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Old 07-09-2013, 09:39 AM   #76
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Ghoulies was good. Much better than the terrible Part II and III... couldn't make it to IV. Bleh...

And The Descent is a great film! Blair Witch not so much...
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:18 AM   #77
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Ghoulies was good. Much better than the terrible Part II and III... couldn't make it to IV. Bleh...
I thought the IVth film was easily the best. Yes, the detective one. Yes, the one with the woman in the black leather catsuit. Yes, the one with the cardboard box fight in a warehouse. Yes, the one with the "hip" "black" "Ghoulie." It was a troubled franchise from the getgo, took awhile for Empire to master their eventual Troll formula (I haven't rewatched the Puppet Master series in a long time but I doubt anyone would call those films great, apart from the 3rd- which even Leonard Maltin said was pretty good).

I don't think the original is very good. I have to admit I've had about 3 different reactions to the movie the 3 times I sat the whole way through it. The first was disappointment, when I saw it on Joe Bob Briggs' MonsterVision. I was about 15 and was expecting it to be about the monsters and instead... it was about a dueling wizard father and son. The second watch I actually liked it and thought it was okay. The third... I wanted to throw something at the television screen. I don't know what happened in the year or two between Viewing #2 and #3 but I'm always inclined to stick with what I thought the last time I see a movie and it was just horrible. I hope we can all agree the film visually looks like crap and the music is not active, memorable, or impressive enough to make up for it. The characters are not interesting or fun. The dialogue is lousy. The story is boring. The effects are hit or miss, mostly miss since the puppets are just terrible. It's not funny, not scary, not smart, and it's only semi-creative.

The 2nd film is easily superior. Why? Better effects. Better music. Better actors. A story with some actual ideas for once (though this is confined to Phil Fondacaro's Fright Nighty dialogue about how haunted houses are passť thanks to gory 80's slasher films). The ghoulies are a lot nastier. But I agree it's not great.

Sorry X-human, the 3rd film is easily the worst of the franchise. Frankly, there are just so many movies like it that are better. Some of them vastly. Bud the Chud, for example, has a very similar sense of humor. Critters 2 has similar monster chaos and is much smarter. And there's a little nudity. Hollywood Chainsaw Hookers is every bit as goofy and yet is actually half-decent. Chopper Chicks in Zombietown while being almost as bad was still better. Munchies. Chopping Mall. Popcorn. Sleepaway Camp III. Dolls. Howling III. Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama.


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And The Descent is a great film!
No, it's garbage. The claustrophobia is a gimmick and it's forced at that, the whole aesthetic and music score is your typical Cut+Paste New Millennium Crap so it doesn't even work on an atmospheric level, the characters are lame, boring when not idiotic, and defined by their looks which unsurprisingly make the women all blend together (which is not good for a movie some people gave credit for being feminist), and the monsters are just about the dumbest looking things I've ever seen in a movie that took itself seriously. I would have laughed, in fact, but again the movie was trying to be serious. There wasn't one thing that worked in that movie.

I'll admit the hype is the reason I'm harder on it than I think I am on movies that made me angrier like Dead Snow and the My Bloody Valentine remake but I'm still pretty sure those films had short moments that worked. Nothing in The Descent worked in the slightest.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:15 AM   #78
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I thought the IVth film was easily the best. Yes, the detective one. Yes, the one with the woman in the black leather catsuit. Yes, the one with the cardboard box fight in a warehouse. Yes, the one with the "hip" "black" "Ghoulie." It was a troubled franchise from the getgo, took awhile for Empire to master their eventual Troll formula (I haven't rewatched the Puppet Master series in a long time but I doubt anyone would call those films great, apart from the 3rd- which even Leonard Maltin said was pretty good).

