Rob Zombies Halloween III

Discussion in 'General' started by Bobbywoodhogan, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    As a group, we could probably argue forever about whether or not Boll's films trump Zombie's (for me they do). But I don't think there's any argument about who would be more fun to hang out with.





    Boll is a seriously funny dude.
     
  2. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    Halloween checks off a lot of the Grindhouse boxes. Extremely low budget, exploitation of nudity and violence, regional theatrical touring with low print runs instead of a wide release, and of course it's a genre film made in the 70's. Even playing the well made and artistic exception card for Halloween doesn't get you very far because art house films made those same Grindhouse runs. So the argument boils down to true Grindhouse means ineptly made and without merit.

    But if that same argument is that Rob Zombie imbued his Halloween with Grindhouse attributes, in a way that Carpenter's Halloween didn't, that basically argues that the difference maker is that Zombie's Halloween is ineptly made and without merit. Which most people can agree with it seems.
     
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  3. othervoice1

    othervoice1 Well-Known Member

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    I had listened to some of his new album and it sounded pretty good - didn't seem like a huge change from past stuff. But I didnt listen to all of it - just about 3 songs
     
  4. buck135

    buck135 Kanamit

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    His songs just don't have any real structure anymore. I'm probably just getting too old.
     
  5. Mok

    Mok Family is Forever

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    No worries I wasnt trying to single you out. I was juss sayin. But I suspect people see the name and go in with arms folded and furowed brows.

    Pee dot Esss Im going to see him play this summer! ;)

    Edit: But I'm not a rabbid super fan. Let me make that clear. I hated superbeasto and havent bought/listened to any of his music in a long time. I just kinda know the show will be fun lest anyone think I'll like anything he does.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  6. buck135

    buck135 Kanamit

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    No worries. I first saw White Zombie open for Testament in a tiny club in the early nineties right before they hit it big. They were amazing. Once he went solo, the entertainment value of the shows helped over compensate for his inability to sing consistently (running all over the stage doesn't help).

    I must say that the anger regarding Rob Zombie is nothing compared to what Zach Snyder received while remaking Dawn. That died down after the film won many people over. Comic book fans give Zach a harder time now than horror fans ever gave Rob for Halloween.
     
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  7. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    I always thought that the slasher genre itself was very "grindhouse" with the explicit sex and violence. Most of them are bad, Halloween just happens to be good. I think it's in the same realm as The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It's only over time that these films gained the respect that they have. They were absolutely considered grindhouse when they came out. Assault on Precinct 13 is another, as is Escape From New York. They have that grindhouse vibe to them. It's just that John Carpenter is (or at least was) a good filmmaker. Skillful filmmaking brought these films above the bulk.

    Just because it's grindhouse doesn't mean it's bad. You can't define a type of film in a single dictionary definition. It doesn't have to fit an extremely specific mould.

    ~Matt
     
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  8. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    Not as badly as the Saw series.

    Unless you're watching the R-rated theatrical versions of his films, his editing never crushes down or compresses his style. I do think it takes patience to engage with him but it inevitably pays to try.


    I would describe Halloween as the Carnival of Souls of the 1970's. Its venue is unmistakably grindhouse due to its budget and the nature of how it was critically shunned, especially by the asshole film school / college crowd in preview screenings, but its filmmaking intentions couldn't be further away from mere cheap thrills. (Not that I care about taxing what other people find thrilling. I just think some films hold what they're doing as a higher standard.)


    You can certainly take my name down from the I Hate Rob Zombie wall. And I still hate everything I hated 5 years ago when I became this board's in-house villain. (You can all un-ignore me now, I think the demon is finally gone.) Re-watches are extraordinarily kind to this man's work.

    Millennial grindhouse doesn't exist, it's all just fan tip-of-the-hat. And I think I've actually seen a lot less than most on this board- I look more for artful schlock than I do exploitation. Which (the latter) there's already plenty of in the action genre. And is so much easier to make with nonexistent budgets and whatever passed for talent scouting before the Lionsgate's and Platinum Dunes' of the industry began sniffing through film school's underwear drawer. Rob Zombie is a horror fan who doesn't know how to make a horror movie, but he's so damn close. He's actually a 100% genuine arthouse filmmaker. No experimentation labels necessary. He's not trying and failing- he's succeeding. He'd already mastered his 'craft' by The Devil's Rejects. Though this is not a horror film, it still drudged up some incredibly powerful emotions. Which is also something he's good at. I don't like his stories at all. I would choose every character action and reaction radically-differently, but I can't say he ever let himself down. He shoots bad ideas so well that his films aren't really Bad at all. His film language is shockingly the mirror opposite of what happened to Carpenter in the late 80's. When his cynicism poisoned his brain and he stopped giving a shit about making bad movies. (Argue all you want but I'll never agree that Prince of Darkness and They Live aren't lousy.) Rob Zombie, compared to Carpenter, is a walking heart on a stick. Kind of horror's Tim Burton- thematically, not stylistically. He balls over his own antagonists. Whereas I think most of us are looking for horror to stick to a straight and narrow: evil is evil format. I certainly would never have advised Zombie to model his remake's first half of Carpenter's masterpiece after the Rodney Dangerfield scene in Natural Born Killers. His decisions make no sense, but the guy knows exactly what to do with a camera.


