The "Torture Porn" Debate Poll

Discussion in 'General' started by Ash28M, Mar 27, 2009.

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the great "Torture Porn" Debate

  1. I hate that term. It's condescending to genre fans.

    20.0%
  2. I don't mind it, it doesn't bother me.

    53.7%
  3. I love the term. The name fits.

    26.3%
  1. Rockmjd

    Rockmjd Guest

    I'm interested in hearing your opinion on the original.
     
  2. BrokeNads

    BrokeNads New Member

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    I dont understand about this torture porn because said to movies like Saw and Hostel because the violence is strong. I see the Saw movies and Hostel movies and when I think about this movies I dont remember about the violence and I remember stories. I like Saw because stuture the way the story made and I think about Saw 3 and how is the father to make choise about to revenge the murder of the son and Hostel I think about this story and how is maybe in some country maybe is a place like this to kill people and this make me more aware open to think about morals and topics for justice. Violence from this movie is how I think about less because the strong topics to make you think about the issue. Some times the strong violence make you take attention to think about topics difrent ways to pull you.
    I talk to my friend about pornos and he talk about the question why the pornos is legal and prostitute is not legal because is the same. To give sex for money. Why is the diffrence is because is put in the video. So you can go for a prostitute and do the sex action and when comes the police to make you under arrest you show the camera and tell to them no we make a porno and every thing is ok? This is a diffrent topic and is one I talk to my friend before but is how you look to this from diffrent ways. Some times the people say is porno and say others is prostituting and some times torture porn is the message not for violence.
     
  3. allmessedup

    allmessedup It's beer time.

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    BTW, I don't view the term as being any different than "slasher movie," which was originally a negative term used by horror-hating critics. Nobody bats an eye at it today, and I figure in 10-15 years people will be the same way about "torture porn."
     
  4. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    I don't remember horror fans ever using the the term slasher as negative term, that's the difference.
     
  5. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    It kindof was a negtive term - well...it was "associated" with a negative viewpoint on films of this type - until it was theorized by people like Vera Dika and (famously) by Carol Clover in her essay about slasher films, called "Her Body, Himself". That's when people began to realize there was something there. I'm not 100% sure tho whether it was horror-hating critics who coined the term. Hell, it might have been Clover. Dika constantly refers to them as "stalker" films. So, I don't think the term actually came to fruition until around the time these two theorists analyzed these films (which was the early '90s - 1990 I think for Dika and 1992 I believe for Clover).

    Dika's book "Games of Terror: Halloween, Friday the 13th and Films of the Stalker Cycle" and Clover's book "Men, Women and Chainsaws: Gender in the Modern Horror Film" really put slasher films into context. They (especially Clover) make some really interesting points about slasher films.

    ~Matt
     
  6. allmessedup

    allmessedup It's beer time.

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    I recall Siskel and Ebert using the term negatively during the late 70s/very early 80s.

    I don't see any real difference in the terms, they both give a simple description to their particular subgenre--another similarity is that the slasher films had pretty much the same criticisms in their day. I don't consider the term "torture porn" negative, although I agree with the idea that using the word "porn" makes the movies sound more interesting than they actually are.
     
  7. allmessedup

    allmessedup It's beer time.

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    BTW, didn't realize I had already posted the same point much earlier in the thread. Sorry.
     
  8. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    Well Ebert and especially Siskel and are pretty far from being horror fans. I wouldn't even call Torture porn a sub genre it's a catch phrase. I wouldn't want to introduce horror films to my kid and have to explain to them the Porn reference in the "torture porn sub genre". Not only is it a derogatory term toward those particular films, it's a derogatory term towards horror fans themselves. It's saying we are perverts who sit in our mothers basements in our underwear watching people get tortured and waking off. You may think that's ridiculous but that's what ignorant non horror fans are saying when they use that term. Reading Anthropophagus comments just goes to show you that there are even horror fans that buy into their theory.

    Saying that I really don't care what non horror fans think but when a horror fan uses that term it just makes me cringe.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  9. crikan

    crikan Well-Known Member

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    Ya, how do you explain to a child what porn is right before you show them a movie with genital mutilation and forced self-amputation. That could be uncomfortable. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  10. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    Well obviously you wouldn't show them some of the more violent horror films at a younger age. I'm talking about when you show them Frankenstein for the first time and your are telling them about Boris Karloff and how he fits in to the History of Horror films and they turn around and ask "Dad what's torture porn".
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  11. Mok

    Mok Family is Forever

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    Watching Ichi the Killer for the first time. It's pretty much a "torture porn" XD

    For me, the substance lies more in seeing the Japanese locals and the odd cinematography. The sadomasochism is a little over-indulged, but I'm enjoying it for what it is.

    On a side note, anyone who likes the game "No More Heros" on the Wii should check this film out. I'm seeing a lot of influence here. Plus, Mike apparently voices one of the characters in the sequel.
     