I don't think the original is very good. I have to admit I've had about 3 different reactions to the movie the 3 times I sat the whole way through it. The first was disappointment, when I saw it on Joe Bob Briggs' MonsterVision. I was about 15 and was expecting it to be about the monsters and instead... it was about a dueling wizard father and son. The second watch I actually liked it and thought it was okay. The third... I wanted to throw something at the television screen. I don't know what happened in the year or two between Viewing #2 and #3 but I'm always inclined to stick with what I thought the last time I see a movie and it was just horrible. I hope we can all agree the film visually looks like crap and the music is not active, memorable, or impressive enough to make up for it. The characters are not interesting or fun. The dialogue is lousy. The story is boring. The effects are hit or miss, mostly miss since the puppets are just terrible. It's not funny, not scary, not smart, and it's only semi-creative.

The 2nd film is easily superior. Why? Better effects. Better music. Better actors. A story with some actual ideas for once (though this is confined to Phil Fondacaro's Fright Nighty dialogue about how haunted houses are passť thanks to gory 80's slasher films). The ghoulies are a lot nastier. But I agree it's not great.

Sorry X-human, the 3rd film is easily the worst of the franchise. Frankly, there are just so many movies like it that are better. Some of them vastly. Bud the Chud, for example, has a very similar sense of humor. Critters 2 has similar monster chaos and is much smarter. And there's a little nudity. Hollywood Chainsaw Hookers is every bit as goofy and yet is actually half-decent. Chopper Chicks in Zombietown while being almost as bad was still better. Munchies. Chopping Mall. Popcorn. Sleepaway Camp III. Dolls. Howling III. Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama.



No, it's garbage. The claustrophobia is a gimmick and it's forced at that, the whole aesthetic and music score is your typical Cut+Paste New Millennium Crap so it doesn't even work on an atmospheric level, the characters are lame, boring when not idiotic, and defined by their looks which unsurprisingly make the women all blend together (which is not good for a movie some people gave credit for being feminist), and the monsters are just about the dumbest looking things I've ever seen in a movie that took itself seriously. I would have laughed, in fact, but again the movie was trying to be serious. There wasn't one thing that worked in that movie.

I'll admit the hype is the reason I'm harder on it than I think I am on movies that made me angrier like Dead Snow and the My Bloody Valentine remake but I'm still pretty sure those films had short moments that worked. Nothing in The Descent worked in the slightest.
Well like I said, I haven't seen Part IV so I can't judge it. However I still believe Part I is more fun (I like the father son angle more than critters at a cheap carnival) than II... and yes, III was absolutely revolting in its humor. I still can't seem to find my video tape of it because I left it in the bathroom next to the toilet paper so it has camouflaged into its surroundings. Granted I haven't seen it in 6 years so my opinion may have changed, but II was so detestable to me that I doubt it would suffer more than that.

As for The Descent, yeah the claustrophobia was a gimmick. There are lots of gimmicky films (Scream for example) but that doesn't mean that they are doomed to die because of it. I liked it, I liked its looks, I liked its characters. This is a matter of opinion though so it really doesn't matter I suppose. I don't think it's garbage. The whole of the film is enticing. The blood soaked survivor and the creatures (hardly worse than most of what I've seen in the 90s and the 00s) worked. Meh.
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:11 PM   #79
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Scream had a hell of a lot more than a gimmick. I'm not going into detail two weeks in a row on why. At least you could tell the women in the film apart from one another.

If you think Ghoulies II is a weaker Critters, you should be appalled at what Ghoulies 1 did to Gremlins. Incidentally, I would agree Critters is superior to Ghoulies II but it's barely half the film Gremlins is. Meanwhile, Ghoulies II is definitely Gremlins at a carnival (remember that the Crites all look exactly the same and the Gremlins and Ghoulies come in different shapes and sizes). And, I've been saying it for years now: Leprechaun is the true remake of Critters. What's more fun than Warwick Davis rollerskating in high-speed pursuit of a runaway, tear-stained, jeepin' Jennifer Aniston (who all these years later still feels like she wandered onto the wrong set)? Oh, and Hot-Wheeling. And skateboarding. And wheelchairing. And pogo-sticking. And... Pot-of-Goldmobile. It's almost musical when you say it right.