    Graphic?
     
  9. Egg_Shen

    Egg_Shen broomhead

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    Here's a brief interview with Carpenter. He basically says the series has strayed from the original concept and we should expect the next one to be more like the first. Also, that he's really just there so people can point to his name and he can collect a paycheck. I love his candor about something that's still in the works. Hopefully he does do the score. It seems likely considering his recent musical success.

     
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  10. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    According to Rob Zombie himself, he's not a director who story boards and then sets up scenes with the Director of Photography. He has the DoP set up master 360 lighting and that single lighting setup is all they use and then scenes are performed like a play with camera men capturing it like a documentary in cinema verite style.

    I don't think I'll be able to find the interview with Zombie himself I have in mind, but here's an interview with his DoP which touches on the same points: https://www.theasc.com/magazine/aug05/devils/page1.html

    The DoP says HE originally called the blocking but then even he stopped doing so and HE let the Camera A and Camera B men setup their own shots because they were doing so well. And this is where the MTV style plays in. It's cheap/fast capture the moment style found in a lot of reality TV shows like Real World. It even sounds like the DoP was the main one watching the playback screens. I wouldn't be surprised if Zombie stayed close to set out of camera view coaching the actors instead (before playback that's what directors did anyways).

    Which is fine, many of the greatest directors focus only on the actor's performance (often coming from a stage background) and leave all the shot setups to the camera crew. But, basically, Rob didn't shoot his "bad ideas" well at all. He left it to the professionals.

    For my part, Zombieween is that awful emo angst kid I tried desperately tried to avoid in high school up to and including the bagel incident. From that point on it becomes a fair mediocre modern slasher that I don't really have any specific problems with. It does do a nice job focusing on set pieces, and I give full credit to Zombie for that. It's part 'n parcel with documentary style where you shoot as much as you can (too much basically) and figure it all out in the editing room afterwards. Everything is milked for what it's worth. So I'm sure during on set rehearsals Zombie drew out ideas from actors, SFX/stunt men and camera men to improvise set pieces and then a few dry runs to inform and practice where best the camera men should be; then do it live. At best two chances, but I'm figuring they do most of these in one take.

    It would have been interesting to see how this approach would have worked in something as SFX heavy as the proposed remake of The Blob would have been. But I rather suspect a big reason why Zombie walked away was the fact that he couldn't do it in this way. You have to do a shit ton of prep work for any CGI or practical effects. If you don't story board, you can't budget, and if you can't budget an effects heavy movie no producer's going to greenlight it.
     
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  11. Mok

    Mok Family is Forever

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    That is interesting x-human
     
  12. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'd say the murder of the little girl is definitely graphic. She gets shot point blank in the chest. Not only that but it's pretty rare to see a child die in a movie.

    The death of Alex Kintner in Jaws also stands out as being particularly graphic.

    I think it's just shocking when a child dies in a movie.

    ~Matt
     
  13. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    Carpenter discussed this in the commentary track. The MPAA demanded that he cut this scene to get an "R" rating. So he did, showed them the edited version, got his seal, and then put the scene back in for distribution. He never heard a word about it.
     
  14. soxfan666

    soxfan666 Well-Known Member

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    I, for one, hope Rob Zombie continues to make both music and film. I just saw him for the second time a month ago. On stage his voice is lacking what you get on album, but his shows are 100% fun and entertaining. His imagery and movement are great cause it looks like he loves what he does, loves the crowd, and wants to be there. I have been to too many shows where the lead singer seems annoyed to perform for my dollar.

    Movie wise I will take more Zombie. Does he miss the mark many times? YES! But, he hits it too! I think corpses left much to be desired, but I love Rejects. Both Halloweens were underwhelming, but I did enjoy that he went for it on his own! Lords of Salem is a great film! I've watched numerous times and it gets better with each viewing.

