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Old 06-18-2014, 09:50 PM   #1
Werewolf Vixen
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Muffin in Friday the 13th part 2(spoilers)

I watched Friday the 13th part 2 last Friday the 13th, and I'm pretty sure Muffin was killed in the film. The animal/dog the two characters find while venturing near Camp Crystal Lake certainly looked a lot like Muffin in the brief up close shot of the animal. It even had the little bow in its hair Muffin had if I remember correctly. So the chances of it being a random other dog is highly unlikely given the area and all.

There has also always been speculation about it in regards to the ending of the film. But the ending is confusing in many ways, though it certainly is more logical to be a 'dream sequence' than reality. Since if the final scene was reality. Then how did Ginny live if Jason was attacking her? And naturally Paul vanished, and is most likely dead.

So what does everyone else think of the fate of Muffin and the ending? Dead or alive? Dream or reality?

I do think it's pretty disturbing for Jason to kill a sweet little dog, and was another way of showing how murderous he was, and create a sense of dread before the other characters are slaughtered. So part 2 is actually pretty well made and has some nice atmosphere and build up, more so than I gave it credit for in the past(I usually preferred the original over it, but still liked some things in part 2, and now I like part 2 even more than in the past).

I'd love to make a slasher film one day, that has a likable cast, and is full of suspense and dread. So I've been on a kick revisiting classic slashers I hadn't seen in awhile for inspiration. It's fun seeing how they're made/edited and also noticing things I didn't before. Such as how I'm sure much of Ginny's chase near the end was day for night filming, and very professionally done compared to The Burning' day for night scenes(I still love that film as well).
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:24 AM   #2
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Based on the intro to Part III you'd have to assume the final scene in Part II was a dream sequence - the same with the ending to Part I. I always thought Muffin died after walking up to Jason's feet, and Paul helped Ginny back to the camp after she chopped Jason with the machete and pulled off his hood. She passed out back at the camp and had her dream of Jason pulling her through the window. Her visuals were so vivid after having just seen his face. When Ginny wakes up on the gurney, I just always assumed Paul was off screen somewhere. Having him off screen just helps the filmmakers effort to confuse the viewer. Good stuff.
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:58 AM   #3
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That is true about Paul, possibly being off screen somewhere. Since it wouldn't make sense if he somehow was killed, and Ginny survived. Of course if the original Mrs Voorhees eyes opening/winking at the camera ending were included. It'd muddy the waters even more, since it was meant to be a hint that Paul was indeed dead from what I recall.

Messy screenwriting or intentional ambiguity. Either way, it does leave one wondering, and I guess that is a good thing to not have everything spelled out for you.
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Old 06-19-2014, 05:10 AM   #4
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Of course if the original Mrs Voorhees eyes opening/winking at the camera ending were included. It'd muddy the waters even more, since it was meant to be a hint that Paul was indeed dead from what I recall.
I don't understand how that indicates Paul is dead. I'm glad they didn't do that eye opening on Mrs. Voorhees thing - very stupid. Like Freddy winking at the end of Freddy vs. Jason - dumb.
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:45 PM   #5
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Muffin is alive and well. She's still there . . . still there . . . still there . . .
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:38 PM   #6
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I thought it was confirmed that Paul was dead in F13 Part III? Didn't they say she was the only survivor, or mentioned how many people were killed (and the # indicated that Paul was among the dead)?
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Old 06-19-2014, 05:17 PM   #7
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Wait. Mrs Voorhees's head was supposed to wink???

I just scanned through the film and didn't notice the ribbon in the hair of the dead dog they find in the forest. I think the point of that scene is to make you think it's Muffin so that you really aren't expecting her to show up at the end. I never took that part to be a dream either.

I think it's pretty obvious what happens to Paul though. After Jason smashes through the window and pulls Ginny outside, Paul goes over to the the couch and starts to play electronic hockey. Jason tries to make love to unconscious Ginny but Muffin bites his dick and Jason screams so loud that the machete stuck in his shoulder flies out and goes into Paul, killing him. Then there's a close up of the electronic hockey game saying, "Game over!" Muffin then dies of food poisoning from eating rotten meat.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:09 PM   #8
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Muffin looks dead to me.








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Old 06-20-2014, 06:26 PM   #9
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So I was wrong about the ribbon, since the glimpse of the dead dog was so quick. But as you can see in the pics posted. It does look like Muffin, since she was the only small dog in the film, and it's unlikely another one was roaming about.

I love animals to, and own a small dog that's just adorable(she can be seen in my short film). So yeah, it's unpleasant having a cute innocent dog be mistreated even if only in a fictional film. But I'm not going to kid myself and act as if Muffin is still alive like most people do. The entire ending sequence just doesn't make any sense if it's not a dream sequence. But then, it could just be lazy writing as well.