Gremlins > Leprechaun > Critters 2 > Ghoulies IV > Critters > Ghoulies II > Ghoulies
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:52 PM   #80
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Should we have a vote for the best of the 7-100 options so it's officially a Top 100?
We could do that. Maybe a poll?

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My only complaint (sorry!) is that some movies got "stacked" by having people vote them #1 or #2. I.E., The Church makes the list with a single vote, yet many movies that got multiple (albeit lower ranked) votes are omitted.
Yeah it's definitely a different way to do it, but I could of like it in that it makes the list a little more interesting. If someone is really passionate about a movie and it is #1 on their list it has a good chance of making the list (Although still lower down on the 100) over some that a bunch of people thought were okay. The list would probably be even more common without doing it this way. And maybe that movie didn't make a lot of people's list because they haven't seen it, so it allows some supposably great films to make it. Again if someone thinks a movie is the best horror film of all time, a pretty bold statement, I have no problem with it making the lower tier of the list over a title that a few others thought was decent. No it's not perfect, buit there really is no perfect way to make a list, unless everyone has seen every single horror film made and can sit in a room and debate for days over the list. Thanks for participating anyways as I know you are not a fan of these, and you were right at least in the top titles being the same old same old. I think there were some surprises though which I will talk about later.

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Fuck, Halloween is #1 again.... T.T...
Yeah, but what can you do. I may be boring, but it's my favourite horror film.

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Yeah, why are there 7 100's?
There are 7 100's because there was a 7 way tie. I didn't think it was my place to just pick which one makes it. I guess we could create a poll or something to decide. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but it would make the list make a little more sense.

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Yeah, I'm a bit confused by the list. For instance, From Beyond and Evil Dead 2 have the same amount of points yet hold different positions. Anyway, it's fun to look through. The alternate list (those films that didn't make the cut) is almost more interesting as there are a number of entries I have not seen.
Yeah, again it's not perfect as unfortunately there were a lot of ties. There just aren't enough people in this forum so there were a lot of ties. That's why I put the number of votes in the list so people can see what got voted what, as I didn't want to have a lot of five way ties listed. I don't think it really matters too much if a film is listed 88 instead of 86, and thankfully the ties didn't happen until #34 I believe. I just left them in whatever order they were in the way I sorted it. Again, it's not a perfect list, especially with the few about of people in this forum. It works a lot better ona forum like Bluray.com where there are a lot more people creating lists and they are also a lot more varied.

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Yeah, I'd almost say that it would be worth changing the math so that every suggestion is equal regardless of placement in any individual's 25. So, if Shining is on three people's lists, it is worth three points. Or maybe that points are based in groups, so 1-5 is worth 5 points, 6-10 is worth 4 points, etc.

Not that I don't appreciate the work done. It's hard to come up with a formula that is fair and this is mighty fine as it is.
Yeah there are many ways to do lists, I just tired this way as again I saw it work pretty well on Bluray.com. I think the problem that mnay have these lists is that they are always pretty much the same old same old. I think doing it the way you suggested would make it even more so. This way allows a few films to sneak in that some people are really passionate about which I think is kind of cool. Again, it's not perfect but I think it makes the list a little more varied, although apparently with all the ties not as much as I had hoped.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:54 PM   #81
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The Collector, The Descent, Blair Witch Project, The Frighteners, Humanoids from the Deep, then Ghoulies.
I would take all of those over Ghoulies myself. Actually those are for the most part all great flicks. Ghoulies 2 on the other hand is a lot of fun! It's funny people are upset Ghoulies made the list though, considering it is tied at spot #100, not a huge deal really.