  12. Iron Jaiden

    Iron Jaiden New Member

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    Agreed completely. I don't expect your average dumb ass frat boy to understand the subtleties of sub-genre classification or the desire to be scared in make-believe-land without the accompanying desire to jerk off watching a decapitation. I wouldn't expect that kind of thoughtful comprehension anymore than I would expect the same frat boy to understand the distinction between date rape and consensual sex. I would, however, like to think that us gorehounds can agree that what appears on screen is a work of fiction and as such is protected under the cosmic law that states "if you can imagine it, no matter how depraved, it's worth seeing what other people think of your idea".
    One man's Human Centipede is another man's Saw. One man's Saw is another man's Friday The 13th. One man's Friday the 13th is another man's Eyes of Laura Mars. One man's Eyes of Laura Mars is another man's Psycho. As intelligent genre fans we really do need to up our game a bit and resist any and all temptation to allow some sort of moral barometer to define the art form.
    "This crap is just torture porn and the people who like it are sickos..." is one offense shy of concluding "... and it should be banned!"
    That slope is slippery my friends, tread with caution. :glasses:
     
  13. crikan

    crikan Well-Known Member

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    I love how frat guys and sorority girls think they're so special, yet outside of their little group they are constantly derided as dumb-asses and deviants.
     
  14. Criswell

    Criswell New Member

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    I think you need to really analyse the term. The inclusion of the word PORN implies a type of gratification. Hence the focus on the gore and closeup of such is being compared to the 'money shot' of the porn genre. As such i fully agree. To me the core word for consideration is CONTEXT.

    I love Zombie films for example, not only because of the themes, set-up etc but because it allows for some good old fashioned unbridled bloodletting in a fashion that allows visceral enjoyment without guilt. A bloodless, goreless Zombie film? Pointless.

    To films like Saw, Hostel etc are totally devoid of this. You could easily re-cut these films to eliminate 90% of the gore and probably make the films better. But how many of its fans would go to see them? And would the films plots stand up to scrutiny without the gore?

    I referenced Taxi Driver in an earlier post. Taking the porn reference further, the violence there by Travis.... a porn watcher.... is indeed the money shot of the film, the literal climax to the film and story. As such, each of the graphic killings in Saw as climaxes to scenes reminiscent to porn films. The bathory scene is Saw 2 explicitly highlights this. Her climax like the audiences comes when the throat? is slit and the blood flows.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  15. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    The thing is it doesn't matter if you think the names fits or not. When most people use that term there are not thinking of the intellectual parallels. They are thinking; if you enjoy those films you must enjoy things like those beheading video's or that video that surfaced a while ago of those two kids killing that man with a bat. Now of course anyone who thinks that ate paint chips as a kid and now can't differentiate between fiction and reality, intern making them the dangerous ones. That's an irony the average Fox news viewer doesn't understand.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  16. Iron Jaiden

    Iron Jaiden New Member

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    Yeah I'm gonna agree with Ash on this one. You clearly have an interesting a completely valid take on the idea of the nature of "porn" but the context in which the term is used by genre detractors is almost always negative and ignorant. As fans we really gotta turn those stupid notions on their heads and present our little corner of the movie world as the amazingly fun and creative force it is.
     
  17. Criswell

    Criswell New Member

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    Oh i dont disagree at all.

    In many ways the media and its ill-informed rantings are also to blame.

    Take Rambo. How many 80's 90's shootings were called "Rambo Styled massacres" after the first film was released? The reality is, Rambo killed 1 person and that guy was trying to kill him from a chopper. But it was an easy hook and a lable that was not properly researched.
     
  18. wago70

    wago70 Surviving on nostalgia

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    I finally watched the SAW films this past month. I was put off by the geek-show marketing where the posters looked like a cross between the opening credits of "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" and an autopsy scene from "Silence of the Lambs". However, nothing of this flavor is really in the films. I just figured it was lurid, dank (but glossy) flick that was edited to death like a music video so it would freak you out.
    Well, I found the first film to be an intriguing police thriller. I do admit that the traps in the following films are a bit too elaborate for said villian(s) to be pulling off. I don't buy one bit of it. The over editing of some scenes are irritating beyond imagination as you can't get a good look at the some of their situation. Otherwise, I enjoyed the films, just put off by their ads. I also don't feel these are horror films at all. They are more like wild police thrillers.
     
  19. Iron Jaiden

    Iron Jaiden New Member

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    Yeah the music-video-hyper-cut editing of the sequels really turned me off on the whole franchise. I also tend to like my gore mixed with clever humor but the way these films are hacked (pun intended) together just makes them so unappealing to me. What ever happened to those gorgeous John Carpenter wide shots or those flawlessly framed crazy angles Argento did so well?

    Gimme back my heroes hollywood! :fire:
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  20. DVD-fanatic-9

    DVD-fanatic-9 And the Next Morning, When the Campers Woke Up...

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    The music video aspect to the sequels was those filmmakers announcing what this franchise really is - cheap flashy garbage for kids who think that's extreme.


    From your mouth to the horror-Gods ears...

    Hope springs eternal, I hear.
     

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