think it's the chroma component that gets futher divided.

The school of thought USED to be to run the composite output of the laserdisc player into the TV, not the S-Video (which has been comb filtered into Y/C), because it was likely your newer TV had a better comb filter than your laserdisc player. However, that's out the window now that HDTVs are expecting a higher level input than composite. So why waste technology on good comb filtering anymore, since Blu-Ray, SD DVD, Gaming, and Satellite input don't need it?

Your theory of plugging into the DVD recorder means you'll be using a comb filter in the recorder. Hard to tell if it's any good. If the recorder is designed and intended to accept older analog inputs (like it's designed for preserving your old VHS tapes), it might have a good filter in it.

I would try every possible combination you can come up with, but I still haven't found a really acceptable solution to getting decent LD performance on an HDTV. It might just be the proverbial square peg into a round hole.

While I kind of regret still holding on to and continuing to buy LDs well after the death of the format, the good part is that most of the Blu-Rays I'm buying are upgrades from LD, not DVD. In other words, I'm double dipping LD to Blu Ray, not triple dipping LD to DVD to Blu Ray.

And hey, as crappy as they look, I can still see the theatrical versions of the original Star Wars trilogy...

Dobby · 03-24-2012, 01:53 AM

I pretty much threw the towel in when it comes to LD's. They all pretty much look like crap and strain my eyes. I have a few I hold onto for nostalgia reasons only. Beyond that I just don't bother with this format. Interesting reading the comments on here and seeing I am not alone.

startide · 03-24-2012, 03:33 AM

How many units do you guys have set up exactly? Given my Sony VCR needs a service I've got two units I haven't even hooked up to my new TV, and if that one were in play I'd have three. My current set up looks chunky enough (Blu, VCR/DVDR, MR DVD, PVR/STB) without the thought of adding laserdisc to it! FWIW though, laser never did take off here in Australia. Everything was imported and the prices were outrageous, no wonder!

I remember researching TVs when my mum hooked up with another deadbeat (mid 90s) and widescreen TVs being available at the time. They were not compatible with widescreen tapes - Star Wars looked horrendous! For the life of me, I cannot even fathom why they were available in the first place. HDTV didn't even exist, DVD wasn't even around yet and like I said, the take up of laserdisc was virtually zero. Curious.

Ah the memories.

ekent · 03-24-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paff

school of thought USED to be to run the composite output of the laserdisc player into the TV, not the S-Video (which has been comb filtered into Y/C), because it was likely your newer TV had a better comb filter than your laserdisc player. However, that's out the window now that HDTVs are expecting a higher level input than composite. So why waste technology on good comb filtering anymore, since Blu-Ray, SD DVD, Gaming, and Satellite input don't need it?

Your theory of plugging into the DVD recorder means you'll be using a comb filter in the recorder. Hard to tell if it's any good. If the recorder is designed and intended to accept older analog inputs (like it's designed for preserving your old VHS tapes), it might have a good filter in it.

Interesting. I was still operating under that school of thought. With this in mind I will try running the video through my receiver. The DVD recorder method seems like a decent option as well, at minimum for comparison.

sinister · 04-04-2012, 01:11 PM

A few pics of some of the horror LD's I kept when I got rid of the player and most of the collection.

Cannibal Holocaust with poster :

Stage Fright :

The Church :

Deep Red (Jap version was called "Suspiria 2" for some reason!) :

Evil Dead (This was my 2nd copy, the 1st one having been seized and destroyed by UK customs!) :

Dawn of the Dead Perfect Collection :

Last House on the Left :

Dario Argento's World of horror :

Paff · 04-04-2012, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinister

A few pics of some of the horror LD's I kept when I got rid of the player and most of the collection.

Cannibal Holocaust with poster :

Evil Dead (This was my 2nd copy, the 1st one having been seized and destroyed by UK customs!) :

Dario Argento's World of horror :

I have that disc of Cannibal Holocaust, but I don't recall there being a poster inside. I will have to re-check. I do have the Cat in the Brain disc with the poster, and the Cannibal Ferox with the barf-bag though. Those are nice LD bonuses.

I also have the Japanese Evil Dead shown above. I will have to pop it in the player and see how it looks on the plasma. I remember it looking gorgeous on my old 4x3 analog TV

My copy of World of Horror is the Synapse release. Gold disc, maybe? I also have the Japanese doc, Dario Argento: Master of Horror. I think that was ported as an extra on some DVD by now though, right?