Oh, and thanks for all the kind words either way guys, and sorry for taking longer then I promised to get it up. Definitely more work then I originally imagined but I'm not complaining as it's fun to check it out. No the list isn't perfect but it's a different way to go about it. In a few years hopefully someone else will try this again with a new way of tackling it, and hopefully some different more varied results. I think it would be cool to do a list that can't include franchises, this would omit a lot of the films you see time and time again such as Halloween, Friday the 13th, Texas Chainsaw, Nightmare, ect.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:38 PM   #82
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I personally feel the list is pretty solid. I would interchange a few titles and the order would be much different (I can't believe Invasion from '78 just made the Top 100!) but there aren't too many films that stand out to me as not belonging or being way higher then they deserve. I think if everyone made a Top 100 you would get rid of a lot of the ties, but that's asking a lot of people. I don't even know if I'd be able to put one together.

I'm surprised to see the lack of Price, Bava, Fulci, Hammer, Black and White, and modern films in the list, and the ones that are there are lower down. Modern films not necessarily because they deserve to be on the list but because usually they are fresh in people's minds. I know that is a problem on the bigger sites like Bluray.com, you get a lot of films that just came out making the list, so I'm happy to see we didn't see too much of that.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:45 PM   #83
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Yeah there are many ways to do lists, I just tired this way as again I saw it work pretty well on Bluray.com. I think the problem that mnay have these lists is that they are always pretty much the same old same old. I think doing it the way you suggested would make it even more so. This way allows a few films to sneak in that some people are really passionate about which I think is kind of cool. Again, it's not perfect but I think it makes the list a little more varied, although apparently with all the ties not as much as I had hoped.
The math is accurate. The one thing I remember from my college math course was this is the best way to rank things without getting into some kind of funky algorithm.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:10 PM   #84
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Well again, I think some people "stacked" the list. I'm NOT naming names. But I mean, they artificially inflated their rankings of a few "pet" films, just so they'd make the list. In other words, they KNEW Halloween would be at or near the top regardless, so why waste a #1 pick (25pts) on it? Instead, they put a film or two that they knew would likely not be on anyone else's list, and put it up higher than even they would personally rank it, just so it would be part of the club.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:21 PM   #85
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Hey, they're all wretchedly awful flicks- so I'm saying the difference is extremely minor.
Well then since you said they are awful, they must be. You don't need to go over the top with your remarks just because you don't see what others do in movies.

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Old 07-09-2013, 07:12 PM   #86
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Scream had a hell of a lot more than a gimmick. I'm not going into detail two weeks in a row on why. At least you could tell the women in the film apart from one another.

If you think Ghoulies II is a weaker Critters, you should be appalled at what Ghoulies 1 did to Gremlins. Incidentally, I would agree Critters is superior to Ghoulies II but it's barely half the film Gremlins is. Meanwhile, Ghoulies II is definitely Gremlins at a carnival (remember that the Crites all look exactly the same and the Gremlins and Ghoulies come in different shapes and sizes). And, I've been saying it for years now: Leprechaun is the true remake of Critters. What's more fun than Warwick Davis rollerskating in high-speed pursuit of a runaway, tear-stained, jeepin' Jennifer Aniston (who all these years later still feels like she wandered onto the wrong set)? Oh, and Hot-Wheeling. And skateboarding. And wheelchairing. And pogo-sticking. And... Pot-of-Goldmobile. It's almost musical when you say it right.

Gremlins > Leprechaun > Critters 2 > Ghoulies IV > Critters > Ghoulies II > Ghoulies
I never mentioned the Critters film(s), hence why I didn't capitalize their name. I just thought it was weak. Also, Leprechaun is boring as shit. Part III was fun though. In my opinion it'd be Gremlins > Ghoulies > Leprechaun > Ghoulies II > Ghoulies III. And that's fine because it's not a fact. Perhaps unlike you I actually can distinguish women on screen in The Descent. I like Scream but if The Descent is solely based on a gimmick then Scream is too. You do not own facts. I thought that the subjective argument made elsewhere against that guy who proclaimed a certain high up film was objectively better in every conceivable way against another showed that you stood by your stance.

Leprechaun is not fun.

There. I stated my opinion in a factual sentence. I assume that you assume that I am referring to opinion. Just like I'm going to assume the structure of your posts recognize subjective viewpoint too...
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