It also proves Kane Hodder doesn't know what he's talking about. Since I've read where he claimed "Jason doesn't hurt dogs!" or something and was against a scene of Jason kicking a dog in part 8. So it wasn't filmed. As if he knows how 'compassionate' a crazed soulless evil murderer could be.

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Old 06-20-2014, 06:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Werewolf Vixen View Post

It also proves Kane Hodder doesn't know what he's talking about. Since I've read where he claimed "Jason doesn't hurt dogs!" or something and was against a scene of Jason kicking a dog in part 8. So it wasn't filmed. As if he knows how 'compassionate' a crazed soulless evil murderer could be.
Maybe he was just talking about the Jason during his reign as the character. Or his personal feeling towards animals.
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:38 PM   #11
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Maybe he was just talking about the Jason during his reign as the character. Or his personal feeling towards animals.
I'm sure he was on both accounts. But if the character is supposed to do something, and the character is evil. The actor shouldn't claim the character wouldn't or 'does not' do such things. It's all acting anyway, so a dog wouldn't really be kicked and hurt in such a scene. It'd be an illusion that it happens with a well trained dog and proper camera angle and editing.
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:42 PM   #12
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I'm sure he was on both accounts. But if the character is supposed to do something, and the character is evil. The actor shouldn't claim the character wouldn't or 'does not' do such things. It's all acting anyway, so a dog wouldn't really be kicked and hurt in such a scene. It'd be an illusion that it happens with a well trained dog and proper camera angle and editing.
One of the more famous "dog" killing scenes is the one in Halloween. They did that quite well. Nothing bloody, just the dog sliding down, etc...


But going back to Muffin, this reminds me of another small dog that met his off screen demise. Or so we assume. It was Tiger from the movie The Boogens. We just see the fur later on in the movie. On a side note, Tiger is probably one of the best trained dogs in a horror movie that I've seen.

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Old 06-20-2014, 06:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mutilated Prey View Post
Based on the intro to Part III you'd have to assume the final scene in Part II was a dream sequence - the same with the ending to Part I. I always thought Muffin died after walking up to Jason's feet, and Paul helped Ginny back to the camp after she chopped Jason with the machete and pulled off his hood. She passed out back at the camp and had her dream of Jason pulling her through the window. Her visuals were so vivid after having just seen his face. When Ginny wakes up on the gurney, I just always assumed Paul was off screen somewhere. Having him off screen just helps the filmmakers effort to confuse the viewer. Good stuff.
Having watched the two back to back last Friday, I'd say that nothing within Part 2 suggest that Jason's final attack on Ginny and Paul is a dream sequence. Shouldn't we at least see Ginny falling asleep in the cabin before one can even start to bring up the dream sequence theory? The reason that the flashback in Part 3 ends with Jason getting up in his cabin I think is strictly for brevity and to avoid showing Jason's Part 2 makeup again, which looks nothing like it does in Part 3. Sequel continuity was never a strong point with the series, like AT ALL.

Unless someone can come up with a convincing argument that Jason crashing through window while Muffin distracts Ginny and Paul, I'd say that Muffin survived. But either way, why do people automatically assume that Jason killed that mangled dog that may or may not be Muffin?

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Old 06-20-2014, 07:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baggio View Post
One of the more famous "dog" killing scenes is the one in Halloween. They did that quite well. Nothing bloody, just the dog sliding down, etc...
Same type of scene happens in Humongous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim Bruun View Post
Having watched the two back to back last Friday, I'd say that nothing within Part 2 suggest that Jason's final attack on Ginny and Paul is a dream sequence. Shouldn't we at least see Ginny falling asleep in the cabin before one can even start to bring up the dream sequence theory? The reason that the flashback in Part 3 ends with Jason getting up in his cabin I think is strictly for brevity and to avoid showing Jason's Part 2 makeup again, which looks nothing like it does in Part 3. Sequel continuity was never a strong point with the series, like AT ALL.

Unless someone can come up with a convincing argument that Jason crashing through window while Muffin distracts Ginny and Paul, I'd say that Muffin survived. But either way, why do people automatically assume that Jason killed that mangled dog that may or may not be Muffin?
So you think Jason just banged Ginny like he does Chris in Part III
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:15 PM   #15
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So you think Jason just banged Ginny like he does Chris in Part III
I have no idea. I do think it is implied that Jason MIGHT have raped Chris in Part 3, but the movie doesn't say it outright.

Which brings us to one of the bigger continuity lapses of the series. Chris' first encounter with Jason happens years before Ginny's only encounter with him. So how come Chris meets bald Jason => Ginny meets Jason with long, thinning hair => Chris meets bald Jason again? The answer is obviously that series continuity wasn't a big deal for the studio and the writers. Friday the 13th as a series is what it is, immensely enjoyable, occasionally well-made, but not really some that bears deep analysis as an extended epic too well.
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