DVD Connoisseur · 04-04-2012, 07:16 PM

I have the Argento: Master of Horror DVD from Synapse (can't remember what set it's with now, wasn't Eye For Horror added to a recent release?).

Beautiful collection, sinister! This is the first time I've seen the majority of these releases!

Sam · 04-04-2012, 08:17 PM

Nice collection, DVDC. I still have several hundred LDs myself and really used to go all-out buying them from around 1996 to 2004 or so. I pretty much stopped buying them when blu ray came out and haven't picked up any since around '07. Like a few others mentioned, they really take some work to look decent on modern 1080p displays. They actually don't look too bad on my 480p Infocus projector w/ faroudja scaler from about eight years ago, but they aren't looking so hot on my 2011 Panasonic Viera plasma. Blu Rays are almost certainly more enjoyable to watch and the LDs are more fun to stare at on the shelf. The 16-bit PCM audio on laserdisc does, however, occasionally give the blus a good run for their money. It goes without saying that LD was way ahead its time and paved the way for things we take for granted today (widescreen, lossless audio, commentary tracks, etc).

DVD Connoisseur · 04-04-2012, 09:22 PM

Absolutely, Sam! We were the pioneers...the early adaptors!

It's funny but I never think a format will become extinct. When I was taping programmes and films on VHS, I thought I'd be using them forever!

Must admit, I think my last LD was Tomorrow Never Dies. After that, I'd purchased a DVD player and when the PS3 was around a year old, I started on blu.

Funnily enough, the vast majority of my purchases are still on DVD as many titles still haven't emerged on the blu-ray format. I just love my independent movies!

startide · 04-05-2012, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinister

A few pics of some of the horror LD's I kept when I got rid of the player and most of the collection.

Last House on the Left

Nice pics. DVD special editions aren't nearly as pretty!

BTW, what is the quality like on that Last House LD? I have that very edition on VHS (was one of my first ebay purchases back in the day when it was still banned) and the movie starts sometime after the opening credits!!! Um yeah, thanks. That's something you might have mentioned in the ebay description! I've got bootlegs that are better quality than that!!

FWIW, I found some nice DVD SE porn here:
http://nighthecamehome.blogspot.com

Paff · 04-08-2012, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

They actually don't look too bad on my 480p Infocus projector w/ faroudja scaler from about eight years ago,

What Faroudja scaler are you using?

03-23-2012, 07:50 PM	#16
Paff Moderator Join Date: May 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,538	Wow. You're getting performance that acceptable from a 406? I used to have that model, and it's a damn solid player, but when I got the 704 there was a marked improvement in quality (back when I had a 4x3 TV and LD was my primary source of viewing) I have a 42" 720p plasma (my next TV will obviously be larger, and 1080p, so I imagine the LD performance will only get worse) that I sit about 12' away from. My plasma does accept the composite input, but I thought an external scaler would help the performance. After all, I do film festival work, and when we have to get a 4x3SD image onto the big screen, we use a Gefen scaler and it does pretty well. But I'm still on the fence with the scaler I'm using. When I run the "bouncing ball" pattern from Video Essentials, the scaler does a better job with the fine black-and-white grid patterns. Going straight into the TV with composite, those patterns will create that rainbow-like moire effect. I don't get the effect with the scaler. But when I compare an actual picture, I don't see much of an improvement. It's possible the scaler is doing TOO good of a job, and emphasizing the low resolution of laserdisc. The straight composite input kind of softens and blurs everything, so it looks less "blocky" I got some time this weekend, I'll try some more adjustments. __________________ CINEMA PAFF - Your BB-Movie Showcase * * - The extra B is for BYOBB Paff's Laserdiscs

03-23-2012, 10:37 PM	#17
jscott Guided By Voices Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 787	Would anyone know if running the composite LD output into a standalone DVD Recorder would improve the image? Once I get my new TV next week, I'll be running my recorder using component video out. Seems like a remember something being said about if a TV or other device had a 3D comb filter, it would improve LD image. Ringing any bells? Bueller? __________________ http://www.profondocinema.com

04-04-2012, 01:11 PM	#24
sinister Stalker Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 211	A few pics of some of the horror LD's I kept when I got rid of the player and most of the collection. Cannibal Holocaust with poster : Stage Fright : The Church : Deep Red (Jap version was called "Suspiria 2" for some reason!) : Evil Dead (This was my 2nd copy, the 1st one having been seized and destroyed by UK customs!) : Dawn of the Dead Perfect Collection : Last House on the Left : Dario Argento's World of horror : Last edited by sinister; 08-20-2012 at 08:41 PM.

