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Old 11-12-2013, 01:39 AM   #106
KGBRadioMoskow
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Originally Posted by maybrick View Post
Put the two together and what do you have? That's right: a SUPERHERO!
I stayed out of this clusterfuck of an argument so far, but Christ on a crutch I've seen that tired arse definition of superhero tossed down like a dead rat onto the discussion table going back longer than I've been alive. And it doesn't smell any better now than it ever did.

The compound word "superhero" has pop culture connotations above and beyond a simple definition splice of its source words. Playing leap frog through the pages of Webster’s isn't going to avoid a simple fact - most people's concept of a "superhero" fits a rather narrow stereotype of genre cliches. And, frankly, Robocop is at best on the fringe of that expectation.

Arguing that "it was in a comic" as evidence is even more ridiculous. Countless book and film properties have comic book adaptions - many with comic exclusive derivative works. By your print media association logic Luke Skywalker is a superhero and Pinhead is a supervillain. Let's put that sinkhole of an argument foundation to rest before anything else tumbles into it.
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:57 AM   #107
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I often wonder if Robocop pees stand up or sitting down.
Does he even go? Lol. I imagine if he did it'd be petrol or something
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:02 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by KGBRadioMoskow View Post
I stayed out of this clusterfuck of an argument so far, but Christ on a crutch I've seen that tired arse definition of superhero tossed down like a dead rat onto the discussion table going back longer than I've been alive. And it doesn't smell any better now than it ever did.

The compound word "superhero" has pop culture connotations above and beyond a simple definition splice of its source words. Playing leap frog through the pages of Webster’s isn't going to avoid a simple fact - most people's concept of a "superhero" fits a rather narrow stereotype of genre cliches. And, frankly, Robocop is at best on the fringe of that expectation.

Arguing that "it was in a comic" as evidence is even more ridiculous. Countless book and film properties have comic book adaptions - many with comic exclusive derivative works. By your print media association logic Luke Skywalker is a superhero and Pinhead is a supervillain. Let's put that sinkhole of an argument foundation to rest before anything else tumbles into it.
I agree. I've never thought of Robocop as a superhero. That's just me though.
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:10 AM   #109
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Of course what's considered a superhero depends upon how broad or how small you want to define it. However, I don't believe that people who don't even READ comics should be the ones to define what a superhero is. That goes for ANY subject. The status quo can believe anything that it wants to, but it doesn't make them correct. It makes them ignorant. Up until Tim Burton's Batman was released most of the mainstream still thought of comics as how they were portrayed in the Batman show of the 60s. Most people thought that they were still kiddy fare and didn't realize that comic books matured substantially during the 70s and early 80s. Robocop was EXTREMELY representative of what was going on in comics at the time (check out the previous year's The Dark Knight Returns which in many ways Robocop appears to rip off) and VERY representative of an 80s era super hero.

And KGB, I put forth a LOT more evidence of it's comic book credentials than just that comic book cover if you decide to go back and read my entire argument as a whole. And if you're going to put forth the idea that pop culture gets a say in defining what a superhero is, then you HAVE to concede that over the course of 20+ years after multiple sequels, comic book series, tv series and Saturday morning cartoon series, that the status quo mainstream america ALREADY accepts Robocop as a Super Hero. Which was my entire point all along.

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Old 11-12-2013, 02:57 AM   #110
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For shits and giggles, I just finished watching Robocop and it occured to me that it really is just a modern update of the origin for Captain America. Steve Rogers was the initial prototype of the Super Soldier program and was supposed to be the first in a long line until the assassination of his creator left the program shelved. Murphy was the initial prototype of what was supposed to be a long line of Robocops until the assassination of his creator shuts the program down.

But never mind. Robocop wasn't influenced by comic books. Not in the slightest.

Last edited by maybrick; 11-12-2013 at 03:00 AM.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:05 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by maybrick View Post
And if you're going to put forth the idea that pop culture gets a say in defining what a superhero is, then you HAVE to concede that over the course of 20+ years after multiple sequels, comic book series, tv series and Saturday morning cartoon series, that the status quo mainstream america ALREADY accepts Robocop as a Super Hero.
Uh, no, once again you seem to be adept at crossing vast chasms using logically illusive bridges. All a multitude of derivative works concede is that mainstream America is interested in the genre and wanted to see more of it. Making the Herculean leap from pop culture fandom to recognition of superhero status is absurd. The former is not in doubt, the latter is at best a fanboy argument starter - which a Google search will show the amount of pop culture non-consensus historical attempts making that assertion has had.

Again, by your logic, the 30+ years of multiple sequels, comic book series, TV spin offs, and cartoons would make Star Wars a superhero franchise. Christ on a pogo stick, the freaking Harlem Globetrotters have performed super human exploits in 40+ years of comic books, TV appearances, movie appearances, and multiple cartoon series. Good luck with that as a foundation.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:18 AM   #112
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Except neither Luke Skywalker nor Harlem Globetrotters fight crime on Earth.

You guys keep saying that he isn't a superhero, but there are far more reasons in support of that definition than there are reasons against. And as near as I can tell, you haven't given any. All you've done is shoot my opinions down.