    In this age of cheap digital cameras leading to a million shitty netflix streams I love having a vision like Zombies that (even when it sucks) has some style to it.

    He at the very least leads to discussion and that is something that is needed and important.
     
  15. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    Yes, but, you would really use the word "graphic" for a child's death merely because it's a child? I don't think anyone would call that scene graphic if the same sequence featured an adult dying.


    I know that. I'm well-aware that directors usually don't do their own editing, cinematography, sound mixing, casting, wardrobe, etc. The film industry would be a lot smaller if they did. I used a shorthand expression to fill in the blanks of the people who were his directors of photographer, camera operators, editors, etc. because I think all his films look amazing / do a great job of drawing me in (therefore he at least has a good eye and I was right there), I didn't know all their names and thought it was pointless to look them up while in the middle of trying to make an argument.

    I didn't know ahead of time that anyone would have a problem with what I was saying. I thought the general atmosphere of this thread was "I enjoy Zombie's films even when I dislike what he did with Halloween." And I thought I expressed quite clearly that I didn't like his ideas either. But I'll be damned if the film didn't impress me in spite of how much I didn't agree with it. It did. Sue me for not being semantically perfect. You can handle all that mess yourself, I like the idea of finally getting to enthusiastically apologize for a millennial figure in horror that people seem to have so many issues with. I'm not sure what he does that ropes me in, but I think it's art and I can't wait to see his next movie. I deserve the chance to say "I can't wait" for a millennial movie.


    I agree. For the record, I will repeat myself: I didn't like his ideas for the remake. That includes the portrayal of the killer, the fact that he feels we need to give him a genesis in the first place (at no point does it even explain why he fuck he's monster-sized and can survive so much damage), and Laurie Strode's re-characterization.


    I disagree on it being a slasher. The closest thing the millennium still has to slashers, post-maybe-2001, imho, is Final Destination. Which very seldomly employs any degree of shakycam. We really don't have slashers anymore and if we did, they would have to play by the rule of Whodunit. But we know who did it in Zombie's films. Every one of them, if I'm not mistaken.


    You don't think Lords of Salem was a departure from a style like this? More, slightly, akin to someone like Ti West - for example?
     
  16. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'd say it's graphic specifically because, well, it's a child's death. I don't see how it isn't graphic. She's shot in the chest and they don't exactly shy away with the blood. Obviously it wouldn't be considered as graphic if it were an adult. How often do you see children die in movies? Not often. For audiences in general I think it comes across very differently when it's a child who dies as opposed to an adult. It's way more brutal and ruthless when you kill a kid in a movie I think.

    Even Alex's death in Jaws is graphic for exactly the same reasons. That and there's a huge splash of blood. Kids are also usually spared in horror films.

    ~Matt
     
  17. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    To me that's a special exception. I don't see there being a rule. To me, graphic is either graphic for all or not.

    And the scene I saw in the film I watched, the 1976 John Carpenter film, there might have been red in the shot but the camera didn't really linger on it. Not in the version I watched. Someone's going to have to link me the version I didn't see.
     
  18. MisterTwister

    MisterTwister The Schlock King

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    To get this bitch back on track....

    I was excited for Marcus Dunstan's Halloween film but this will do (especially if Adam Wingard ends up directing it) Carpenter coming back to score it is pretty rad. I just want more Myers on the big screen.

    Also I find some of the Zombieween hate to be a little too over the top. I get why people hate both of them I just find some of that hate to be pretty ridiculous. I always viewed those films as separate entities...unlike Resurrection which attaches itself to the original franchise like a parasite from hell.

    And please don't see my above comment as an invitation to discuss the subject. I really don't care what some fangirl who weeps uncontrollably in his replica Halloween II mask because Zombie ruined his so called "perfect franchise" thinks.

    Unless you're Zombie Dude or a few other people. I'd discuss it with them.
     
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  19. Mok

    Mok Family is Forever

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    Yes, EXACTLY!!! To me its as far and safetly its own thing as Hammer vs Universal's monster films.
     
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  20. Myron Breck

    Myron Breck Boom Shanka

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    That's a great way of looking at it. I hated Zombie's movies when they came out (the 2nd one was a bit better, I thought) but I still bought the box set and the Canadian bluray with the theatrical versions (it seemed like most of the people who like them prefer those versions). LOL! I fully plan on giving them another shot at some point; until then, THEY FUCKING SUCK!!!!!! :)
     
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