04-04-2012, 08:17 PM	#27
Sam Maniac Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Alabama Posts: 809	Nice collection, DVDC. I still have several hundred LDs myself and really used to go all-out buying them from around 1996 to 2004 or so. I pretty much stopped buying them when blu ray came out and haven't picked up any since around '07. Like a few others mentioned, they really take some work to look decent on modern 1080p displays. They actually don't look too bad on my 480p Infocus projector w/ faroudja scaler from about eight years ago, but they aren't looking so hot on my 2011 Panasonic Viera plasma. Blu Rays are almost certainly more enjoyable to watch and the LDs are more fun to stare at on the shelf. The 16-bit PCM audio on laserdisc does, however, occasionally give the blus a good run for their money. It goes without saying that LD was way ahead its time and paved the way for things we take for granted today (widescreen, lossless audio, commentary tracks, etc). Last edited by Sam; 04-04-2012 at 08:25 PM.

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03-23-2012, 11:42 PM	#18
sinister Stalker Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 211	Oh, those pics are bringing back some great memories of horror on LD. I had a big LD collection but sold nearly all of it a few years after going to DVD. I still have a few of the rarer horror LD's like the Jap Dawn of the Dead "Perfect Collection" in the silver box and some other Jap single discs, I'll post some pics when I get a chance over the weekend. Also had "the best LD player ever made", the Jap only model Pioneer HLD-X9, now that really did make LD's look as good as (non-anamorphic) DVD. I paid about £1500 for the player and they were so rare in Europe that I actually got more or less what I paid for it back when I sold it years later.

03-24-2012, 12:12 AM	#19
Mitbox Stalker Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chile Posts: 289	Holy cow, the art of those LDs look awesome, I love the Hellraiser one. I went from VHS to DVD so never even knew much about Laser Discs except that they were very expensive. Just for the art alone they seem worthy of keeping on display forever.

03-24-2012, 01:53 AM	#21
Dobby i get alot of headaches Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft Posts: 1,899	I pretty much threw the towel in when it comes to LD's. They all pretty much look like crap and strain my eyes. I have a few I hold onto for nostalgia reasons only. Beyond that I just don't bother with this format. Interesting reading the comments on here and seeing I am not alone.

03-24-2012, 03:33 AM	#22
startide Stalker Join Date: May 2011 Location: Hamilton High Posts: 319	How many units do you guys have set up exactly? Given my Sony VCR needs a service I've got two units I haven't even hooked up to my new TV, and if that one were in play I'd have three. My current set up looks chunky enough (Blu, VCR/DVDR, MR DVD, PVR/STB) without the thought of adding laserdisc to it! FWIW though, laser never did take off here in Australia. Everything was imported and the prices were outrageous, no wonder! I remember researching TVs when my mum hooked up with another deadbeat (mid 90s) and widescreen TVs being available at the time. They were not compatible with widescreen tapes - Star Wars looked horrendous! For the life of me, I cannot even fathom why they were available in the first place. HDTV didn't even exist, DVD wasn't even around yet and like I said, the take up of laserdisc was virtually zero. Curious. Ah the memories.

04-04-2012, 07:16 PM	#26
DVD Connoisseur Moderator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The UK - Home of Censorship Posts: 2,309	I have the Argento: Master of Horror DVD from Synapse (can't remember what set it's with now, wasn't Eye For Horror added to a recent release?). Beautiful collection, sinister! This is the first time I've seen the majority of these releases!

04-04-2012, 09:22 PM	#28
DVD Connoisseur Moderator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The UK - Home of Censorship Posts: 2,309	Absolutely, Sam! We were the pioneers...the early adaptors! It's funny but I never think a format will become extinct. When I was taping programmes and films on VHS, I thought I'd be using them forever! Must admit, I think my last LD was Tomorrow Never Dies. After that, I'd purchased a DVD player and when the PS3 was around a year old, I started on blu. Funnily enough, the vast majority of my purchases are still on DVD as many titles still haven't emerged on the blu-ray format. I just love my independent movies!