Last edited by maybrick; 11-12-2013 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:29 AM   #113
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Maybrick's sole argument of Robocop being a Superhero is that part of his inspiration stems from comic book characters, whom of which were never superheros themselves.

By maybrick's logic everything appearing in comic book form is a Superhero. V is a superhero, Tank Girl is a superhero, Uncle Creepy is a superhero, Rick Grimes is a superhero, etc.

http://collider.com/robocop-remake-d...-jose-padilha/

“RoboCop’ is a brilliant premise because the character is not a super-hero,” he said. “He’s a man who’s been transformed by technology for certain purposes. And so that premise alone touches so many interesting subjects. What does it mean to be immersed in automated systems and deprived of free will? What does it mean to be used by corporations for certain purposes? How does the media spin things around to make certain interests accepted by the public? Those are all things you can see in the first ‘RoboCop,’ and those are all things that are coming closer and closer to being real. Science is taking us there. And so that premise alone is really interesting to me.”

Its nice to see not everybody shares the same adolescent vision of Robocop as maybrick. Maybe this guy has a better understanding of the character than what the trailers would lead one to believe.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:34 AM   #114
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Chomp, as I pointed out, Robocop's origin story is the same as the one for Captain America. THE SAME. Only different, because, you know... copyright. Padila can say whatever he wants to. Ignorant people always do. Replace Super Soldiers of the 40s with Super Cops of the 80s and that's all you get. A super hero origin story for the modern era.

Nice to see you back for more "civil" discourse, Chomp. Don't worry. I'll try not to hurt your feelings again.

Last edited by maybrick; 11-12-2013 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:53 AM   #115
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Except neither Luke Skywalker nor Harlem Globetrotters fight crime on Earth.
You were saying something there about fighting crime?....

The Super Globetrotters.

Of course that is an instance where they actually were made into superheroes. Not that their non-super powered incarnations in the earlier cartoon didn't involve some crime fighting as well. Then again, when did the location of the crime fighting - or even that crime is being fought - become a criteria for superhero. Seems you just dismissed the Green Lantern Corps.

But then again, your point was that being in comics, cartoons, TV, and movies was itself evidence of superhero status.

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You guys keep saying that he isn't a superhero, but there are far more reasons in support of that definition than there are reasons against. And as near as I can tell, you haven't given any. All you've done is shoot my opinions down.
You've repeatedly tried to pour an ocean worth of categorization into a bucket worth of definition, and then wonder why not everyone else is ready to set sail on it. You're persisting with the equivalent of arguing a dog is a cat using the common traits of a mammal as the linking points, and then ignoring the blatancy of the over generalization. In light of that situation, it should come as no surprise you would think no one has given any valid reasons.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:07 AM   #116
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Because you can't think of any that's why.

Robocop is just a creative cut and paste of Captain America. Instead of enhancing the human body using advanced medicine, they used advanced robotics. Instead of the 40s, they used the 80s. Instead of Nazis, they used corporate executives. Otherwise the plots are identical. Robocop even has a Bucky that nearly gets herself killed by the movies own version of the Red Skull. Keep telling me you can't see that now that I've pointed it out.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:10 AM   #117
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Judging by the fact that we never see superheroes urinate, I am of the opinion that Robocop fits that description.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:24 AM   #118
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The Globetrotters are also real people. Superheroes don't exist. Therefore...

And I never once said that being in comics or cartoons by itself made somebody a superhero. But taken in tandem with the other data as a whole, it helps to supports the larger argument. Robocop may or may not have began life as one, but that is certainly what he turned into. Batman wasn't a superhero at first either. It took time for that to happen.

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Then again, when did the location of the crime fighting - or even that crime is being fought - become a criteria for superhero. Seems you just dismissed the Green Lantern Corps.
Missed this last night. The Corps is a military organization. You can't call them heroes because their personalities are all much too varied to call them all heroes. Some are, but a lot of them most definitely are not. Their only link together is that they all have great willpower and were all drafted in. Nobody joined by choice, although they all stayed by choice. Hal Jordan and the rest of Earth's Green Lantern are considered superheroes because the routinely perform heroic duties (like being a member of the Justice League) that have nothing to do with the Corps and in fact often fly in the face of the Guardian's wishes. Hal Jordan was recently kicked out of the Corp for defying their orders for the greater good.

Last edited by maybrick; 11-12-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:17 AM   #119
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This is one weird argument. However, that ain't gonna stop me from getting involved.

Really just wanted to point out that Robocop definitely fits Joseph Campbell's definition of a "hero". So, I guess the question is whether or not he's super.

As for peeing, technically he does take in food, which would require a method of processing and expelling waste. So, there must be a waste product. As to it's method of expulsion, I'll leave that to greater minds.
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:01 PM   #120
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This is one weird argument.
It IS a weird argument, and one that certainly would have ended days ago had certain individuals simply allowed me to believe that Robocop is a superhero and just let it slide.

Hey, if you don't want to call Robocop a superhero then more power to you. But if you can't see the ways that he might possibly fit that description for others, then excuse me for saying, but that is simply being arrogant. You may not like the way it's being defined, but that says more about your own personal biases than it does about the definition itself. It's like being one of those people who call certain films psychological thrillers because they refuse to admit to liking a horror movie.

Last edited by maybrick; 11-12-2013 at 01:33 PM.
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